Members DancingApe Posted July 23, 2006 Members Share Posted July 23, 2006 I tried a Minimax ASB for the first time yesterday and i got the experience that this was the actually the first synthesizer that really could be called "Virtual Analogue" Outstanding sound. At the same time it seems no one talks about it wich really confuses me now when i know what a great instrument it is. So now i want to know if this is because it is disliked or simply because no one have had experience with one yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members BillyWa Posted July 23, 2006 Members Share Posted July 23, 2006 I voted no. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Rauzi Posted July 23, 2006 Members Share Posted July 23, 2006 It's probably because the market is already flooded with said "virtual analogue" software. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted July 23, 2006 Share Posted July 23, 2006 They are a lot of money for what you get since a complete VA keyboard can be bought for less. A lower price would equal more sales. More owner's could mean more internet chat. FYI. The price has kept me away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members mrcpro Posted July 23, 2006 Members Share Posted July 23, 2006 I love hardware and I love the Minimoog sound. I'd buy the ASB in a heartbeat if Creamware fixed the bugs mentioned in the other ASB thread. That's what's kept me away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members bdub Posted July 23, 2006 Members Share Posted July 23, 2006 I have been interested in the Minimax and Pro-12, but NOBODY carries them. I would like to hear them in person and twirl some knobs before laying out the cash. I'll wait a few years to see if they're in the $300 range on Ebay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Yoozer Posted July 23, 2006 Members Share Posted July 23, 2006 Originally posted by DancingApe and i got the experience that this was the actually the first synthesizer that really could be called "Virtual Analogue" That's the idea that I got with Prophet V. I just felt it was rather sluggish - switching from the 5 to the VS killed enthusiasm, having both on at the same time killed the CPU, and somehow I really didn't like the way how the VS was operated; it could've been done so much nicer and user-friendly, authenticity be damned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members idiotboy Posted July 23, 2006 Members Share Posted July 23, 2006 I haven't played any of them, but I'm jones'n for the ASB Prodyssey. Can't seem to determine when it will be released. (?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Dave Bryce Posted July 23, 2006 Members Share Posted July 23, 2006 Companies that try to make money off of other people's work without even so much as asking the original designers for permission bug me. BTW - I do not feel this way just because I work with Dave Smith. I had an intense dislike of the practice long before that relationship began...although I do admit it definitely has been magnified hearing Dave grumble about people who just arbitrarily decide it's okay to use his designs. I would never buy any Behringer products either. dB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members AnCap Posted July 23, 2006 Members Share Posted July 23, 2006 Originally posted by Dave Bryce Companies that try to make money off of other people's work without even so much as asking the original designers for permission bug me. BTW - I do not feel this way just because I work with Dave Smith. I had an intense dislike of the practice long before that relationship began...although I do admit it definitely has been magnified hearing Dave grumble about people who just arbitrarily decide it's okay to use his designs. I would never buy any Behringer products either. dB Not to be a jerk, but Dave isn't selling a product that serves that particular desire directly. If Dave isn't willing or able to give people what they want, why gripe about the fact that someone else is doing it? Personally, I applaud whoever makes the best products at the best prices. I own an Evolver for that reason and will certainly check out the Creamware. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Array Posted July 23, 2006 Members Share Posted July 23, 2006 I thought that the demos which were posted on the CreamWare site sounded like ass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Dave Bryce Posted July 23, 2006 Members Share Posted July 23, 2006 Originally posted by AnCap Not to be a jerk, but Dave isn't selling a product that serves that particular desire directly. Not sure I agree... I imagine that Dave would probably argue that a real actual analog synth (especially one made by the same guy who designed the older synth being emulated and using many of the same design conventions) might be more likely to "serve that particular desire" than a VA... How about Moog? Would you also say that they currently not selling a product that serves that particular desire? I believe they are... If Dave isn't willing or able to give people what they want, why gripe about the fact that someone else is doing it? You're kidding, right? Someone takes the time and effort to design and market an original product...then, years later, another company decides to use the look and legacy of that product for their own professional gain without even consulting the original designer. You don't see why the original designer might have a problem with that? It's a courtesy thing. Creamware is making money off the legacy of products that they had nothing to do with designing...not just Dave's products, but Moog and Arp products as well. What can I say - that bugs me. Personally, I applaud whoever makes the best products at the best prices.Oh, I do too. I just tend to have more respect for the companies that try to make a go of it on their own, and less