Members Jacek Posted March 26, 2008 Members Share Posted March 26, 2008 You're in church and you think about the girls dressing room? Nice... :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members CaptHowdy Posted March 26, 2008 Members Share Posted March 26, 2008 You're in church and you think about the girls dressing room? Nice... :-)Ehm.... Yep. Heaven sent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members grayeyes777 Posted March 26, 2008 Members Share Posted March 26, 2008 micing a small amp sounds like a good compromise option to me. +1. Tell your church to quit being geys. I play at the loudest church ever though. I wear earplugs even when our bishop is preaching it's so loud... LOL. Seriously, guitar doesn't sound good direct. Get a small amp with clean headroom and make them put a mic on it. Run your pedals into that. If there's still a problem then face your amp sideways or backwards, put a case in front or in back or get some plexiglass to keep the sound from going out. Do you guys have drums and if so are they electric? I hate it when churches are so uptight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members picker13 Posted March 26, 2008 Members Share Posted March 26, 2008 You could always get an isolation box, like this:Great tone, low to minimal volume, even cranked! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members andreas Posted March 26, 2008 Members Share Posted March 26, 2008 Keeping the stage volume in control is always an issue, regardless of the venue. Personally, whenever I get asked to DI the guitar straight to PA (some people think it's the same deal as with bass guitars), I usually point to the entire rig and say "This is my instrument. You don't ask the saxophone player to use only the moutpiece, so why should I cut out half my instrument?" I will usually bring my own mic as well (Sennheiser E906 ), to further drive the point home. On occasion, I will go direct if the situation really requires it. But that's something that needs to be arranged beforehand - I need to put together a DI rig for that specific gig. For me, the key to going DI is to not even bother with pedals - they will never sound the same as through the amp anyway, so I'd much rather spend time getting one or two decent sounds from a PODxt, than get disappointed using my pedals. A POD will not react the same to boosters etc as the real-life amp it's simulating would... If everything else is DI (even the drums), with headphone or in-ear monitoring, I'd consider going DI as well, just to stay in the pocket. With virtually no stage volume at all as support, being the only one with amplification can feel a bit lopsided. Of course, you could turn down your amp to whisper levels, frame it with plexiglass and mike it - but that'd probably not bring out the best from the amp anyway. Tough call... how much stage volume is there from the other instruments? That's the key, I think - if you can make sure your amp won't drown out the natural stage level of the other instruments (and still sound good), there's no reason why you shouldn't be able to mike the amp. If not, DI is probably your only solution (and with it, a whole different approach to getting your sound). /Andreas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members grayeyes777 Posted March 26, 2008 Members Share Posted March 26, 2008 Keeping the stage volume in control is always an issue, regardless of the venue. Personally, whenever I get asked to DI the guitar straight to PA (some people think it's the same deal as with bass guitars), I usually point to the entire rig and say "This is my instrument. You don't ask the saxophone player to use only the moutpiece, so why should I cut out half my instrument?" I will usually bring my own mic as well (Sennheiser E906 ), to further drive the point home.+1. there is never a point where i say, "ok, i'll run direct." I'll tell you to screw yourself before that happens. We need to be respectful volume wise and if they don't want it facing out then you should work with them... but a mic on an amp is the only way guitar sounds good live. period. The only time i've ever run direct is when an amp breaks or if backline falls through somehow (and it's only ever been twice or so). Other than that i'd rather not play then sound like crap. I'll walk if it's that big of an issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members cg_25 Posted March 26, 2008 Members Share Posted March 26, 2008 What kind of amp do you have? If it's a tube amp of more than 20W, consider an attentuator or getting a lower watt amp. Also, get an amp mic (I like my Sennheiser e906). If your amp is mic'd they'll feel like they have more control over your volume. lol, Ok!?! I tried to pull off that one and got yelled at becuase my mic was "picking up ambient noise". Yeah right! