Members Daneswede1 Posted October 16, 2005 Members Share Posted October 16, 2005 I posted this in the amp forum room but lately it seems the people in there are more interested in talking about each other s social lives i.e. whos cooler than the next guy? Kind of confusing to me when this forum is supposed to be based on information=power right>? Anyway, I own a Marshall 2203x JCM 800 reissue 100 watt head and a BOgner Uberschall. I am retubing both. AS far as the BOgner I called BOgner direct and for some reason they practically mandate me using the JJ Tesla EL34s- AS far as the preamp tubes they use CHinese 12ax7s which seem to be a popular choice amongst the Marshall users as wel so ill let that amp go with those tubes and ponder over my Marshall. Heres the confusion. THe NOS tubes are very very expensive as of late. After you find a reputable company that offers a 90 day warranty and tests the tubes fore microphonics, gas leakage, noise and plate current when matching them up ( I recommend you get the matched tubes) you must then find the best tube for your amp. Impossible without testing every kind of NOS tube in your own amp>? Most definitely! Well I researched the web and found a couple websites that did this test themselves at least with the NOS tubes. THey Tested the TELEFUNKEN RIBBED PLATE 12ax7s-AMPEREX BUGLE BOYS and OLD SCRPIT LOGO-TUNGSOL-MAZDA-RCA BLACK PLATES. THe winner? The Telefunken. While having slightly less drive than the AMperex and not quite the accentuated mids as the other tubes this Telefunken RIbbed plate was a very musical sounding tube with brilliant highs and nice lows. THe tubes added a 3 dimensional sound to the amp (A magnatone something?) Had 1 12ax7 and one 6v6? ANyway I am now thinking of buying 3 of these Telefunken NOS tubes at $60.00 each which comes to $180.00! COmpared to $60.00 for some new 12ax7 of many variety. WHat to do? Actually the tubes in my Marshall that came with the head when it was shipped sound pretty good themselves? I am so confused? Should I get the NOS? Should I get new? Which tube should I get? SOMEONE SHOULD WRITE A BOOK ON THIS! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members stratsyndrome Posted October 16, 2005 Members Share Posted October 16, 2005 i agree, someone should write a book! Tubes have always confused me mainly because I don't have the time or energy to learn on my own - and the tube sellers websites are helpful, but it would be nice to have one neutral source for info . . . It would be cool if they wrote a book like they do for effects with a CD so you can actually hear the difference with different tubes in different amps. I've got a Chinese, Tesla/SS, Tungsram and Mullard in my Major . . . but with this amp its hard to hear the difference between pre-amp tubes. I'm getting ready to retube both the Major and the Blackmore and this time I'd like to stock up on something different rather than just go with the old standbys for me - the JJs or ARS (dist). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members The Gainster Posted October 16, 2005 Members Share Posted October 16, 2005 I have many old tubes..... Amperex sound amazing in V1 of any amp.... A cool trick for ya... Put an Amperex ( or 12ax7 of your choice ) in V1 and EH 12ax7's in the rest of your amp...V1 is your "tone" slot so to speak. It is a good way to save money and retube your amp well. Ebay is a great source for these tubes. I have RCA, Amperex and Telefunken tubes, and always seem to like the Amperex tone. M Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members The Gainster Posted October 16, 2005 Members Share Posted October 16, 2005 Just a side note...and my opinion only...but I really don't like the JJ tubes. Too bright. EH is selling really good tubes! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Daneswede1 Posted October 16, 2005 Author Members Share Posted October 16, 2005 Originally posted by The Gainster Just a side note...and my opinion only...but I really don't like the JJ tubes. Too bright. EH is selling really good tubes! Are the EH tubes your talking about new or NOS . Also I assume you mean the 12ax7s. Well, I dont know about the overly bright sound of the JJs. I have them in my Uberschall and they sound pretty good. A buddy of mine has them in his Marshall 1984 circa combo 2x12" 100 watt. He also had his tech put JJs in the preamp to but thats not something I would do. Eight now im thinking of the NOS Siemens EL34s for my Marshall and the Telefunken RIbbed plates NOS for the preamp. Then for my Uberschall Bogner - They tell me(BOgner tech) that the JJ Teslas are recommended for this amp I guess because they can handle the high gain nature of the amp or the rep from JJ Tesla took the president of bogner out to lunch and made him a deal he couldnt refuse.! Thanks for the info about the EH 12ax7s ! Ill think that one through and do some more research! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Daneswede1 Posted October 16, 2005 Author Members Share Posted October 16, 2005 Im gonna try that with the AMperex or the Telefunken in the V1 slot! Both the Amperex Old Script Logo and the Telefunken ribbed plate came in the top 2 slots in this website where they tried a bunchx of differant NOS tubes out in a n old Magnavo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Demented Avenger Posted October 16, 2005 Members Share Posted October 16, 2005 Every tube "shootout" that I read has a different winner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Daneswede1 Posted October 16, 2005 Author Members Share Posted October 16, 2005 Originally posted by Jakeowen Every tube "shootout" that I read has a different winner. Yeah, YOur right. As i have heard else where it comes down to what sounds best with your particular amp. I just dont have the money to spend on 50 sets of NOS tubes .! DO you? I try to ask the NOS tube sellers who is buying what and just generally ask around. I think for my Marshall JCM 800 I am gonna try the Amperex OLD SCRIPT LOGO in the V1 slot and 2 EH 12ax7s. THat will do. Then Siemens EL34s (rft) NOS for the power section. THey were the tubes that were used in the early eighties Marshalls til the supply ran dry. THe more I research this tube thing the more confused I get. A decision has to be made some where along the line! Or I might try the RFT 12ax7s although I dont even know what those are yet. I posted in the other room and a NOS tube seller mentioned this! THe beat goes on! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Godin73 Posted October 16, 2005 Members Share Posted October 16, 2005 I've been buying a LOT of used, but good old stock pre amp tubes and I tested 'em all. I experienced that there are terribly many differences between all the brands and then still in brands themselves (like Siemens). Point is: you can't just say: this or that is the best tube. There are tubes that accentuate bass, accentuate highs.....it's just TOO much. In modern production, there are huge quality differences too. Like, Gainster mentions the JJ's to be too bright sounding, but the ones I heard and used in my Rivera's were too dark sounding and the EH's were a bit too bright. That's not just about our ears, but it can easily be a totally different sounding batch. And that sucks I can totally underline his remark in getting a good tube for V1 and fit ordinary tubes in the rest. That does a lot. In some amps, however, depending on the way their gain is built up (so depending on the layout of the pre amp) V2 could play a big role in an overdrive channel. So for your Bogner, I'd check the pre amp lay out. One thing that I really like was some Mullards. Bright, but not harsh. Just very clear and BIG sounding. Unrivalled for crunch. Hope this helps ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Daneswede1 Posted October 17, 2005 Author Members Share Posted October 17, 2005 Originally posted by Godin73 I've been buying a LOT of used, but good old stock pre amp tubes and I tested 'em all. I experienced that there are terribly many differences between all the brands and then still in brands themselves (like Siemens). Point is: you can't just say: this or that is the best tube. There are tubes that accentuate bass, accentuate highs.....it's just TOO much. In modern production, there are huge quality differences too. Like, Gainster mentions the JJ's to be too bright sounding, but the ones I heard and used in my Rivera's were too dark sounding and the EH's were a bit too bright. That's not just about our ears, but it can easily be a totally different sounding batch. And that sucks I can totally underline his remark in getting a good tube for V1 and fit ordinary tubes in the rest. That does a lot. In some amps, however, depending on the way their gain is built up (so depending on the layout of the pre amp) V2 could play a big role in an overdrive channel. So for your Bogner, I'd check the pre amp lay out. THat makes total sence when you say one batch of the exact same tube type can and do sound differant than the next. My friend just had JJ Tesla EL34s and JJ Tesla 12ax7s put in his Marshall JCM 800 combo from 1984 and in my opinion it is too dark as well contrary to what gainster mentioned about the JJs being to bright for him so its a crap shoot and that is unfortunate. As far as my BOgner it has four preamp tubes for gain ad n2 preamp tubes of which one controls the effects loop and the other i am unsure? I dont knwo what im gonna do? I think every time I post I pick something new. It makes sence again when you say put something like a good NOS Mullard or RFT or whatever in the V1 slot and then just some regular new tubes in the other slots. THink ill just go with that and save some money. I am still gonna take a chance on the SIemens though. I remember years ago when I was running my JCM 800s they had the SIemens in them which came with the amps stock from the factory. A good tube. Ill just pray the batch I get will be like that. SO that is what I guess is gonna be my choice for the marshall. THe BOgner I dont know yet what im gonna do for that. Im gonna call BOgner tomorrow and just see one more time what tubes they stock all there amps that leave the factory with? Ill play it by ear. I want to know hwy they are so adament on JJ teslas for the power section. THansk for the info. At least you have been through many of these NOS tubes abd you seem to know a lot . THanks One thing that I really like was some Mullards. Bright, but not harsh. Just very clear and BIG sounding. Unrivalled for crunch. Hope this helps ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Fourth Floor Posted October 17, 2005 Members Share Posted October 17, 2005 I like to support current production tubes, so they keep making them. I've tried Mullards, and while they're good, they're not that good. Personally, in my Fenders I've favoured EH and lately JJs in the preamp and the new Svetlanas in the power amp. Love the Svet 6L6s. To me, these kill Sovteks and stock Groove Tubes (Sovteks?) and certainly any Chinese tubes I've had. For a rectifier, in the long run it might pay to get a killer NOS tube. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Seth Carmody Posted October 17, 2005 Members Share Posted October 17, 2005 Can't claim to have tried many NOS tubes, but I've found old used Sylvanias, RCA, GE sound a lot better than current run Groove Tubes (relabelled Sovteks) and can usually be had for less than the cost of replacement Sovtek on the bay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members boseman Posted October 17, 2005 Members Share Posted October 17, 2005 I suppose I don't understand it much, but I was never one for calling a tube, "creamy when overdriven." It just sounds wrong. I'll blame all of my tone on me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Overload Posted October 17, 2005 Members Share Posted October 17, 2005 ...and to make matters much worse, even two tubes of the same brand and model, sound different. Maybe it's about how much use they've had but you can hear a difference. Have any of you tried to substitute 12AX7 with 5751? They have a little less gain but sound sweet for sure! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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