I just called up a local GC to ask if they had an MXR Micro-amp in stock....

[Brian Marshall]

goddamn..i am sick of listening to people bag on immigrants, as if they were required to take conversational english before they moved here. i don't care what you guys think - if your relatives were non-english speaking immigrants from decades past, they did NOT assimilate immediately and speak basic english right off the bat. it took time. the difference back then was that they had larger communities set up to soften the effect of a new society and had people help them get going. the same thing happens today, where non-english speaking families usually struggle for quite a while, but their children pick up certain habits and language conventions to accelerate, and eventually, take charge of their families. i'm a 5th generation german descendant, and my family didn't fully integrate until they were two generations up. no one ever gave us {censored}. goddamn, it's depressing to hear how much animosity is directed at people these days. what's even worse is when some people come on here and whine about specific inconveniences of running into non-english speaking people. gee - sorry. they deal with more hardship than you'll ever have to, and it deals with more than just an incident when they can't order a goddamn burger quickly. if you can't handle it, walk down to the next fatty burger to try again. jesus {censored}ing christ...

 

 

yeah, when people get pissed because someone is speaking a different language around them it makes me laugh.

 

Or they get pissed because when they call their bank they have to hear. "para en espanol marke ocho"

 

If those are you biggest problems in life then you must have it pretty damn good. Next thing they'll do is complain that the sky is always blue... why cant it be purple or orange some days??? why do we have to have gravity every day??? I wish there was a wider selection of giant spatulas at 7-11, but there isnt so im going to make sure everyone else knows how unhappy i am about it.

[zarathustra1978]

is not my duty, so even though chances are i can speak your languague, that doesnt not make me obligated to do it.

 

 

Of course, this post begs the question of why you haven't bothered to learn basic English.

[sonaboy]

And sorry, but you can't compare German immigration in the past to what we are seeing now even compare, we're talking about millions of people.

 

i guess i can't compare german immigration to now, it's much harder these days.

 

and i'm pretty sure that this "millions" is much less when we're talking about permanent immigrants. it's probably more like thousands.

if you want to get into temporary or illegal immigration, that's something else entirely.

 

as far as your personal experience, i can't relate to it, because i've never been met with contempt when attempting to speak spanish. even though i walk into shops all the time with nothing but spanish advertisements and workers, never once have i been treated unfairly for speaking only english.

i guess we just make do in my neighborhood. the most i've had to go through when misunderstood is when the bartender brought me the wrong beer.

and since we're talking beer, he didn't get it THAT WRONG. beer is delicious in any language.

[Wilbo26]

 

Yeah, all those ruthless cocksuckers working for wages far below legal levels at {censored} jobs that most Americans wouldn't touch with a ten-foot pole, just so you and I can continue to get our apples, oranges, oil lubes, handjobs, and greasy hamburgers on the cheap... terrible isn't it? Not to mention the enormous amounts of undocumented surplus capital collected by the US government because illegal immigrants (er, I mean asshole Mexicans) are required to pay federal taxes, state taxes, social security, unemployment insurance, and random other taxes but are never able to collect on it because their legal documents are, well, pretty much fake. Goddamn I hate those {censored}ers. Of course, this post begs the question of why you haven't bothered to learn basic English.

 

American's wouldn't touch those jobs with a ten foot pole for what illegals will work for. That's the difference. You pay a decent wage for those jobs and people will line up. And those people will take that money and put all of it back into the economy, not send half of ot it or more back to their home country.

 

Granted you could argue that most of our {censored} is made in Mexico or China anwayas so that's a moot point, but I don't think its that simple.

[Wilbo26]

i guess i can't compare german immigration to now, it's much harder these days. and i'm pretty sure that this "millions" is much less when we're talking about permanent immigrants. it's probably more like thousands. if you want to get into temporary or illegal immigration, that's something else entirely. as far as your personal experience, i can't relate to it, because i've never been met with contempt when attempting to speak english. even though i walk into shops all the time with nothing but spanish advertisements and workers, never once have i been treated unfairly for speaking only english. i guess we just make do in my neighborhood. the most i've had to go through when misunderstood is when the bartender brought me the wrong beer. and since we're talking beer, he didn't get it THAT WRONG. beer is delicious in any language.

