Compare Horns of Fantom X, Triton Extreme + Motif ES

[GigMan]

Ok, in looking at the plummeting prices of the Korg Triton Extremes (see this thread) I got to thinking about the horn sounds - I really do like the horns in my Triton Le and use them a lot on gigs for nice, quick horn stabs.

 

I wonder how the horn patches on the Big 3 romplers compare - on the Fantom X series, Motif ES series and Triton Extreme series?

 

Has anyone done a "taste test" comparison of these, specifically for horns? And how about strings, while we're at it?

[mrcpro]

When I auditioned awhile back I liked the brass ensembles on the Motif ES better than the Fantom X, but the breathy solo sax on the Fantom better. A very limited comparason Gigman, for sure. And I didn't throw the Triton into the competition because I'd already narrowed my choice down to those two. And those are the only horn sounds I use live.

[GigMan]

Originally posted by mrcpro When I auditioned awhile back I liked the brass ensembles on the Motif ES better than the Fantom X, but the breathy solo sax on the Fantom better. A very limited comparason Gigman, for sure. And I didn't throw the Triton into the competition because I'd already narrowed my choice down to those two. And those are the only horn sounds I use live.

 

Ok, that's cool - a breathy sax would occasionally do me some good, but what I'm really focused on is a big, bad-ass brass section to play horn "pops" and "stingers" and classic horn licks, like in "Midnight Hour" or "Soul Man"...

[GregCh]

The Moss has superb saxes

[mrcpro]

Yeah... an R&B section. Try out the Motif the next time you're around one. You already know what the Triton sounds like. I ended up rolling my own on my Fantom...taking two solo saxes and a trumpet and combining them. The best Roland R&B section preset I've heard is on the old SRJV Pop board. I've got that one in my JV-1080, and fire it off in MIDI sequences when I'm doing my solo.

[Nicky]

 

I'm really focused on is a big, bad-ass brass section to play horn "pops" and "stingers" and classic horn licks, like in "Midnight Hour" or "Soul Man"...

 

I think the Triton Extreme is best for this purpose.

[GigMan]

Originally posted by Nicky I think the Triton Extreme is best for this purpose.

 

Could be - I really was blown away by my Triton Le's horn patch, called "Big Bad Brass"...

 

So if the Extreme has even better sounds than the Le, it would only stand to reason that it'd have a "Bigger, Badder Brass" somewhere in it.

[mate_stubb]

All rompler horns == suckage, IMHO.

[GigMan]

Originally posted by mate_stubb All rompler horns == suckage, IMHO.

 

Yah, well that may be your "humble opinion" ("HO") but I play all different kinds of gigs: wedding/banquet band gigs, rock/bar band gigs, solo, duo gigs and anything else in between... in my NOT so humble opion, speaking from my years of professional performing experience I say romplers are the greatest tool out there for the professional gigging musician.

 

At these venues I don't have the time or the room to set up all kinds of different keyboards and/or samplers, each dedicated to its own function - ie, this one's good for analog leads, this one's good for pads, this one has electromechanical vintage keyboard sounds (sorry, Nord Electro users but there's just certain bit of "elitism" there I don't have the luxury of indulging in), etc... I need 'boards that have an overall smattering of a little of everything. That's why I, and many others like me, am a perfect candidate for a "rompler."

 

I don't care about programming sounds (or even tweaking unless I absolutely have to) - I want a bunch of solid, useable sounds right out of the box that I can use right away, at a gig, rehearsal, or audition.

 

And yes - I am fully aware of the fact that some rompler sounds won't be quite as incredible as what you could get from other sound sources: the organs are not as good as a "clonewheel" unit, the horns may not be as good as from a sampler, the Rhodes or Wurlies are not as good as on a Nord Electro or Stage piano, the acoustic pianos are not as good as a soft synth like Ivory, etc...

 

But who cares? If the overall quality is good and there's enough variety of sounds to cover a gig - the audience doesn't give two frigs whether I'm using a rompler or not.

[mildbill]

my order of preference for hardware synth horns:

 

Kurzweil

Yamaha

Oberheim

Korg

Roland

 

 

 

for strings:

 

Kurzweil

Roland

Yamaha

Korg

[GigMan]

Originally posted by mildbill my order of preference for hardwre synth horns: Kurzweil Yamaha Oberheim Korg Roland for strings: Kurzweil Roland Yamaha Korg

 

Interesting that you have Kurzweil at the top for strings: my Kurz. MicroPiano module (that I still use on gigs after 12 yrs. or so) has the greatest, smoothest strings sound. I love the way it hangs on too, even if I dial the Micro's knob to another sound.

 

But just to clarify, mildbill - when you say "synth horns" you mean a synth trying to reproduce/emulate/play samples of... a real horn section, right? You don't literally mean "synth horns" - like the Janet Jackson/Jimmy Jam+Terry Lewis produced sound of the 80's??

