Members Khazul Posted October 2, 2006 Members Share Posted October 2, 2006 I finally took a look t this vid - hmmm... technically the guy can very definately play - very impressive. As for musical expression - oh dear - the average techno geek probably can manage that better... [edit - actually there probaly was musical expresion in there - confusion, choas, utter madness...] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Sleepin' Deeper Posted October 2, 2006 Members Share Posted October 2, 2006 Originally posted by SirGarrote You bet. And I'll even let you play a dead Cziffra. -G {censored} man....I was playin' dead Cziffra's before you was....errr....before you was........umm....humpin' virile ducks? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Tusks Posted October 2, 2006 Members Share Posted October 2, 2006 Originally posted by thenagus Any of you guys seen/heard Jaques Loussier? [/url] First time I've heard of him. Very nice. It's a very Claude Bolling kinda piece. I mean that in a good way. These guys have totally internalized the circle of fifths. Jerry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members henre Posted October 2, 2006 Members Share Posted October 2, 2006 Originally posted by Sleepin' Deeper *runs for cover into a bunker, enters the inner bomb proof bunker, hides, ducks and turns out the flame lights* Yeah, you better run. Dude, I can't imagine how you can be so uptight about it. Interpreting classical music is a different art form to writing a rock tune or improvising over a jazz standard. Your art form lies in expressing yourself through the playing of a certain style of music (and possibly also the composition thereof, idk) that expects of you to also be a lively performer on stage, and probably also to take more liberties with the music. The art in interpreting classical music lies in paying homage to a composer by playing a piece of music exactly as it is written. That demands as great skill as improvising over a walking bass does. I promise you, very few rock guitarists can pull off Little Wing exactly as Hendrix played it; but then, when he wrote it, he allowed more space for the player to inject some of their own emotion into the piece. So yeah. You have to admit, there is a certain skill involved in playing a piece 100% perfect note-for-note, nuance-for-nuance. The pompousness is an unfortunate side-product of the audience of that kind of music... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Sleepin' Deeper Posted October 2, 2006 Members Share Posted October 2, 2006 Originally posted by henre So yeah. You have to admit, there is a certain skill involved in playing a piece 100% perfect note-for-note, nuance-for-nuance. Absolutely, I wouldn't deny their skill, dedication or passion for a second....I'm just averse to fiddlin' my viola while some pompous-ass bearded mfgr waves his sticks 'n {censored} at me! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members mwalthius Posted October 2, 2006 Members Share Posted October 2, 2006 I think it's a cool effect to have the video in black and white, with those retro-looking guys and the old-fashioned TV cameras. I wonder where they found those? Awesome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members asynchro_nous Posted October 3, 2006 Members Share Posted October 3, 2006 Originally posted by Khazul I finally took a look t this vid - hmmm... technically the guy can very definately play - very impressive.As for musical expression - oh dear - the average techno geek probably can manage that better...[edit - actually there probaly was musical expresion in there - confusion, choas, utter madness...] He was just warming up before a performance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members SirGarrote Posted October 3, 2006 Author Members Share Posted October 3, 2006 Originally posted by mwalthius I think it's a cool effect to have the video in black and white, with those retro-looking guys and the old-fashioned TV cameras. I wonder where they found those? Awesome. Three options here: 1) I'm a dumbass. 2) You're a dumbass. 3) Your humor escapes me. -G Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members solomon8 Posted October 3, 2006 Members Share Posted October 3, 2006 Improvisation in regards to a classical performance is a much differenct concept than many of you are talking about here, especially when referring to popular music. The classical performer does not have the extreme choices of deviating from the written page as does a pop performance. The main function of the classical performer is to play a piece true to the composer. That is what the audience expects. He many have the choice to changing certain phrasing in a piece to fit his idea of the interpretation but it still must fit within the context of the original composers intentions. The only improvision you will hear during a classical performance is in the performers personal touch at the keyboard, his own inate timing and where and how he/she chooses to implement the dynamics as suggeston on the pages of the original manuscript. I think the closest you will get to the kind of improvations your are talking about is something like Rachmaninoff's Rhapsody on A Theme of Paganini (? Spelling - sorry); but then some might concider this an entirely new compositon. Just my 2 cents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members SirGarrote Posted October 3, 2006 Author Members Share Posted October 3, 2006 ^^ Or if anyone wrote their OWN cadenzas as opposed to just playing the "suggested" ones the composers have written out. -G Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members pink floyd cramer Posted October 3, 2006 Members Share Posted October 3, 2006 Originally posted by Khazul I finally took a look t this vid - hmmm... technically the guy can very definately play - very impressive. As for musical expression - oh dear - the average techno geek probably can manage that better... [edit - actually there probaly was musical expresion in there - confusion, choas, utter madness...] We have our fair share of average techno geeks so please point me to some superior musicianship:wave: Still say that it RAWKS. Ben Folds would beat off to that video. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Khazul Posted October 3, 2006 Members Share Posted October 3, 2006 Originally posted by pink floyd cramer We have our fair share of average techno geeks so please point me to some superior musicianship:wave: Still say that it RAWKS. Ben Folds would beat off to that video. Well as I probably count as a techno geek too - then read from that as you well - "gimme more knobbage to play with..." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members eminor9 Posted October 3, 2006 Members Share Posted October 3, 2006 Originally posted by SirGarrote :thu: Why does he look like Death though? -G Because he's closer to it than you are (72). Supposed to be famous for his 'Play Bach Live' series performed in Paris during the sixties, every piano player who takes himself seriously should (have) take(n) a listen to those live recordings. Jacques is also the owner of the Miraval Studios in France (Provence) where Pink Floyd, Sade, The Cure and many others recorded amidst the wine yards. Being a techno boffin and classical (and everything else) player myself I can only say that the the first would never have existed if we did not have the influence from the last. Remember, there's only good and bad music ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members girevik Posted October 4, 2006 Members Share Posted October 4, 2006 Originally posted by Jack Luminous Funny you mention french organists... Indeed Pierre Cochereau for example (RIP) was a beyond fantastic improviser. He was the organist of Notre-Dame de Paris from 1955 to 1984. I had the chance to hear it in person and it was mind-blowing, and I remember it clearly even though I was very young at the time. Some of his improvisations were caught on records. Generally, he was freely improvising on old popular folk theme songs coming from the middle-age... Also to the original thread poster, lots of great classical virtuosos are very capable of improvising although differently from jazz musicians. They do improvise but in a more "mild mannered", constructed way. I'm open to recommendations of French organists that I should listen to, as well as other improvising classical musicians who are not jazz musicians or free improv. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Jack Luminous Posted October 4, 2006 Members Share Posted October 4, 2006 Originally posted by girevik I'm open to recommendations of French organists that I should listen to, as well as other improvising classical musicians who are not jazz musicians or free improv. The french organists most gifted for improvising were Marcel Dupr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Jack Luminous Posted October 4, 2006 Members Share Posted October 4, 2006 About Jacques Loussier, get his album Pulsion... Great duo piano/drums... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members girevik Posted October 4, 2006 Members Share Posted October 4, 2006 Originally posted by Jack Luminous The french organists most gifted for improvising were Marcel Dupr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Jack Luminous Posted October 5, 2006 Members Share Posted October 5, 2006 Originally posted by girevik Thank you! I've been listening to the audio samples at Amazon from "L'Improvisateur Extraordinaire" and I like what I've heard so far.L'Improvisateur Extraordinaire at Amazon Any thoughts on which Cochereau CD I should get first? I like this one : "Grandes Orgues de Notre-Dame de Paris" edited by UNIVERSAL Music (ASIN ref is B00004UGDZ). It seems to be not available on amazon.com at the moment but it is from amazon.fr so I guess you can find it. Great classic organ pieces so you can get a glimpse at his style and then two stellar improvisations on old folk songs where you can feel the total freedom, joy of playing and great virtuosity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members suitandtieguy Posted October 5, 2006 Members Share Posted October 5, 2006 Originally posted by solomon8 The main function of the classical performer is to play a piece true to the composer. if you suck. quite frankly "true to the composer" is something only elderly friends of Bartok and Stravinsky have something to say about. classical music died because it eschewed the sixties/seventies interpretists of Fox, Carlos, Casals, Tomita, Emerson, and countless others who don't immediately come to my puny mind. those guys moved people to love the music, and the establishment totally gave them mad {censored} over it. even lately, my local symphony auditioned new conductors in a concert series which lasted a whole season. who won? not the bad mother{censored}er who rocked the second movement of Bach's third Brandenburg (the one the continuo improvises) on the harpsichord he brought to the gig, but to the stodgy museum curator who put on the "safest" show. so yeah ... kids don't know dick about bach and mozart, but plenty about slipknot and chingy, because of {censored}ers like e power biggs. thanks dudes. of course there aren't as many awesome drugs as there used to be. let's blame that too. it's fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members girevik Posted October 5, 2006 Members Share Posted October 5, 2006 Originally posted by Jack Luminous * Olivier Messiaen * Pierre-Philippe Bauzin * Fr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members girevik Posted October 5, 2006 Members Share Posted October 5, 2006 During my brief time with community orchestras (I played viola), we played a piece "exactly as written" maybe about half the time. Adjustments had to be made if the flute player or other instrument happened to be missing that day. Quite a few times, one of the better cellists would be asked to improvise some counterpoint to fill in a hole left in an arrangement due to a missing instrument. I just had a classical guitarist try out my new electric guitar. I was reminded of how far I still need to go in my guitar playing ability - he's just on a whole different level than me. I asked him what piece he was playing and he said he was "just f$%king around". Sounds like improvisation to me. He had a bit of rock guitar background, but all his other training was in classical (no jazz). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Jack Luminous Posted October 5, 2006 Members Share Posted October 5, 2006 Originally posted by girevik I went through the first half of the above list, searching on Amazon (I have a gift card). I'll get to the 2nd half later... I found improv-oriented CDs by Jean Guillou and Thierry Escaich. The sample of Guillou's rendition of "Jingle Bells" is the most insane rendition I have heard yet of that tune!Improvisations For Christmas I love it! Thanks for giving us some much-need info about this great improvisational art form that seems to be obscure here in the US! If you happen to visit France and pass by Paris, some of them are titular organists in churches in Paris and suburbs. They are often doing free improv concerts on sunday afternoons. About Jean Guillou : the guy is one of those old masters who learned directly from Marcel Dupr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Jack Luminous Posted October 5, 2006 Members Share Posted October 5, 2006 Another funny thing about Jean Guillou. He's also playing a "pedalboard-piano" especially made for him : http://jeanguillou.artistes.universalmusic.fr/Borgato/body_borgato.html super wild !! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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