Well come on down to the border and we'll take a little tour then. Its certainly not horrible but its there...and I can see the potential for it getting worse. And how can you call it 'temporary' immigration? How many of these workers are going back home? And for every one that does how many come over? And for each of them how many are coming here to work, or how many are coming here to sell cheap drugs, or steal {censored}, or rape women, or kill cops, or star cults that praise the almighty Xenu. WE don't know what they're doing because they're unregisterd illegals living off the grid. I mean I get in more trouble for driving my car without a current inspection sticker than these people do. WTF???

[sonaboy]

American's wouldn't touch those jobs with a ten foot pole for what illegals will work for. That's the difference. You pay a decent wage for those jobs and people will line up. And those people will take that money and put all of it back into the economy, not send half of ot it or more back to their home country. Granted you could argue that most of our {censored} is made in Mexico or China anwayas so that's a moot point, but I don't think its that simple.

 

 

while i understand what you're saying, i'd say this:

let's be honest - the MAJORITY of that money is going back into the pockets of American Business owners who hire these people in the first place.

they transfer the majority back into the economy, they transfer the taxes back into the economy (my god, i hope i'm right about this), they don't spend their money in Mexico.

so, depending on your viewpoint, you can either thank them, or chastise them for their actions.

[Wilbo26]

Of course, this post begs the question of why you haven't bothered to learn basic English.

 

 

Despite his horrid spelling, lets put him up against the typical non-english speaker I run into at the DMV trying, and succeeding to get a valid driver's license despite being unable to read a lick of english, much less speak it. USAStrat might have horrid spelling but he knows 10000X more English than the people we're talking about.

[Wilbo26]

while i understand what you're saying, i'd say this: let's be honest - the MAJORITY of that money is going back into the pockets of American Business owners who hire these people in the first place. they transfer the majority back into the economy, they transfer the taxes back into the economy (my god, i hope i'm right about this), they don't spend their money in Mexico. so, depending on your viewpoint, you can either thank them, or chastise them for their actions.

 

 

Its hard to really prove that either way. And honestly that's great as long as they at least make an attempt to learn to communicate with me on a basic level in my native language...I extend the same courtesy to them when I'm in their home country. I just wish you could see the attitude some, not all, but some of these people extend towards an average white guy like me. It really sucks to go to your neighborhood grocery store and get looked down upon because you don't say, "Pardon me" in Spanish.

[Brian Marshall]

I have no doubts there are other illegals here from other countries. I live in a state though with a huge number of illegals from mexico so thats what I bitch about. 6 months ago a man was beat to death by 4 illegals for trying to collect rent. They crapped on his body then fled. As far as I know they've never been caught because there was no real information on them and their id's were fake. Its a fairly small community and they're having trouble already with children who were born here not being able to handle school because they cant speak english. These schools are already run on tight budgets and then they have to add other teachers so these students can have special attention. Some of my best friends at my last college were foreign students. Some from brazil, some from indonesia, a few from Ukraine and one from Kazakhastan. I've had this discussion with them before. They believe it is disrespectful to this country and the people who live here to want to come here and not be part of our society. One of my best friends in high school was a mexican immigrant. His family was very proud that they did it legally. His dad was a college grad, his brother went to MIT and he's currently at Stanford. To him and his family its disgraceful the attitude most illegals around here have towards american culture. Call me racist or whatever but its a problem that really needs fixed.

 

 

difference is that those friends of yours in college were probably people who had a lot more available opportunity than the average illegal back in their own country.

[choadwarrior]

while i understand what you're saying, i'd say this: let's be honest - the MAJORITY of that money is going back into the pockets of American Business owners who hire these people in the first place. they transfer the majority back into the economy, they transfer the taxes back into the economy (my god, i hope i'm right about this)

 

 

I think as has already been expressed a bit earlier, this isn't the case much of the time..no idea how often it is, versus how much it isn't, but it seems that immigrants, especially near the border, head back across, taking their earnings with them in many cases..wilbo?

[Wilbo26]

 

difference is that those friends of yours in college were probably people who had a lot more available opportunity than the average illegal back in their own country.

