1 patchbay. 48 holes. Cable goes where?

[Yoozer]

And 12 balanced patchcables.

 

Right, it's not often that I ask questions, but "patchbay" sucks as a search keyword when there's network and MIDI versions of 'm, since I'm talking about the audio variant here.

 

I also think this is an enlightening lesson in a world that generally thinks scoring the newest synth or a vintage monster is far more important than learning how to mix/multitrack, having decent monitors and using effects.

 

So, here goes. Your mission, should you choose to accept it, is to use a graphics program (like the most excellent Paint.Net because the Windows built-in piece of crap stinks) and show me how I patch this bay (it's this thing here).

 

 

If it helps you, you may replace "generic synth" with "lol, {censored}ty VA" .

[urbanscallywag]

Too small picture. Cannot see!

[donaldcrunk]

are we talking a normalled, non - normalled, or half normalled bay here? like one of the neutrik models with switchable cards?

[Yoozer]

 

are we talking a normalled, non - normalled, or half normalled bay here? like one of the neutrik models with switchable cards?

 

 

We're talking about a Neutrik NYS-SPP L here, aka this thing: http://www.zzounds.com/item--NTKNYSSPPL

It's got diagrams on top but I'm completely clueless on what they're supposed to tell me.

[urbanscallywag]

http://homepage.mac.com/nicksdsu/kss/patch.png

[urbanscallywag]

This is for not normalled connections.

 

input to output would be a bad thing.

[Yoozer]

http://homepage.mac.com/nicksdsu/kss/patch.png

 

Thanks! .

 

Now... how would I find out about the normal/non-normal/half-normal stuff? (I haven't moved anything around). Also, I recall the Behringer patchbays to have switches on top to handle this.

 

Also, I don't need any cables on the front?

 

Edit: Sound On Sound to the rescue - or not. After reading this here I don't really feel any smarter about the entire matter. Crap .

[Khazul]

What exact model of patch bay do you have?

 

Basically:

 

Audio sources to mixer - ie synths etc:

- In from source at rear upper, Out to mixer from rear lower - Patch bay mode = Normal (or half normal)

 

Insert FX (that are not normally connected to anything by default)

- Out from fx unit at rear upper, In to the FX unit at rear lower, patch bay mode = Through

 

The FX routing sounds a little odd, but I like to allways have signal coming out of upper row on front and going into lower row on front.

 

For an explanation of patch bays - this SOS article is worth a read. also this one.

[urbanscallywag]

Oh yeah I'll do the front cables later.

 

Basically an un normalled bay will have short cables going from top to bottom of channels 1 and 2.

 

If you wanted to route to effects hit top channel 1-2 to top of 47-48 (or where ever I routed effects in) and bottom 47-48 to bottom 1-2.

[mate_stubb]

Rule of thumb - outputs on the top row, inputs on the bottom. So for instance a top row could start out Synth1L, Synth1R, Synth2L, Synth2R, Synth3L, Synth3R. Then the row below it would be the mixer inputs you want to half normal it too: In1, In2, In3, In4, In5, In6.

 

Effects box outputs above mix effects sends, mix effects returns above effects box inputs, etc.

[T-Bot]

Yeah, outputs long the top, inputs along the bottom.

 

For a normalled patchbay, align the ouputs with the inputs that you most commonly use.

 

IE. If your synth outputs (1 & 2) go to mixer/audio interface inputs 1 & 2 then you would wire the synth outputs directly above the mixer inputs. In a normalled patchbay these would remain connected until you insert a patch cable and "repatch" them to somewhere else.

 

Effects outputs would go above the mixer auxillery returns (inputs), the mixer auxillery sends (outputs) would go above the effects unit inputs while following the "outputs along the top, inputs along the bottom" rule. On a normalled patchbay, this means the effects unit is automatically "defaulted" to the mixer aux sends and returns. To repatch it you just plug in some patch cables and sent it to the appropriate location.

[Superace25]

The product page at ZZsounds has a nifty diagram.

 

Basically, as long as nothing is plugged into the grey jack (lower row front) the signal travels from the top back to top front and back bottom.

 

when you patch something on the front, go from top row to bottom row. once you connect something to front bottom, it goes straight through to back bottom.

 

Or so it seems.... check out the diagram.

[G-bus v2.0]

Given the single synth and single effects unit, I'd do it this way:

 

But that's just me.

[mate_stubb]

[mytee2.0]

 

haha, I just got the "badump" image

 

classic!

[MartinHines]

This person purchased the same product and had the same question:

http://www.sweetwater.com/forums/showthread.php?t=8310&highlight=audio+patchbay

 

That thread references two other links:

http://www.neutrikusa.com/start.asp

http://www.neutrikusa.com/images/ock/products/downloads/210_460038209.pdf

 

 

Here is the product page (perhaps you saw this already):

http://www.neutrik.com/content/products/level03.aspx?id=204_844827625&catId=CatMSDE_audio

http://www.neutrik.com/content/technicalsupport/faq.aspx?faqId=205_1541767801

 

I also found these:

http://homerecording.com/patchbay.html

http://www.stretta.com/~matthew/resources/rackwire/patchbay.html

http://groups.msn.com/TheHomeRecordingEnthusiast/thepatchbay.msnw

 

Based on what I read, you connect your "audio devices" through the back and then interconnect them using patch cables on the front. The key appears to be clearly labelling the front so you "know" which ports a specific device uses. I assume that is why one of those links is for labeling software.

