Members BloodTypeBlue Posted February 22, 2007 Members Share Posted February 22, 2007 Title's pretty self-explanatory...my band just split with our old singer and she's taking her Fender 100W keyboard amp, which she put vocals through, with her. That thing always started feeding back before we turned it all the way up, and even then we could barely hear her. Our new singer doesn't have such an amp, so we have to find a new setup. Anyway, can anyone suggest something cheap (~$100-200, if possible), clean, and loud to put vocals through in a basement rehearsal with a fairly loud drums-guitar/keys-bass arrangement? We don't care about hi-fi as long as we can hear it and it doesn't clip. I'm sure this is something everyone who's ever been in a band with a vocalist has had to deal with. Should we: 1. get another keyboard amp? 2. get a power amp and a speaker, put the mic through a mixer into that? 3. get a powered monitor? 4. other? Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members SpectralJulian Posted February 22, 2007 Members Share Posted February 22, 2007 How loud do you guys fricking practice? 100w and you had to push it so hard it started feeding back? You don't need to practice so loud. Have everyone turn down, and don't have your drummer play so loud. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members bluehuricane Posted February 22, 2007 Members Share Posted February 22, 2007 i run my vocals through a behringer mixer into a 60 watt solid state guitar amp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ZJD Posted February 22, 2007 Members Share Posted February 22, 2007 Yeah you guys really need to turn down, especially if your in a basement where sound is just bouncing all over the concrete. I'd also suggest looking into a simple P.A. system, even for practice and get some kind of foam blocks to put in front of your drummer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members mueller Posted February 22, 2007 Members Share Posted February 22, 2007 the feedback probably had more to do with the position of the mic more than the (lack of) power the amp could put out. I say get another keyboard amp and experiment with placement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members paydirt Posted February 22, 2007 Members Share Posted February 22, 2007 Yeah you guys really need to turn down, especially if your in a basement where sound is just bouncing all over the concrete. I'd also suggest looking into a simple P.A. system, even for practice and get some kind of foam blocks to put in front of your drummer. +1 on the P.A.. We have a couple of Mackie 808S that do the trick. Pretty good middle of the road solution. Your vocals will cut through with just one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members cabrasguitar Posted February 22, 2007 Members Share Posted February 22, 2007 If you are looking for really cheap and don;t care too much about the sound what about one of those crate power blocks and some old cab of some sort, 150 watts and cheap as hell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members sonic_tooth Posted February 22, 2007 Members Share Posted February 22, 2007 Well one thing that could help is using a SM 57 instead of a 58. There is really no substitute for a proper PA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members TZR Posted February 22, 2007 Members Share Posted February 22, 2007 the feedback probably had more to do with the position of the mic more than the (lack of) power the amp could put out. I say get another keyboard amp and experiment with placement. i agree that the feedback is most likely due to placement. i would suggest getting an actual PA, but if that can't be done you can find some cheap powered monitors that work pretty well. i think stagg makes on thats only like 150 with a 12 and a horn. not a big stagg fan myself, but it's one of your cheapest routes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Klisk Posted February 22, 2007 Members Share Posted February 22, 2007 I've quit bands because of this. If they refuse to turn down, I end up walking. I care too much about my hearing. Sometimes they're too loud even for my ear filters...! If it gets too loud to hear any of the other intruments, especially if everyone is playing 50+ tube watts, then it's just too loud. It's practice, not a concert! But seriously, I've been in other bands where everyone turned down, and the singer sang through a 10W SS practice amp, and everything worked out really great. One thing I have a personal gripe with, even as a guitarist, is when other guitarists force their bassists to buy bigger and louder amps again and again to cut through the mix. What a waste of money. Just turn down so things sound right, don't force the guy to blow money when his 200W SS setup could have been just fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members telephant Posted February 22, 2007 Members Share Posted February 22, 2007 How loud do you guys fricking practice? 100w and you had to push it so hard it started feeding back? You don't need to practice so loud. Have everyone turn down, and don't have your drummer play so loud. What do you play elevator music? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members arcarsenal72 Posted February 22, 2007 Members Share Posted February 22, 2007 What do you play elevator music? Hahahaha, rock and roll Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Tweeker50 Posted February 22, 2007 Members Share Posted February 22, 2007 Title's pretty self-explanatory...my band just split with our old singer and she's taking her Fender 100W keyboard amp, which she put vocals through, with her. That thing always started feeding back before we turned it all the way up, and even then we could barely hear her. Our new singer doesn't have such an amp, so we have to find a new setup. Anyway, can anyone suggest something cheap (~$100-200, if possible), clean, and loud to put vocals through in a basement rehearsal with a fairly loud drums-guitar/keys-bass arrangement? We don't care about hi-fi as long as we can hear it and it doesn't clip. I'm sure this is something everyone who's ever been in a band with a vocalist has had to deal with. Should we: 1. get another keyboard amp? 2. get a power amp and a speaker, put the mic through a mixer into that? 3. get a powered monitor? 4. other? Thanks! The answer is not what you or your band mates want to hear, but it's #4 play softer. Play softer. You're in a basement, not on an open stage. Early reflections in a small enclosed space make it difficult and only the most professional musicians really handle this properly. You could be one of them. It's easy - JUST TURN DOWN. Get everyone to play softer. Here's a test. Record the practice with a cheapo boombox or any stereo recorder with a built in condenser mic. If you can hear everyone reasonably balanced - with no one drowning someone else out - then you've got it. Until you can do this, you're playing too loud. I know most musicians would rather have root canal with no pain killer before turning down, but here's the up side. If you can learn to balance yourself in a small unforgiving basement, then you can do it in any performnance venue. The bands that learn how to do this sound more consistant from gig to gig. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members BloodTypeBlue Posted February 22, 2007 Author Members Share Posted February 22, 2007 Here's a measure of how loud our rehearsals are: sometimes, instead of playing bass, I play 2nd guitar through a 30W tube Laney combo. I can't be heard through that thing until I'm up to 7 or 8 on the clean channel:( Earplugs are mandatory in this band... I prefer turning down and hearing balance and dynamics to having root canals...but everything's dialed in to match up with our drummer's volume, and she doesn't have a volume control...sometimes she plays so hard she'll physically burn herself out and get blisters after an hour or two. It's really quite atrocious but I'm not sure what I could do about it... Either way, that's an issue we have to tackle, vox or no vox. Any other equipment suggestions? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Luke m-s Posted February 22, 2007 Members Share Posted February 22, 2007 How loud do you guys fricking practice? 100w and you had to push it so hard it started feeding back? You don't need to practice so loud. Have everyone turn down, and don't have your drummer play so loud. I wish drummers had volume knobs on Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members The*Ataris Posted February 22, 2007 Members Share Posted February 22, 2007 Mackie mixer, crown power amp, and two 15" JBL's. Maybe we're louder than most? We blew the voice coil on one of my cheapie 12" PA speakers when we first started playing. Had to buy something that could handle the rock--enter: JBL's... I don't know how you guys can use guitar amps, keyboard amps, and whatnot. Maybe vocals play a more important role in bands I've been in, but a sufficient practice PA setup has been top priority for me when starting bands. Fortunately, most people I've played with have (collectively) accumulated quite a bit of equipment over the years... Hell, I remember in high school inmy old band, we used to practice in our singer's gigantic unfinished basement (we're talking like 1500+ sq. feet). The singer had two 15" JBL's stacked on some really old, huge, no-name speakers (they weighed about 150 pounds each--real install speakers). He had a monitor, I had a monitor, two seperate power amps running everything, effects. We even mic'ed the kick drum It's pretty amazing what you can do when everyone puts their equipment together... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members paydirt Posted February 22, 2007 Members Share Posted February 22, 2007 Mackie mixer, crown power amp, and two 15" JBL's. Maybe we're louder than most? We blew the voice coil on one of my cheapie 12" PA speakers when we first started playing. Had to buy something that could handle the rock--enter: JBL's... I don't know how you guys can use guitar amps, keyboard amps, and whatnot. Maybe vocals play a more important role in bands I've been in, but a sufficient practice PA setup has been top priority for me when starting bands. Fortunately, most people I've played with have (collectively) accumulated quite a bit of equipment over the years... Hell, I remember in high school inmy old band, we used to practice in our singer's gigantic unfinished basement (we're talking like 1500+ sq. feet). The singer had two 15" JBL's stacked on some really old, huge, no-name speakers (they weighed about 150 pounds each--real install speakers). He had a monitor, I had a monitor, two seperate power amps running everything, effects. We even mic'ed the kick drum It's pretty amazing what you can do when everyone puts their equipment together... Not to mention, I'm sure the goal is to play live eventually, and you have to be prepared (especially in the beginning) to play at places that do not supply the PA. Not only that but as a guitarist I have buy my guitar, Amp, pedals, and whatever else I need, the singer can bring more than a mic into the equation. Get a decent PA that will do the job, (like I said I'd