Members Karnevil Posted December 11, 2006 Members Share Posted December 11, 2006 Hi! Sorry for yet another "versus"-thread, but I have a dilemma and need some opinions... I was going to buy a Nord Stage, but I realize I just don't have enough cash for it. Anyway, apart from the brilliant design and portability, I also feel it's rather overpriced. I tried it several times in a local shop, and none of the sounds really blew me away, except for the rhodes which was brilliant. I also use a macbook with Logic Pro 7 for EVB3, Scarbee Rhodes etc... The thing I really, really liked about the Nord Stage was the keyboard action. It was extremely quick and snappy, which I like. How does the MP4 fare in comparison to the Nord Stage? I know Hammond-wise the Stage will win obviously, but what about the piano sound, response/connection to instrument, snappy/quick key action? Does the MP4 piano sound work well live? I play jazz, fusion and rock/pop. Thanks! PS: I really like the ES4 with internal speakers and all, but I've heard that the key action on the ES4 is more spongy/less firm - and that the MP4's keyboard action was preferred. Is this correct? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Karnevil Posted December 11, 2006 Author Members Share Posted December 11, 2006 Hmmm, listened to the mp3 demos of MP4 on Kawai's internet site. The MP4 definately sounds more boxy/woolly...I don't know if could live with that sound. Listening to demos of the Nord Stage, the piano is much crisper and alive. Maybe it's the mp3 compression or something? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members henre Posted December 11, 2006 Members Share Posted December 11, 2006 Mp3 demos will never do an instrument justice, man... You should play them yourself if you have the chance (which I know isn't always possible, but it's the only advice I can give you). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members leavity Posted December 11, 2006 Members Share Posted December 11, 2006 First off, if you like the built-in speakers and can't afford the Stage, get the ES4, it's a no-brainer. I played both MP4 and ES4, to me there was no difference in feel, I bought the ES4, As far as actions go I never cared fo Fatars, which is what's on the Stage. Both Kawai and Yamaha make there own actions, and to me they are superior the Fatar. Back to price, for the Stage you'll probably be looking at close to $3000, and the ES4 will be closer to $1000, plus you'll get great acousic pianos and Rhodes plus speakers at 45 and a half lbs. In any case, you should try to find all the models you're interested in and play/compare them for yourself. Mp3 demos do NOT do any model justice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Tuba Four Posted December 11, 2006 Members Share Posted December 11, 2006 Karnevil, I own the Stage 88 and have played the MP4 at the store (using my sennheiser headphones). I didn't like the MP4 at all. I thought the pianos were one dimensional with little to no life in them, and the Rhodes were subpar!! It also felt cheaply made. I never played the ES4, so I can't compare the two. If you want an alternative to the Nord Stage, I'd look at the S90ES, or the Roland RD700sx, but, IMHO, the piano and the EPs on the Stage are several notches above the two I just mentioned. HTH, aL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members dengus Posted December 11, 2006 Members Share Posted December 11, 2006 I own the MP4. Firstly, don't rely on the mp3 demos - they are crap and sound nothing like the instrument. I think they would put alot of people off the Kawais unnecessarily. The piano sounds, although not perfect, are as good as if not better than most other stage pianos I've tried (although the Nord is not one of them). The MP4 is a very expressive instrument if set up right. The touch curve used really makes a difference to the perceived sound and connection with the instrument. In fact, the "user" touch curve, where the keyboard analyses your playing, is a must, but takes a while to get right. For some reason, when this is set up correctly, the piano sounds are much more pleasing and respond more like you'd expect them to in terms of tone and dynamics. The sound "opens up". The action is superb for a digital piano, but like any keyboard, takes some getting used to. But again, the operative word is "expressive". A fair degree of discipline is required, but I actually think this has improved my technique and I seem to play better on my Yamaha U1 upright since getting the MP4. The MP4 is a great live instrument - sits well in a mix, particularly the ep's (use the eq!) and Concert Grand 2, Studio Grand 2. Although these acoustic piano patches are quite rough when trying to play solo, classical stuff. But on the other hand, CG1 is very nice for classical stuff. You'll also want to edit the default effects (of the ep's in particular) to get better results. Also, the onboard eq works really well to sculpt the sound to suit what your playing through, the room, the band etc....takes some of the thickness or "boxiness" out when necessary. Note: The ES4 and MP4 purportedly have the same action, although I have read about a "clicking" problem with the es4's keys; this does not exist on the MP4 as far as I know. Again, the action is really good for this class of keyboard. I don''t agree with Tuba Four that the MP4 is cheaply made, quite the contrary - it's very solid and the action, most importantly, is quiet and robust. The only criticism i would have (a nitpick, i suppose) is that the sliders feel a bit flimsy. And in my opinion the pianos are definitely not one dimensional, especially through a decent stereo monitor setup (headphones don't do it justice - I too have Sennheisers). These sounds need air to travel through - use the room... Regarding ease of use - this is one of the MP4's best assets. The zones, layering, splitting, midi control etc is