respect for companies that try to cash in on the success of others. I still maintain that they could have just as easily have designed their own look and skin and called it what it is - a Creamware synth. If they had done that, and told people that they had used the P5 as their model when they were making it, that would probably sit much better with me. Plus, what they've done is set themselves up for people to decide they don't want to buy an ASB because maybe they think it doesn't sound like a P5...or a Mini. Maybe that's why we're not hearing so much about it... dB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Kamurah Posted July 23, 2006 Members Share Posted July 23, 2006 Not to be an even bigger jerk..... But if Dave Smith has a problem with the Creamware Prophet...he should take up his gripes with Wine Country Sequential....who....according to their website....fully endorse the modelling used as the basis for the Creamware synth. In fact....when I bought my Prophet Plus for my Creamware card...it was THROUGH Wine Country Sequential. They call it a Prophet Software Survival Kit, and have it boldly displayed on the main page of their website: http://www.winecountrysequential.com/ He should also voice his displeasure to John Bowen, who, according to his website: http://www.zargmusic.com/aboutjohnbowen/index.html .....Was one-half of the Prophet development team, and developed the Prophet emulation for the Creamware platform and Wine Country. I should also point out that..... Creamware developed their software model and sold it for YEARS on the Pulsar platform before Dave Smith released the Evolver. Now that Dave is comparing his Evolvers to Sequential Prophets you have a problem? C'mon.... And...speaking of the Moog version The Creamware Minimax is polyphonic. Voyager is not. It also has built in effects. Voyager does not. It is NOT the same as the Voyager...and the Voyager is NOT the same as a Mini. If one attempted to buy a Mini OR a Voyager you would spend MUCH more than the Minimax. I happen to like Creamware synths. Always have. I think their support sucks, and I hate that they won't develop their Pulsar line for Mac OSX. I sold my two Creamware cards...but am thinking about picking up an ASB model in the future. Knowing their sound as well as I do....I think they are a terrific value for the money. As always ....YMMV. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Dave Bryce Posted July 23, 2006 Members Share Posted July 23, 2006 Originally posted by Kamurah if Dave Smith has a problem with the Creamware Prophet...he should take up his gripes with Wine Country Sequential(snip)He should also voice his displeasure to John Bowen, who, according to his website: http://www.zargmusic.com/aboutjohnbowen/index.html .....Was one-half of the Prophet development team, and developed the Prophet emulation for the Creamware platform and Wine Country. What makes you think he hasn't? I should also point out that..... Creamware developed their software model and sold it for YEARS on the Pulsar platform before Dave Smith released the Evolver. Now that Dave is comparing his Evolvers to Sequential Prophets you have a problem? C'mon.... First of all, I have made a point of representing my POV as being private, not as being that of someone who works with Dave. Secondly, I have worded all of my points to say that I find what they do to be personally distasteful, not professionally damaging. Thirdly, what makes you think this is a recent point of contention for Dave? What makes you think he wasn't miffed when the first P5 softsynth came along? And...speaking of the Moog version The Creamware Minimax is polyphonic. Voyager is not. It also has built in effects. Voyager does not. It is NOT the same as the Voyager...and the Voyager is NOT the same as a Mini. If one attempted to buy a Mini OR a Voyager you would spend MUCH more than the Minimax.A fine point...but I would still contend that they would lilely be more successful if they marketed that box as a Creamware synth designed after a MiniMoog, not as a VA Minimoog. After all, isn't the point of this thread to discuss why the Creamware synths aren't more successful? I firmly believe this is one of the reasons. I happen to like Creamware synths. Always have. I think their support sucks, and I hate that they won't develop their Pulsar line for Mac OSX. I sold my two Creamware cards...but am thinking about picking up an ASB model in the future. Knowing their sound as well as I do....I think they are a terrific value for the money. I also happen to like Creamware synths. I just think they'd be more successful if they'd market their products as such. As always ....YMMV. Absolutely. Hey, there are plenty of people who happily buy knockoff MI products (e.g. Behringer) every day. I just don't happen to be one of them... dB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members sizzlemeister Posted July 23, 2006 Members Share Posted July 23, 2006 Case in point: Clavia. The Nords were marketed as Nords which are sort of based off the P5 sound, if I'm not mistaken, but they have never crossed the line into saying they emulate any particular synth. I'd say Clavia has been pretty successful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Kamurah Posted July 23, 2006 Members Share Posted July 23, 2006 Originally posted by Dave Bryce ......A fine point...but I would still contend that they would lilely be more successful if they marketed that box as a Creamware synth designed after a MiniMoog, not as a VA Minimoog. As reference, I will point the reader to the CW website: http://www.cwaudio.de/index.php?submenu=products&seite=products?