[Umbra]

All my out's are routed to the top (plugged into top in back), all my in's are routed to the bottom (plugged into bottom on back). There is no connection between the two (forget what that's called). I can route any out to any in with a patch cable via the front. End of story.... almost.

 

Except for the f'ed up PER's that were improperly designed and wont let you have a cable in their main out and individual out at the same time. Which means if I want to use those I have to do a ton of screwing around with loads of cables since I have 3 PER's and that means 12 pairs of cables no including the 3 pairs of main outs.

 

But I digress, patchbays are simple, I have two 48 point patch bays for a total of 96 in and outs.

[ShakaCthulu]

I had a tough time with this too. You picked a very good patchbay BTW.

 

I found this site to be helpful: http://www.burninggrooves.com/articles/patchbays-explained-part-1

 

The Behringer pdfs for their patchbays are useful too.

 

Patchbays have many uses, how you'll set yours up depends alot upon what your studio is like, what you have, what you want to do, etc. My AP Audio patchbay came with a default setting of normalled. The AP Audio is modular, so you can switch the module around if you need half-normalled, parallel, or open/non-normalled (this is how Umbra has his set up, the signal passes through and that's it, no internal connection). I think your Neutrik may be similar in design to my AP. My first eight modules are normalled and are hardwired to my mixer inputs....top back - cables from synth outputs, bottom back - cable to inputs on mixer. This is what I put my most used gear on, namely an MC909 and Nord Lead 2. Then I have several "open" modules that are for synths that I use only occasionally...ESQ1 outs are module 9, (outputs of the ESQ connected to back plugs of 9, then I can route that around how I want from the front), JV1080 outs on 10 and 11, and so on...then the ins and outs of various mono signal effects pedals/units..top plug = effect out, bottom plug = effect in. Of course, this is a pretty simplistic use of a patchbay...but it keeps me from crawling around pluggin this into that and tripping over cables. I haven't even gotten into inserts, effects sends, bussing...mainly because my mixer sucks it.

[Yoozer]

But I digress, patchbays are simple, I have two 48 point patch bays for a total of 96 in and outs.

 

They are probably when it all clicks up here, but I found the SoS article about 'm rather disappointing - no pictures - and the term "half-normalized" is sensible from an EE's perspective - but not to someone who's not in the know about this. I think I'm going to write a howto about this myself - everyone's links were a lot of help, but they're more about the theoretical than the hands-on approach IMHO.

 

When it dawned on me that I had to actually unscrew this thing and flip the PCBs around I felt very Walters . I'm apparently even lucky with this because some require actual soldering. Ye gods.

[donaldcrunk]

When it dawned on me that I had to actually unscrew this thing and flip the PCBs around I felt very Walters . I'm apparently even lucky with this because some require actual soldering. Ye gods.

 

indeed. i was in the same boat as you when i first got my neutrik. had to sit down and draw quite a few diagrams.

 

now i have a 96 pt TT patchbay, and that's even worse

[urbanscallywag]

I never thought about doing outs on top and ins on bottom.

[donaldcrunk]

 

I never thought about doing outs on top and ins on bottom.

 

 

that's generally the 'standard studio practice'. Channel inserts start on the top left and are normalled to comps or gates or whatever, and continue on down the line, with effects normalled to Aux sends after you get past the channel insert section.

 

but yeah in a mixer-less processing/synth/audio card environment it doesn't matter i don't think.

 

just spin those cards around so the grey jack is on the bottom-back and you're good to go with no normalling whatsoever!

[Umbra]

 

I'm apparently even lucky with this because some require actual soldering.

Not sure why anyone would buy one of those these days.

 

But once you get it setup you'll realize it really is very simple.

 

You do need a diagram or you have to write on the patchbay so you can keep straight what is what after it's setup and it's probably worth comming up with a convention on how to document out your patch cables that gets saved in the DAW with each song so you can go back to a setup if you need to. I have a diagram I built in word that tells me what points are what and then I have a track naming convention in cubase that tells me patch routing.

 

I really really wish someone would put out a high end patch bay that could be configured on a PC via USB to control the routing. Something that would digitally let us save a routing configuration for a song, etc. and wouldn't require any patch cables since those connections would be done digitally. I suppose the cost for decent AD/DA in that case would be pretty high though. A nice set of LCD displays showing the routing on the front of the patchbay would be cool too.

[urbanscallywag]

that's generally the 'standard studio practice'. Channel inserts start on the top left and are normalled to comps or gates or whatever, and continue on down the line, with effects normalled to Aux sends after you get past the channel insert section. but yeah in a mixer-less processing/synth/audio card environment it doesn't matter i don't think. just spin those cards around so the grey jack is on the bottom-back and you're good to go with no normalling whatsoever!

I see, I see.

[mate_stubb]

The term "normal" merely means thing A is "normally" connected to thing B without having to plug in an external patch cable to do it.

 

This term applies to modular synthesizer connections as well as patchbays - an Arp 2600 is the most famous example of a semi-modular normalled synth.