fantastic and very intuitive... if you need that sort of stuff. Bit of a rambling post and just my 2 cents, but I hope it hepls... Cheers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members dgelas Posted December 11, 2006 Members Share Posted December 11, 2006 great feature with nordstage is the ability to download and change samples in internal flash memoryyou don't like a sound : no problem you have other choices, and it costs nothing. also Clavia works at improving their samples.And with the numerous parameters in the NS you can really improve a sound at your convenience. Next time you demo it, take time to tweak the parameters. you can buy it for much less than public price : negociate, or buy it in Europe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members mate_stubb Posted December 12, 2006 Members Share Posted December 12, 2006 Originally posted by dgelas And with the numerous parameters in the NS you can really improve a sound at your convenience. Next time you demo it, take time to tweak the parameters. Bingo. Play with the EQs and the effects! Also if you demo in mono, or thru crap speakers you are missing out. You MUST play the Stage in stereo. you can buy it for much less than public price : negociate, or buy it in Europe Again, very true. I negotiated a price on my Stage far enough below the advertised internet price that essentially allowed me to get the rather pricey legs for free. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Karnevil Posted December 12, 2006 Author Members Share Posted December 12, 2006 Thanks guys for excellent help! I used to have a MP9500, but sold it as it was too heavy to lug around to band practices and gigs. I know that Kawai digitals are very expressive and dynamic! However, Clavia's piano samples aren't perfect either. The upper two octaves sound weak in volume, and there are some obvious sample strechting going on even in the XL samples. however I'd like to believe that Clavia will fix this. They useally come through in the end, I mean they're still updating the electro! Glad to hear that the action on MP4 and ES4 are similar, as I would like the ES4 with the loudspeaker option. Thanks for the input, though I'll wait another month to see if I can scrape together enough cash for the Nord Stage.. Thanks again! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members henre Posted December 12, 2006 Members Share Posted December 12, 2006 Originally posted by mate_stubb I negotiated a price on my Stage far enough below the advertised internet price that essentially allowed me to get the rather pricey legs for free. PM me the price you paid? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members HairyScaryMark Posted December 12, 2006 Members Share Posted December 12, 2006 I had my heart set on a nord stage. My friend brought his one round to my house last Friday and I played it for a conciderable amount of time. Also played it in a shop on a few ocasions for an amount of time, maybe totally a couple of hours in total. Maybe it is just me but I felt the dyanamics on the higher notes of the piano were not very realistic. By this, i mean. I have a piece of music where i try to create more drama when I hit the high notes and I felt there was something insufficent about the response I got when I hammered down the keys. The pianos are still the best I have tried, although I have not tried a great deal. The action is very rewarding to play. The piano sounds are very 'natural' souding to an extent I haven't came across anywhere else. I am not sure how realistic the dynamics are though, that is the main thing against it. Also, I played the 'steinway convolution light' sample from kontakt 2 as a comparison, using the nord stage. There was a clear difference, it didn't sound as good, particualrly at the lower end. The dynamics with this responded even worse also. Otherwise, it isn't a bad sample. There is also comment on the external control functions not being as nicely setup as you would like. Concidering the range of sounds available on the board is not as broad as you may like, the chances of someone wanting to control a few external units is quite high. Apparently, it could only realistic control 2 (without some type of midi mapping device). Which is probably enough for myself and most others but it seems like they could have made it many more without costing themselves any more in production costs. Also note, it's probably the onboard changable settings but I turned the external 'zone' off and it kept sending midi signals to my computer. I am 99% sure this can be changed but I was suprised it wasn't setup like this as default. People keep recommending the Yamaha S90 ES. Is that basicly the same as The Motif ES 8? We have to accept that a digital piano is not going to be the same as playing a real high quality grand but there are certain things we cannot go without in the playing experience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members dgelas Posted December 12, 2006 Members Share Posted December 12, 2006 I also think the upper octaves of the C7 XL aren't loud enough, but there's a way to fix that, thanks to the features.I made a patch with the C7 XL in the 2 panels, splitting them one octave above the middle, the lower part in panel A, the upper in Panel B. With the levels of the piano sound in each panel, you can make it sound louder in the trebles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members dengus Posted December 13, 2006 Members Share Posted December 13, 2006 Karnevil - If you're still interested, check out this site for a better example of some of the Kawai MP4's pianos. (Scroll to the bottom) http://playivorys.com/modules.php?name=Piano_compare It's still an mp3 but is far better than the Kawai website's demos. Let us know what you think... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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