=en "You'll probably figure out at first sight which legendary instrument the Minimax was modeled after, as it is one of the most famous and popular synthesizers of all time. Its sound is unique, the oscillators are strong and powerful, the filter packs a real punch, and the envelopes are blindingly fast. Minimax is the perfect emulation of famous original from the 70s. Never before has an analog synthesizer been digitally modeled with such precision and perfection.....Although the goal of the development of Minimax was to create an absolutely faithful reproduction, we couldn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members sizzlemeister Posted July 23, 2006 Members Share Posted July 23, 2006 I think the Waldorf guys learned their lesson: they participate on the Waldorf list frequently now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members blue halo Posted July 23, 2006 Members Share Posted July 23, 2006 Have I tried? No. Am I likely to? No. Do I lust after gear anymore? No. I did. Spent a lot of money needlessly, only to start selling stuff because I never actually used it. Was there a point to this post? No. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members mrcpro Posted July 23, 2006 Members Share Posted July 23, 2006 I disagree with dB that Creamware makes knockoff products like Behringer does. If you open up a lot of Behringer gear, you'll often find something almost identical to the original. What Creamware is doing is more of an homage thing... reminiscent looks, but completely different inside. It's like the '65 Mustang shells you can buy and install on a variety of contemporary cars. You get the look but not the guts. That's what some people looking for a '65 Mustang are forced to buy today, because Ford has moved on to other designs. So also has Dave Smith. And Bob Moog when he was alive. In my opinion, they hardly have room to complain, since they aren't producing the original product anymore. Similar products maybe, just as Ford is currently making a Mustang of sorts. But not the original. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Dave Bryce Posted July 23, 2006 Members Share Posted July 23, 2006 Originally posted by Kamurah BTW Dave....I obviously misread your post as I was thinking you were somehow professionally associated with Dave Smith and grinding a public axe over CW. Sorry about that. No prob... Please do note that I am professionally associated with Dave Smith. Nonetheless, I wasn't responding as such in the context of this thread, which I did try to make clear. Sorry if that wasn't as apparent as I intended. As a rule, when I'm speaking with the DSi hat on (or ADAM Audio, which is my other gig), I note it in my sig. You wanna hear something really dopey? I think one of Creamware's biggest problems is the name of their company. Somehow, I just find the name Creamware to be somewhat off-putting - even though I think they do make some pretty cool gear. I think General Music suffers from a similar problem. BTW - re: celebrity endorsements....I contend those days are gone, man. Think about it...whose endorsement would make the average keyboard player more inclined to buy something? Very few, IMO. Certainly not BT... dB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Dave Bryce Posted July 23, 2006 Members Share Posted July 23, 2006 Originally posted by mrcpro I disagree with dB that Creamware makes knockoff products like Behringer does. If you open up a lot of Behringer gear, you'll often find something almost identical to the original. What Creamware is doing is more of an homage thing... reminiscent looks, but completely different inside. Point taken. Nonetheless, they are still depending heavily on a product that someone else designed for their success. Like I said - not my cuppa tea. Also, the Mustang analogy falls short, IMO. The Creamware boxes are intended not only to look like the legacy synths, but to sound like them as well. dB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Kamurah Posted July 23, 2006 Members Share Posted July 23, 2006 Originally posted by Dave Bryce BTW - re: celebrity endorsements....I contend those days are gone, man. Think about it...whose endorsement would make the average keyboard player more inclined to buy something? Very few, IMO. Certainly not BT... dB Lol....I almost spit my drink out on that one. You may be right....certainly about BT! While I like the brother's music....he has got to be the Whoriest gear endorser in the world. Well....at least he's getting paid. I'd probably do the same thing if Apple/M-Audio/MOTU/Roland/Avalon Design/ - insert your company's name here- / was waving the green and / or free swag under my nose. I don't think I've ever read anything from him that wasn't glowing on whatever piece of gear....."Yeah....that Alesis 3630 is just the BOMB! I always turn to that when I want that Old Skool grunge compression pump on my beats! It's Wicked!...yeah...some guys go for the Black Lion Mod...but I just love the way it sounds out of the box" or whatnot. Whore. Yeah...I'm jealous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members idiotboy Posted July 23, 2006 Members Share Posted July 23, 2006 Gotta agree with DB about the Creamware name. The other day I searched eBay using the term "Creamware", and it returned 200 results--190 of which were kitchen-related products. Besides, I'll wager there's not a man on this board that doesn't, for a second at least, think of...well...something other than synths...when they hear the word "cream..." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members sizzlemeister Posted July 24, 2006 Members Share Posted July 24, 2006 mmmm....Cool Whip. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Dave Bryce Posted July 24, 2006 Members Share Posted July 24, 2006 Originally posted by sizzlemeister mmmm....Cool Whip. Do you think the company that makes Cool Whip (Kraft, I think) asked the original designers of whipped cream for permission before marketing a pathetic imitation of the real thing? dB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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