Korg M3 73 + RADIAS... a winning combination?

[Superace25]

Ok, so Korg had the spiffy idea of making semi-dedicated keyboards with specialized mounts for proprietary sound modules. The new M3 is billed to allow you to expand it with various versions of the RADIAS. Let me know if I've got this straight:

 

M3 61: M3 unit, EXB-RADIAS expansion board (monotimbral)

M3 73: M3 unit, Radias Rack, EXB-radias expansion

M3 88: M3 unit, Second M3 unit or Radias Rack, Exb-radias, second exb-radias (for second M3)

 

What do you all think about this idea? Would having the extra RADIAS module significantly improve the M3?

 

In a bit of a side note, it seems that this explains some of the weird stuff about the RADIAS, like the top-mounted plugs on the rack version (rear mount when used with the M3) and the proprietary "to keyboard" connector, which I assume will be used to slave it to the M3.

[Umbra]

 

What do you all think about this idea? Would having the extra RADIAS module significantly improve the M3?

You have to decide that for yourself.

 

 

In a bit of a side note, it seems that this explains some of the weird stuff about the RADIAS, like the top-mounted plugs on the rack version (rear mount when used with the M3)

Not really. There is no reason the plugs on top couldn't have been recessed so it works better in a rack.

 

This isn't anything particularly innovative here. It's nothing more than the next generation version of the MOSS board in the tritons.

[gdh]

I have a Radias with kbd and luv it. Based only on the videos I've seen/heard they do seem made for each other. But... I would want to have a few hours alone with the M3 to see if I wanted to purchase it, if the presets are the same as most they won't do the bd. justice. I would have to see just how the 2 could be best integrated together. I had never owned a Korg before the Radias and for my needs I truely am happy with the purchase and would do so again.

[Superace25]

 

This isn't anything particularly innovative here. It's nothing more than the next generation version of the MOSS board in the tritons.

 

 

So you feel that the use of semi-modular hardware is mainly a gimmick?

 

It seems that if the ports on the RADIAS were recessed, then they would be difficult to access when attached to an M3.

 

I wonder how the M3's VA section holds up; they might have cut it back, thinking that anyone who actually wanted that feature would add the Radias module or expansion card.

[swandiver]

At least the MOSS board was multi-timbral. The monotimbrality of the Radias EXB is probably the single biggest reason I'm *not* seriously considering getting an M3.

[Tony Scharf]

I already have a radias rack, and I *may* be tempted into an M3 when I get to actually play one. the big factor will be space - I would love to have a 76 note controller in the studio again, but if its freekin huge....ill have to pass.

 

Still..I bet it will look damn impressive.

[Diametro]

It won't be ... it's only a 73 key! (I want one but probably don't need it at all.)

[Superace25]

I already have a radias rack, and I *may* be tempted into an M3 when I get to actually play one. the big factor will be space - I would love to have a 76 note controller in the studio again, but if its freekin huge....ill have to pass.

 

Right now I use an old Yamaha S80 as my main controller... the thing weights 50 pounds, and I drag it to gigs. I do my sequencing an a crap laptop that I don't trust live, so I've been thinking that downsizing to a 70-something workstation would be a good idea, as long as the action is good enough that I can play piano without too much trouble.

 

I have the Radias in sight for an eventual upgrade from my X-station for VA stuff, so the M3-Radias combo just might be the ticket for me. Of course, that's going to be something like $4000 all told. Fortunately, I'll be out of college with a "real job" by the time the first price drop rolls around.

[Yoozer]

At least the MOSS board was multi-timbral. The monotimbrality of the Radias EXB is probably the single biggest reason I'm *not* seriously considering getting an M3.

It's not monotimbral if I understood correctly; the wording was just borked up. You get all the parts you got in the Radias - 4. From the Fine Manual: "Up to four synth programs + vocoder section (maximum 16 timbres/tracks, can be combined with EDS programs)".

 

Anyway, yes, you'll sacrifice the Radias' knobs, but having full Karma should make up for that a bit .

[vanillawafer]

Ok, now I'm confused So are you all saying there are two ways to add the RADIAS to the M3? Either the expansion board or the actual RADIAS rack unit?

[Diametro]

Yes ... and having both might not actually be overkill ... but the internal radias will obviously work much better with the Karma unit ...

[Superace25]

Yes ... and having both might not actually be overkill ... but the internal radias will obviously work much better with the Karma unit ...

 

Aha! see, this is where I think that bizarre "to keyboard" jack on the Radias comes in. Karma is supposed to be MIDI'd wherever you want, but I agree that it'd be more flexible with something proprietary, like the expansion cord or the strange "to keyboard" jack on the Radias module.

 

edit: This appears to be incorrect. The 73- and 88-key M3 Keyboards have two "to module" cables, so the M3 module doesn't actually link directly to the Radias module, unless they have some kind of gadgetry to do so installed in the keyboard module.

[Jerrythek]

 

It's not monotimbral if I understood correctly; the wording was just borked up. You get all the parts you got in the Radias - 4. From the Fine Manual: "Up to four synth programs + vocoder section (maximum 16 timbres/tracks, can be combined with EDS programs)".

 

 

Yes, the EXB-RADIAS offers 4-part multi-timbrality.

 

The wording difference came because a RADIAS Program can be up to 4-timbres, and an EXB-RADIAS Program is 1 timbre. And you can use 4 of them at the same time in the M3.

 

A few of the main difference between the hardware RADIAS and the EXB-RADIAS board include the fact that the RADIAS has a drum-kit structure and PCM as part of the oscillator waveformselections, and the EXB-RADIAS does not.

 

The RADIAS has step-sequencer modulation and an arpeggiator, the EXB-RADIAS does not, but can be driven by KARMA. the EXB-RADIAS uses the M3's effects system, the RADIAS module has its own.