[mildbill]

 

Originally posted by GigMan ........................................when you say "synth horns" you mean a synth trying to reproduce/emulate/play samples of... a real horn section, right? ....................

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

right. mostly i was talking mostly about samples.

but i said 'synth horns' because i really like some of the oberheim horns, and also because i can get some very good results layering sampled horns with some 'synth' sawtooth waves.

 

i also threw in 'hardware', because there's a 'lot' of really good software stuff out there now.

 

i've got a Kurzweil k2600 and a PC2R and none of the 'big 3' come close to them in the 'acoustic sound' arena. (especially the pc2r).

 

i think the big 3 each have their own areas where they shine, but overall, i still give the nod to kurzweil. just one opinion, of course.

[GigMan]

Originally posted by mildbill i've got a Kurzweil k2600 and a PC2R and none of the 'big 3' come close to them in the 'acoustic sound' arena. (especially the pc2r).

 

Aye - but do you base that assessment from hearing it at your home studio, or on recordings... or live on the job at gigs, thru a speaker/amp/PA system?

 

One knock on Kurz. has always been that their sounds are great at home but they sit kind of "thin" in the mix w/the band, at a gig...

[Ed Wall]

Gigman,

I'm with you on the Triton series. I started on the LE, had a Triton Studio 76 for 4 years and then ended up with an Extreme 61. I love the horn sounds (the combi strings are great too) I get from it. I usually layer two different horn sounds together and maybe add a single trumpet that is just slightly de-tuned to get away from that too perfect sound. It works great by itself live, but when used with one of my bands with a real sax guy, nice.

I've heard recordings we've done and it sounds like a real horn section to me...maybe not Tower Of Power but definatly not "suckage" lmao.

If you like the LE series you will love the Extreme. Your organ sounds will come alive. The extra effects on the Extreme give you a much better leslie effect and the tube adds some great overdrive. And there are tons of more sounds on the Extreme. I didnt notice the price drop on the Extreme but if you can get a deal on one I recommend it. EWall

[GigMan]

Thanks Ed. Lemme know if you'll be back at that place in Basking Ridge any time (or anywhere else that's under an hour drive for me), eh...?

[mrcpro]

Originally posted by mate_stubb All rompler horns == suckage, IMHO.

 

Well not all rompler horns, but some. And they often can get more artificial sounding as the size of the sampled ensemble increases.

 

Originally posted by GigMan I really was blown away by my Triton Le's horn patch, called "Big Bad Brass"... So if the Extreme has even better sounds than the Le, it would only stand to reason that it'd have a "Bigger, Badder Brass" somewhere in it.

 

To me, bigger isn't better when I'm comping horn lines live. Something very simple on it's own... a couple of saxes and a trumpet dry with no effects... sounds the most convincing in a club, whereas the huge whizbang programs that have it all are the ones that give rompler horns a bad reputation. But I don't know what "Big Bad Brass" sounds like... like, I'm so unfamiliar with Korgs and all.

 

But I do have a big bad synth brass that I use a lot. In this case, I'm not trying to emulate a horn section.

[wheresgrant3]

G-Man...

 

You already know my opinion on this subject. Out of all the rompler synths I own or have owned (Triton LE & Extreme, Yamaha EX7, Fantom S, Korg N5, Alesis QS6.1) nothing quite does brass like my XP30. In fact the Performance patch (PR-24 Big Band) is so God darned perfect that I simply left it alone... no need for tweaking. I should explore my Extreme a bit and see if I can build something palitable, but the XP30, sits so nicely in the mix that I really don't have a need to use anything else.

 

If you are looking for an upgrade to the LE and are happy with the Triton's sounds and programing layout with the LE I can tell you that the Extreme is all plusses down the board. I am so happy with mine, (partly because I was so used to the LE) that I'm probably selling my Fantom. It's been great to gig with and for the first time I feel like my live rig is complete.

[GigMan]

Thanks Grant -

 

BTW -

Did you get my message about the possibility of the mixer/MicroPiano trade deal...?

[wheresgrant3]

You know... I just got back from a weeklong business trip in Cali and literally got off the plane on Saturday afternoon, and had two gigs on Saturday and Sunday. I haven't had a chance to look at any personal emails while on the road so I haven't gotten to yours yet. Let me read it and I'll get back to you.

 

BTW.... to back up Ed W. I agree... I think that you will be throughly satisfied with the Triton Extreme. It slays the LE in every conceivable way. The most noticable change was in the sound. The Extreme with it's extra insert effects and blue tube does make a noticable difference in sound output. My bandmates noticed the difference immediately... especially on organ patches and any heavy synth/pad (Kromatica for example).

[GigMan]

Originally posted by wheresgrant3 I think that you will be throughly satisfied with the Triton Extreme. It slays the LE in every conceivable way. The most noticable change was in the sound. The Extreme with it's extra insert effects and blue tube does make a noticable difference in sound output. My bandmates noticed the difference immediately... especially on organ patches and any heavy synth/pad (Kromatica for example).

