Oasys - Rumored price reduction

[XorAxAx]

Very interesting. It looks quite possible that you (or your authorized Korg [TM] service center) can upgrade the PC hardware in future years, with appropriate software support.

I wonder if Korg would take the high road on this, or screw all the OASYS owners.

[MartinHines]

I wonder if Korg would take the high road on this, or screw all the OASYS owners.

 

 

It would be HIGHLY unusual for an MI company to attempt to undertake such a significant "core hardware" upgrade.

 

This wouldn't really be that different than Yamaha offering Motif owners a "hardware upgrade" to the Motif ES, or Roland Fantom S customers a "hardware upgrade" to a Fantom X.

 

This wouldn't be a situation of "screwing the OASYS" owners, but merely reality. The reality of the MI industry is that core hardware upgrades come via new products.

 

It would simply be too costly and too much of an organizational and logistical nightmare to upgrade ANY keyboard, including the OASYS.

 

The big advantage the OASYS has is its generic Pentium processor and 2 GB of memory can support new instruments/samples/effects via a software upgrade. However, its hardware sets an eventual upper boundary in terms of the software that can run on it.

[Guest Anonymous]

 

It would be HIGHLY unusual for an MI company to attempt to undertake such a significant "core hardware" upgrade. This wouldn't really be that different than Yamaha offering Motif owners a "hardware upgrade" to the Motif ES, or Roland Fantom S customers a "hardware upgrade" to a Fantom X. This wouldn't be a situation of "screwing the OASYS" owners, but merely reality. The reality of the MI keyboard industry is that core hardware upgrades come via new products. It would simply be too costly and too much of a organizational and logistical nightmare to upgrade ANY keyboard, including the OASYS.

 

 

Hey. Martin. I played it. I liked it. Do you have one? Do you have any demos or songs made with it? I would be interested in hear songs made with it.

 

Thanks

[MartinHines]

I would be interested in hear songs made with it.

 

Mike Conway owns one, and he uses his OASYS in scores he writes for the films he produces:

http://www.terrariumthemovie.com/

[Guest Anonymous]

 

-- Yes -- Yes, but not for public consumption (i.e. when I say I am a hobbyist, I REALLY mean it). Mike Conway owns one, and he uses his OASYS in scores he writes for the films he produces: http://www.terrariumthemovie.com/

 

 

Ok. Thanks.

 

But when you use it do you feel so much power flowing thru your body and soul?

 

I kind of felt like that when I tested one 4 days ago.

 

I wish they were not as expensive.

[NuSkoolTone]

It would be HIGHLY unusual for an MI company to attempt to undertake such a significant "core hardware" upgrade. This wouldn't really be that different than Yamaha offering Motif owners a "hardware upgrade" to the Motif ES, or Roland Fantom S customers a "hardware upgrade" to a Fantom X. This wouldn't be a situation of "screwing the OASYS" owners, but merely reality. The reality of the MI industry is that core hardware upgrades come via new products. It would simply be too costly and too much of an organizational and logistical nightmare to upgrade ANY keyboard, including the OASYS. The big advantage the OASYS has is its generic Pentium processor and 2 GB of memory can support new instruments/samples/effects via a software upgrade. However, its hardware sets an eventual upper boundary in terms of the software that can run on it.

 

 

Aside from organizing the lowest common denominator, I have to disagree here. The heart of the Motif and Fantom are not off the shelf parts, where the OA$Y$, IS. Granted, there is additional custom ASICs and DSP on the OA$Y$, but the "core" as you put it is pretty standard stuff. If they updated the OS to accept a new chipset (Which the O only uses a few functions from I would think) and processor I think it would be quite doable. They would obviously have to choose ONE particular motherboard/CPU to use that everyone would have to buy for the swap. Even so who knows there MAY be some flexibility there.

 

The issue is fragmentation of the OS into two separate entities, one that supports the old, and one that supports the new. UNLESS of course, the newer OS could accommodate either which I also think is "Doable". There may need to be start up instructions for the user to setup the bios on the MB, which could be tricky if there is no way (?) to hook up a keyboard or use the OA$Y$ buttons to interface with it.

 

In short, if it extended the O's relevance and gave it a lifespan like Kurzweil's K 2xxx series, I'd be quite happy. In this scenario, not only would you fight obsolesence from a software perspective, but ALSO from a hardware perspective. Now since I don't know what role the ASICs and DSPs have vs. the P4, I can't say how far this could be taken. If the P4 is doing ALL the sound generation, I can't see why it couldn't be done or wouldn't be done other than for Korg to make more money selling a new product. As Martin said there is probably an upper limit to this. I'll say for that kind of money I'd like to see my investment go as far as it can!