recommend at least a Mackie 800 w/ at least 2 15" JBL's). If you buy anything cheaper you will be replacing it within the year anyway. Bite the bullet, you won't be sorry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members GuyaGuy Posted February 22, 2007 Members Share Posted February 22, 2007 Not to mention, I'm sure the goal is to play live eventually, and you have to be prepared (especially in the beginning) to play at places that do not supply the PA. Not only that but as a guitarist I have buy my guitar, Amp, pedals, and whatever else I need, the singer can bring more than a mic into the equation. Get a decent PA that will do the job, (like I said I'd recommend at least a Mackie 800 w/ at least 2 15" JBL's). If you buy anything cheaper you will be replacing it within the year anyway. Bite the bullet, you won't be sorry. Not to mention, I'm sure the goal is to play live eventually, and you have to be prepared (especially in the beginning) to play at places that do not supply the PA. Not only that but as a guitarist I have buy my guitar, Amp, pedals, and whatever else I need, the singer can bring more than a mic into the equation. Get a decent PA that will do the job, (like I said I'd recommend at least a Mackie 800 w/ at least 2 15" JBL's). If you buy anything cheaper you will be replacing it within the year anyway. Bite the bullet, you won't be sorry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members SpectralJulian Posted February 22, 2007 Members Share Posted February 22, 2007 What do you play elevator music? No, I play rock and roll. With proper speaker positioning, 100W should be more than enough. Practice is practice- not a loudness competition. Practice is all about being in time and hitting the right notes and knowing what other people are doing. You don't have to crank your tube amps to get them saturated for your perfect tone. You aren't playing in front of an audience, you are simply trying to get stuff right. It is a little something called professionalism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members kittycaster Posted February 22, 2007 Members Share Posted February 22, 2007 Regardless of what kind of PA setup you end up getting, try having the whole band play to the vocals - when the vocalist is singing, play softer or quieter underneath the vocals; when the vocalist is not singing, open it up and rock out! If the band breathes like this, not only will you hear the vocalist but the band will sound better and the guitarists can continue using their 100watts! Dynamics! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members kittycaster Posted February 22, 2007 Members Share Posted February 22, 2007 But I admit, I do love it loud! Yes, she is playing through all that and more that you can't see cause I don't have a wide angle lens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Tweeker50 Posted February 22, 2007 Members Share Posted February 22, 2007 Here's a measure of how loud our rehearsals are: sometimes, instead of playing bass, I play 2nd guitar through a 30W tube Laney combo. I can't be heard through that thing until I'm up to 7 or 8 on the clean channel:( Earplugs are mandatory in this band...I prefer turning down and hearing balance and dynamics to having root canals...but everything's dialed in to match up with our drummer's volume, and she doesn't have a volume control...sometimes she plays so hard she'll physically burn herself out and get blisters after an hour or two. It's really quite atrocious but I'm not sure what I could do about it...Either way, that's an issue we have to tackle, vox or no vox. Any other equipment suggestions? It's good to hear that you "prefer turning down" and there is "an issue to tackle". In the meantime, equipment suggestions are (excuse the harsh analogy) nothing more than a placing a band aid on a spurting artery.Everything comes down to having a collective mind set. A previous suggestion was to focus the band on "playing to the vocals", it's a strategy worth trying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Mistersuperfly Posted February 22, 2007 Members Share Posted February 22, 2007 Hahaha... we practice with 2 ISP 1000 watt powered 3-way mains, a 32 channel A&H board, and a rack full of comps, eq's, and a driverack. It sounds good, and that's what matters... we are pretty loud though, it sounds just right when I have ear plugs in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members BloodTypeBlue Posted February 22, 2007 Author Members Share Posted February 22, 2007 Hm...it seems everyone is paying attention to the fact we need to turn down, which is certainly something none of us realize quite often enough...however as I said, as of this moment we have NO WAY of amplifying vocals. We've only got amps for the instruments. So turn down or no turn down, we're going to have to get some gear...so keep the suggestions coming please:wave: I've checked out the Crate Power Block, and putting that through a Marshall 410 my guitarist has kicking around might be a workable idea...who knows how cheap the cheapest PA setups are? The portable Fender ones seem to be $600...which seems a bit too expensive:o although I'm not paying for it, and I don't know how much our new singer is willing to spend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Mistersuperfly Posted February 22, 2007 Members Share Posted February 22, 2007 This should work too...http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/Behringer-KX1200-Keyboard-AmpPA-System?sku=701761V Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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