 

Yes - I think I must buy it, just for the blue tube alone... LOL

 

Grant -

I think you mentioned that sometimes you play sound effects or sampled silly stuff at your gigs: like Homer Simpson going "d'oh!" or whatever... do you still do that and what do you trigger them from - the Le? the Extreme? the Fantom S?

 

Not that I'd base my whole purchase on ability to playback goofy soundbites, but hey - if it's part of the package, why not?

[rasp]

Hornz on my motif es rack suck alot. Barely usable.

[triton76]

I use the Extreme and think it's horns are great. My patch is just two presets stacked in combi mode usually with the piano on the right. I also have an XV with the SRX 3 studio which has great horns too. I haven't tried the Fantom or Motif though I'd say that horn sections are one of the sounds romplers are good at in general.

What solo sax are you Extreme users playing?

I uses Sexy sax at a gig and my wife said it sounded crummy.

Maybe I'll try a MOSS patch.

[GigMan]

Hey "triton76" - good to hear from you. Although if you are now a Tritone Extreme user, you'll need to change your screen name, no?

 

Do you have a Triton Extreme 76 now? Wait, scratcht that - I see from your Sig. it's a Triton 61. Why did you downsize - from the Triton 76 to the Extreme 61?

[mate_stubb]

Originally posted by GigMan Yah, well that may be your "humble opinion" ("HO") but I play all different kinds of gigs: wedding/banquet band gigs, rock/bar band gigs, solo, duo gigs and anything else in between... in my NOT so humble opion, speaking from my years of professional performing experience I say romplers are the greatest tool out there for the professional gigging musician. I don't care about programming sounds (or even tweaking unless I absolutely have to) - I want a bunch of solid, useable sounds right out of the box that I can use right away, at a gig, rehearsal, or audition. But who cares? If the overall quality is good and there's enough variety of sounds to cover a gig - the audience doesn't give two frigs whether I'm using a rompler or not.

 

In the words of Jules Winnfield:

 

Well, allow me to retort.

 

First, if romplers satisfy you, well that's great for you. That doesn't make dissenting opinions any less valid. And since we seem to be spouting credentials, I've gigged keyboards for almost 40 years, played bars to weddings to 14000 seat arenas, etc. etc. blah blah. I'm also a trumpet player. I've played in 9 piece horn bands and 4 piece jazz bands. Big deal.

 

Here's why rompler horns in particular suck for me: they sound terribly fake when playing lines because they are incapable of the necessary expression.

 

Yes the audience doesn't care. Of course, they don't care if you are there either, they would be just as happy dancing to a recording.

 

After playing year upon year of cover tunes, original tunes, jazz standards, and blues jams, it has got to make ME happy. I'm not going to settle for playing something that makes me cringe every time I hear it.

 

Since the audience doesn't care, I prefer to play a horn part using an organ or analog synth sound.

 

Here's a tip on how to make rompler horns suck less: layer them with a VL horn sound from a Yamaha synth or plugin card, and use a breath controller.

[GigMan]

Originally posted by mate_stubb In the words of Jules Winnfield: Well, allow me to retort. First, if romplers satisfy you, well that's great for you. That doesn't make dissenting opinions any less valid. And since we seem to be spouting credentials, I've gigged keyboards for almost 40 years, played bars to weddings to 14000 seat arenas, etc. etc. blah blah. I'm also a trumpet player. I've played in 9 piece horn bands and 4 piece jazz bands. Big deal.

 

Actually, it is a big deal: your credentials & many years of experience - we now where you're coming from and your opinion carries a bit more weight, at least w/me.

 

 

Originally posted by mate_stubb Here's why rompler horns in particular suck for me: they sound terribly fake when playing lines because they are incapable of the necessary expression.

Perhaps but I keep my horn riffs simple - stabs, stings, whatever you'd call it. I'm not trying to get great expression, just some tight, brassy sounds.

 

Originally posted by mate_stubb Yes the audience doesn't care. Of course, they don't care if you are there either, they would be just as happy dancing to a recording.

I have to differ w/you there - that's not the case. Well, most of the time it's not the case, granted I do run into some indifferent crowds on occasion.

 

 

Originally posted by mate_stubb After playing year upon year of cover tunes, original tunes, jazz standards, and blues jams, it has got to make ME happy. I'm not going to settle for playing something that makes me cringe every time I hear it.

I can't argue w/you there.

 

 

Originally posted by mate_stubb Since the audience doesn't care, I prefer to play a horn part using an organ or analog synth sound.

I guess a great-sounding, well-played organ or analog synth lick beats a cheesy keyboard horn riff any day.

 

Originally posted by mate_stubb Here's a tip on how to make rompler horns suck less: layer them with a VL horn sound from a Yamaha synth or plugin card, and use a breath controller.

 

I don't play horns so the breath controller thing is not going to work for me. Otherwise, you make some very valid points.