[MartinHines]

Aside from organizing the lowest common denominator, I have to disagree here. The heart of the Motif and Fantom are not off the shelf parts, where the OA$Y$, IS. Granted, there is additional custom ASICs and DSP on the OA$Y$, but the "core" as you put it is pretty standard stuff. If they updated the OS to accept a new chipset (Which the O only uses a few functions from I would think) and processor I think it would be quite doable. They would obviously have to choose ONE particular motherboard/CPU to use that everyone would have to buy for the swap. Even so who knows there MAY be some flexibility there.

 

 

Japanese keyboard manufacturers (as least from my point of view) are very thorough, conservative and risk-adverse. The keyboard products they release go through a multi-year development process, and once they create something and release it, they really don't want to attempt to change it.

 

A "retrofit" is theoretically possible, but I just don't see it happening given the cost and effort involved. The "industry norm" is to put upgraded hardware in new products.

 

It would be great if Korg did something like that (assuming they plan to ever release another OASYS iteration in the first place) but:

-- I wouldn't expect it

-- A person shouldn't buy an OASYS with the expectation of its hardware ever being upgraded

 

If it ever happened, it would be an expensive proposition. With the MI industry markups, you could figure on a 3x-5x markup on the cost of parts, plus technician labor hours (they would never let a user do it). This assumes that markup would be sufficient to cover all of Korg's costs (research, software development, testing, communication, fulfillment, and service technician training). Also, the pool of potential upgraders would be less than the total number of OASYS owners (some of which would simply choose not to upgrade), and given the OASYS is a low-volume keyboard to begin with, those costs would have to be absorbed by a small number of upgraders.

 

After thinking about everything that would have to be done, I can see why the norm is simply to introduce a new product.

 

 

P.S. -- Having said the above, I should mention that Korg can easily introduce new instruments/samples/effects for the OASYS for years to come without hitting the limits of the current hardware.

[asynchro_nous]

Martin -- any idea how many have been sold thus far?

[MartinHines]

Martin -- any idea how many have been sold thus far?

 

 

Korg Japan considers the OASYS 76 and OASYS 88 to be two separate products, and therefore each product has its own set of serial numbers (manufacturing started with 000001).

 

Back in January 2006, Stephen Kay created a "Find your Evil/Good OASYS Twin" thread where OASYS owners could submit their model and Serial Number:

http://www.karma-lab.com/forum/showthread.php?threadid=6456

 

Based on that information, we can tell that Korg Japan has manufactured at least 2,651 OASYS keyboards to date (which would represent a little over $22 million in potential retail sales).

 

The number could be larger, since the accuracy of this figure depends on OASYS users actually finding the thread and posting to it (e.g. Jordan Rudess owns 3 OASYS 88's but has never submitted his serial numbers -- LOL), and also depends on OASYS users with the highest serial numbers (most recently manufactured) posting to the thread.

 

In any event, the numbers show the OASYS is a low volume keyboard.

[G-bus v2.0]

[Mike Conway]

I would be interested in hear songs made with it.

 

 

Some snippets and programs can be heard on Post #131, on the KSS Synth Demos thread.

[Guest Anonymous]

Go easy, young synth padawan, I think your Midi-chlorians are flaring up. Don't give in to hate. That power can lead to the dark side.... of your wallet! Some snippets and programs can be heard on Post #131, on the KSS Synth Demos thread.

 

 

Thanks for the link. Hey, you have a good sense of humor.

[Miket156]

Product obsolescence is something that really concerns me. The time period that mfg's are supporting an existing system seems to be getting shorter. Example: the Yamaha Motif had a 2 year life cycle and it was replaced by the Motif ES series with a 3 year life cycle, and now Yamaha introduced the XS series. Yamaha also has decided to discontinue the PLG expansion boards because they are "old" technology. I realize that products are not going to last forever. There is so much competition in the industry that vendors have to put out new products to keep up with their competitors or have their market share taken by another company. What I don't like is the limited life cycle. I'm afraid I will never get to purchase the PLG cards I would like before Yamaha stops making them. I'm not rolling in the $$ so I just can't run out and buy every card that I might be interested in adding to my Motif ES. Yamaha decided to "fix" what is not so good about the ES with a new model. Fine, but dropping the ES after only 3 years from announcement to replacement doesn't give me much incentive to buy a new Yamaha product next time around.

 

I would think that a 5 year usable life cycle wouldn't be too much to ask.

 

Mike T.

[Whop Yo Jaw!]