 

That brings up another point. I knew a guy in high school...I think he scored something like 1100 on the SAT, maybe a 3.0 out of 4.0 GPA, and because his great grandmother was 1/4 mexican he go to check the 'latino' box or whatever on his application. This guy was twice as white as me and his parents were a little more than well off. He got in, and people that had beter test scores, better grades and better activities didn't get in. And this was when Affirmative Action was "illegal" in Texas. This might be a bit off topic but it screams of reverse racism to me. And its not even helping anyone that actually needs help. Just filling a quota.

 

And that's the same reason nobody does anything about our borders. Its a vote-grabbing issue and nobody has the balls to take a side either way and do something, because its a death sentence for some politicians.

[Wilbo26]

 

I think as has already been expressed a bit earlier, this isn't the case much of the time..no idea how often it is, versus how much it isn't, but it seems that immigrants, especially near the border, head back across, taking their earnings with them in many cases..wilbo?

 

Yes. Look it up. A disturbing portion of Mexico's GDP is money sent from the U.S. We are making up for their {censored}ty 3rd world economy by paying them slightly more than they could get there, but less than any self respecting U.S. worker would take here. And the figure grows every year. This {censored} is far beyond racism guys. I dare anyone here to accuse me of being racist.

[therhodeo]

difference is that those friends of yours in college were probably people who had a lot more available opportunity than the average illegal back in their own country.

 

 

I dont doubt that. I'm saying that conservative white americans arent the only people who think that illegals not learning our language is wrong.

[Wilbo26]

Oh {censored} I was just waiting for somebody to call me a Republitard. That would be a great moment.

[therhodeo]

That brings up another point. I knew a guy in high school...I think he scored something like 1100 on the SAT, maybe a 3.0 out of 4.0 GPA, and because his great grandmother was 1/4 mexican he go to check the 'latino' box or whatever on his application. This guy was twice as white as me and his parents were a little more than well off. He got in, and people that had beter test scores, better grades and better activities didn't get in. And this was when Affirmative Action was "illegal" in Texas. This might be a bit off topic but it screams of reverse racism to me. And its not even helping anyone that actually needs help. Just filling a quota. And that's the same reason nobody does anything about our borders. Its a vote-grabbing issue and nobody has the balls to take a side either way and do something, because its a death sentence for some politicians.

 

 

 

That good friend of mine that I said was attending Stanford now got there the same way. This guy is a good student and works hard so I'm not trying to belittle him but I scored 2 points better than him on the ACT and had equal gpa's. His parents income was way above mine but he got scholarships from GM and various other huge corporations because of his ethnicity. I can't even get federal aid. He's at stanford now. I think he has only studied at stanford 1 semester of the 6 he's been there. 2 semesters in Russia, 1 in Rome, 1 in Switzerland, and the other I believe in Germany. All paid for because of his race. I attend community college and besides what my choir scholarship pays everything else comes out of my pocket because I'm white and refuse to use what 1/32 cherokee blood I have to make myself out as a native american.

[zarathustra1978]

American's wouldn't touch those jobs with a ten foot pole for what illegals will work for. That's the difference. You pay a decent wage for those jobs and people will line up. And those people will take that money and put all of it back into the economy, not send half of ot it or more back to their home country. Granted you could argue that most of our {censored} is made in Mexico or China anwayas so that's a moot point, but I don't think its that simple.

 

 

You're right; it's not that simple. Why do you think employers began recruiting low-wage workers in the first place? They didn't do it just because they're greedy bourgeois pigs. They did it because they were unable to compete with the service industry--that's where the money is, in the tertiary sector, and, naturally, any reasonably skilled American preferred to work in an air-conditioned office rather than in, say, an apple orchard. And that's why the service industry comprises ~80% of the US economy. Sure, some American workers have been unwillingly displaced, but the vast majority of them have benefitted. A lot. (Notice how consistently low the unemployment rate has remained despite all this whining about outsourcing, shrinking industry, illegal workers, blah blah blah.)

[Brian Marshall]

That brings up another point. I knew a guy in high school...I think he scored something like 1100 on the SAT, maybe a 3.0 out of 4.0 GPA, and because his great grandmother was 1/4 mexican he go to check the 'latino' box or whatever on his application. This guy was twice as white as me and his parents were a little more than well off. He got in, and people that had beter test scores, better grades and better activities didn't get in. And this was when Affirmative Action was "illegal" in Texas. This might be a bit off topic but it screams of reverse racism to me. And its not even helping anyone that actually needs help. Just filling a quota. And that's the same reason nobody does anything about our borders. Its a vote-grabbing issue and nobody has the balls to take a side either way and do something, because its a death sentence for some politicians.