 

Hope this helps.

 

Regards,

 

Jerry

 

Korg Guy

[Jerrythek]

You would use a MIDI cable to link them if you want to sequence the RADIAS-R from the M3's sequencer. Or if you want to create Combinations that call up the right sound from the RADIAS-R.

 

If you just want to play them you can use the "to keyboard" connection.

 

regards,

 

Jerry

 

Korg Guy

 

Aha! see, this is where I think that bizarre "to keyboard" jack on the Radias comes in. Karma is supposed to be MIDI'd wherever you want, but I agree that it'd be more flexible with something proprietary, like the expansion cord or the strange "to keyboard" jack on the Radias module. edit: This appears to be incorrect. The 73- and 88-key M3 Keyboards have two "to module" cables, so the M3 module doesn't actually link directly to the Radias module, unless they have some kind of gadgetry to do so installed in the keyboard module.

[Khazul]

 

I wonder how the M3's VA section holds up; they might have cut it back, thinking that anyone who actually wanted that feature would add the Radias module or expansion card.

 

 

What VA section? The M3 is just a rompler. You can get a VA synth plugin board for it that is same synth engine as the radias, but with a few feature differences.

 

As the the radias rack being attachable to it - of course its a very good idea - how many of us have rack synths parked on top of blank spaces on other synth because its so convenient to have the controls nearby?

 

Beyond simply being able to mount the radias r on the M3 73/88 keyboards, I dont beleive there is any further integration between them beyond being able to midi slave it.

[Yoozer]

 

A few of the main difference between the hardware RADIAS and the EXB-RADIAS board include the fact that the RADIAS has a drum-kit structure and PCM as part of the oscillator waveformselections, and the EXB-RADIAS does not.

 

This is because the M3 has a sampler in there already, right?

[Superace25]

What VA section? The M3 is just a rompler. You can get a VA synth plugin board for it that is same synth engine as the radias, but with a few feature differences.

 

Yes, you're right. Sorry, I got confused b/c the manual refers to "oscillators." They're all samples though, not waves. My bad.

[MartinHines]

 

Beyond simply being able to mount the radias r on the M3 73/88 keyboards, I dont beleive there is any further integration between them beyond being able to midi slave it.

 

 

Just to clarify, the M3-73 and M3-88 have 2 "TO MODULE" connectors (the M3-61 only has one). This allows you to physically connect the "keyboard part" to 2 modules at the same time (without any midi cables).

 

This implies (to me) that physically playing the keyboard generates midi data which would be sent to BOTH modules at the same time.

 

What is unclear to me is how this would work in practical terms since you would want to be able to control it as desired. For example:

-- sometimes you would want playing to only go to M3-M

-- sometimes you would want playing to only go to Radias

-- sometimes you would want playing to go to both M3-M and Radias (like a 2 keyboard "combi").

[Khazul]

 

Just to clarify, the M3-73 and M3-88 have 2 "TO MODULE" connectors (the M3-61 only has one). This allows you to physically connect the "keyboard part" to 2 modules at the same time (without any midi cables). This implies (to me) that physically playing the keyboard generates midi data which would be sent to BOTH modules at the same time. What is unclear to me is how this would work in practical terms since you would want to be able to control it as desired. For example: -- sometimes you would want playing to only go to M3-M -- sometimes you would want playing to only go to Radias -- sometimes you would want playing to go to both M3-M and Radias (like a 2 keyboard "combi").

 

 

 

I would guess you have to setup key ranges in each sound module independently. With the radias you can easily set what key ranges a timbre (1 of 4 timbres) responds to.

 

What I am more interested in is what radias-r specific support there might be within the M3 sequencer for driving the Radias R directly with MIDI, for eg CC naming etc.

[born2die75]

from the korg.com webpage

 

The M3 music workstation/sampler introduces the new Korg Komponent System, featuring detachable keyboard and sound generator sections. The 61-key model lets you mount a RADIAS-R analog modeling synthesizer instead of the M3-M sound generator, the 73-key model lets you mount the M3-M together with a RADIAS-R analog modeling synthesizer, and the 88-key model supports the combination of M3-M and RADIAS-R or even mounting two M3-M units simultaneously. Of course you can detach the M3-M sound generator and use it as a sound module, giving you great flexibility for constructing the system you need whenever you want.

[Khazul]

 

from the korg.com webpage ...

 

 

Yeh - think most of us who are interested in this beastie have allready read that a dozen times...

[flat earth]

...still no picture of the M3-76 with Radias-R on board

[Superace25]

...still no picture of the M3-76 with Radias-R on board

 

No picture of how the EXB-RADIAS expansion installs in the basic M3 unit either.

 

While we're wishing for more propaganda, how about some new M3-Karma videos? The OASYS ones are supposed to apply, but the M3 does have different controllers (namely, it loses the row of knobs above the sliders and the second joystick. Still, it's supposed to have "full implementation" of the OASYS Karma v2, so perhaps there are simply more stacked functions?

[Umbra]

 

So you feel that the use of semi-modular hardware is mainly a gimmick?

I never said gimmick. I said not particularly innovative as they did it in the previous generation.

 

My only guess as to why there would be a proprietary connector would be that they are running at a higher bandwidth than midi allows to prevent timing issues. If all they are really doing is sending midi through that special connection the engineer responsible for that at korg should be shot for unstandardizing a standard.

 

To be honest though I am having a really hard time not selling a bunch of crappy old gear to fund a rack.

[Whop Yo Jaw!]

No picture of how the EXB-RADIAS expansion installs in the basic M3 unit either.

 

Details are laid out in the manual. Download the M3 Operations Manual here and look on pg. 240.