Miket156

You should base the usable life cycle of an instrument on YOUR music-making standards rather than the manufacturer's profit-based ones. I like capitalism and all, but obsession over the "newest and best" will take away time and energy better spent on music. Everyone's priorities are different, and some people seem to love and live for the "upgrade game," which I don't see anything wrong with. What are your priorities?

edit: The internet makes it way too easy to suck you in...searching for every freakin discussion, every darn review by lord knows who, the lowest tax-free price you can get on a product, etc. After spending hours doing that, I N-ever feel as good as I do spending hours fumbling around with sliders and buttons and keys.

[NuSkoolTone]

A "retrofit" is theoretically possible, but I just don't see it happening given the cost and effort involved. The "industry norm" is to put upgraded hardware in new products. It would be great if Korg did something like that (assuming they plan to ever release another OASYS iteration in the first place) but: -- I wouldn't expect it -- A person shouldn't buy an OASYS with the expectation of its hardware ever being upgraded If it ever happened, it would be an expensive proposition. With the MI industry markups, you could figure on a 3x-5x markup on the cost of parts, plus technician labor hours (they would never let a user do it). This assumes that markup would be sufficient to cover all of Korg's costs (research, software development, testing, communication, fulfillment, and service technician training). Also, the pool of potential upgraders would be less than the total number of OASYS owners (some of which would simply choose not to upgrade), and given the OASYS is a low-volume keyboard to begin with, those costs would have to be absorbed by a small number of upgraders.

 

I see your point. But do you REALLY think it would be that expensive? There's a good chance the coding necessary to allow such an upgrade would be minimal.

 

I'm also saying that you could simply download the new OS for a nominal cost (If not for free, I mean hey, it WAS $8k+!) and the user could purchase the MASS PRODUCED common motherboard/Processor (Just like the one in there NOW) on their own. So there is NO 3x-5x markup here. Besides, we would blatantly see Korg's markup if they forced users to buy it from them and would cry foul.

 

So really, what would we be talking? MINIMAL tweaks to the OS to accept another chosen motherboard/processor, The user purchasing the hardware, and documentation to perform the upgrade. The only downside is an increase in support for those incapable of doing it/screw it up. So there's a risk. I've been building computers for YEARS, so I'll admit it's harder for me to keep joe blow's competence at this in perspective.

 

Further, even if you bought the parts, and had it done at an Authorized service center, how much do you really think they would (should) charge? $200 tops? For what's involved, probably less, more like the hour's labor.

 

The biggest thing for korg I think would be testing, and "Approving" a certain pair of hardware.

 

From this POV, this is certainly in great interest for the consumer. However this isn't nearly as lucrative or worthwhile for korg as selling a new product which is probably nearly the same with a streamlined case, updated converters and maybe some other goodies. THAT is why I wouldn't expect it either. Not to bang on korg, but I've NEVER seen them hand out a freebie or cheap upgrade, even if you handed over a golden purse up front. I'm sure I'm alone in this, but for $8k+, I would have expected these upgrades like the LAC-1(?) available for free, considered paid in advance. Other SMALLER companies do it, so why can't Korg? Answer: They simply don't want to.

 

I apologize for the rant and fanning the flames, it just got me thinking.

 

Of course, this is all ASSUMING the sound generation is primarily from the CPU and NOT much

by the ASICs and DSPs on board. Otherwise the whole concept of this "Upgrade" is moot!

[Bach42t]

I am sure Korg probably didn't buy up several thousand Pentium 4 motherboards. The processor at this point is not an issue. They could easily place a Duo chipset in there for later on. I mean what is the point of having an upgrade kit for something like the Oasys?? How will it benefit?? The only thing I see necessary would be a hard drive upgrade and even that is not totally an issue. I think where the planners at Korg may have slipped is integrating firewire. I don't see this even being a really huge issue since the Oasys cannot be recognized by any computer program as a VST. I would encourage anybody that is considering an Oasys, or has one in the 2,000 and beyond serial number to take a look at the motherboard inside. I am certainly curious if they don't move onto other chipsets since it's not the hardware that's a big deal, it's the O.S. and how it utilizes its efficiency with the respective hardware.

[Miket156]

Quote by Whop Ya Jaw:

--------------------------------------

You should base the usable life cycle of an instrument on YOUR music-making standards rather than the manufacturer's profit-based ones.

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Yeah, that was the drift of my post. Instrument life cycles are getting shorter because mfg are bringing new models to market, which means support for the existing instrument usually falls by the wayside. As I mentioned in my original post, I'm not in the financial position to get into the upgrade scam. My Motif ES8 sounds great and does what I need it to do. I'm just concerned that Yamaha won't support it as long as i need to keep it.

 

Mike T.