 

 

 

First off... there is no such thing as reverse racism... anyone who uses that phrase has bee reading too many david duke books. Racism is racism pure and simple... it doesnt have a direction.

 

Affirmative action was needed in my opinion, decades ago. To some extent I think it still is relevant, but in truth it has been so marginalized in the last 15 years or so, im not sure it matters much anymore.

 

What exactly did this white mexican guy get in to... 3.0 isnt bad for an average college.

[Brian Marshall]

I dont doubt that. I'm saying that conservative white americans arent the only people who think that illegals not learning our language is wrong.

 

 

so you are saying that priviliged foreigners believe it as well?

[Wilbo26]

That good friend of mine that I said was attending Stanford now got there the same way. This guy is a good student and works hard so I'm not trying to belittle him but I scored 2 points better than him on the ACT and had equal gpa's. His parents income was way above mine but he got scholarships from GM and various other huge corporations because of his ethnicity. I can't even get federal aid. He's at stanford now. I think he has only studied at stanford 1 semester of the 6 he's been there. 2 semesters in Russia, 1 in Rome, 1 in Switzerland, and the other I believe in Germany. All paid for because of his race. I attend community college and besides what my choir scholarship pays everything else comes out of my pocket because I'm white and refuse to use what 1/32 cherokee blood I have to make myself out as a native american.

 

Diversity > Fairness at America's colleges these days. Apparently we're all better if we're exposed to racial diversity. Of course real diversity doesn't exist because apparently racial diversity is the only thing that matters. I mean everyone knows all white people wear polo shirts and play tennis, and all black people eat fried chicken and listen to rap music, and all mexicans sleep all day and eat tacos, and all swedes buy expensives amps and are pompous asshoes, etc etc etc.

 

And its just not {censored}ing funny when people go off on stereotypes.

 

 

[therhodeo]

so you are saying that priviliged foreigners believe it as well?

 

 

Most of these were far from privileged. These werent spoiled kids who got to come to america to go to college.

[Brian Marshall]

You're right; it's not that simple. Why do you think employers began recruiting low-wage workers in the first place? They didn't do it just because they're greedy bourgeois pigs. They did it because they were unable to compete with the service industry--that's where the money is, in the tertiary sector, and, naturally, any reasonably skilled American preferred to work in an air-conditioned office rather than in, say, an apple orchard. And that's why the service industry comprises ~80% of the US economy. Sure, some American workers have been unwillingly displaced, but the vast majority of them have benefitted. A lot. (Notice how consistently low the unemployment rate has remained despite all this whining about outsourcing, shrinking industry, illegal workers, blah blah blah.)

 

 

but the medain wage has sunk over the last 5 years.

[choadwarrior]

and all swedes buy expensives amps and are pompous asshoes, etc etc etc.

 

 

hahaha

[sonaboy]

And honestly that's great as long as they at least make an attempt to learn to communicate with me on a basic level in my native language...I extend the same courtesy to them when I'm in their home country.

 

 

If you knew how to extend the same courtesy to them in their own native language in their country, why couldn't you do it here?

 

whether it's obvious or not at the time, you're still at the advantage here.

[Wilbo26]

If you knew how to extend the same courtesy to them in their own native language in their country, why couldn't you do it here? whether it's obvious or not at the time, you're still at the advantage here.

 

 

I would if they didn't look at me like I was an ass for not speaking Spanish to them from the beginning. The problem is the types we're talking about don't want to learn English. I want to learn Spanish. They don't care to learn English. HUGE difference. How can you not see that? I wouldn't expect them to go out of their way to cater to my language if I was living in Mexico and living off their social services??? How can you see this situation as a good thing for our country?

[sub rosa]

...the kid says hold on, then comes back and says "no, we only have the Roland Micro-cube" Serves me right for calling Guitar Center.

WTF happened to this thread dammit?! Did someone start posting in the wrong one and no one notice?