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members cg_25 Posted March 26, 2008 Members Share Posted March 26, 2008 What makes me mad is that at my church they won't let us use an amp either. They always complain. And I mean ALWAYS!If I place my amp out (it's usually on a stand made of milk-crates) it sits at a level where the soundwaves travel directly to the back where our sound man sits (he is elevated at the level of the stage), and he thinks I'm too loud. Then if I put it infront of me and aim it back (liek a wedge) the sound waves bounce of the back wall, becasue it's a flat painted surface . We used to have a cloth that was perfect and dampered all the noise but it wasn't fire-proof and the fire-marshall told us we had to take it down. Apparently the wall behind the stage is a fire-wall becasue it seperates the main audiotrium from the daycare/rest of the church.Anyways now I'm forced to run direct into the PA and use headphones. What I find stupid is that we still have floor wedges for the singers and the keyboardist uses his own amp. I generally am turned up becasue our sound guy can trust me. Sometimes I'll take my headphones off and I can hear myself coming from the PA or from the keyboardists monitor! people complain alot that our drums are too loud. Apparently we have a loud drumset? They made this box, yes a box and a box has 6 sides, for our drummer. It has sound foam on the inside and the bottom is solid and carpeted while the top half is plexi-glass. There is tubing in the corners of the plexi-glass and the cover is a sheet of heavy material!^ The drummers all call it the death-box or magnifying glass. It gets so hot in there. There is no freaking ventalation! None! The cage is such an eyesore. I'd go on but I think you get the picture Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members grayeyes777 Posted March 26, 2008 Members Share Posted March 26, 2008 What makes me mad is that at my church they won't let us use an amp either. They always complain. And I mean ALWAYS! If I place my amp out (it's usually on a stand made of milk-crates) it sits at a level where the soundwaves travel directly to the back where our sound man sits (he is elevated at the level of the stage), and he thinks I'm too loud. Then if I put it infront of me and aim it back (liek a wedge) the sound waves bounce of the back wall, becasue it's a flat painted surface . We used to have a cloth that was perfect and dampered all the noise but it wasn't fire-proof and the fire-marshall told us we had to take it down. Apparently the wall behind the stage is a fire-wall becasue it seperates the main audiotrium from the daycare/rest of the church. Anyways now I'm forced to run direct into the PA and use headphones. What I find stupid is that we still have floor wedges for the singers and the keyboardist uses his own amp. I generally am turned up becasue our sound guy can trust me. Sometimes I'll take my headphones off and I can hear myself coming from the PA or from the keyboardists monitor! people complain alot that our drums are too loud. Apparently we have a loud drumset? They made this box, yes a box and a box has 6 sides, for our drummer. It has sound foam on the inside and the bottom is solid and carpeted while the top half is plexi-glass. There is tubing in the corners of the plexi-glass and the cover is a sheet of heavy material! ^ The drummers all call it the death-box or magnifying glass. It gets so hot in there. There is no freaking ventalation! None! The cage is such an eyesore. I'd go on but I think you get the picture Time for a new church. Like i said... throw the amp on the ground and mic it, then put a guitar case in between you and the sound man. then just have him turn you up in your wedge. then call him a {censored} if he still complains (unless you really are too loud). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members girevik Posted March 26, 2008 Members Share Posted March 26, 2008 lol, Ok!?! I tried to pull off that one and got yelled at becuase my mic was "picking up ambient noise". Yeah right! I take it the church doesn't have a choir then? Otherwise, the mics for the singers would also pick up ambient noise? Sounds like your church has an incompetent sound person. What a lame excuse indeed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members cg_25 Posted March 26, 2008 Members Share Posted March 26, 2008 Im not going to move churches just for that. I don't beleive you should run from your problems. I'm actually going to be talking to them about my situation tommorow! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Instrospection Posted March 26, 2008 Members Share Posted March 26, 2008 I play in the church of death blues. They, ironically, never tell me to turn down. My main amp is a Fender 140 old tube head (140 watts RMS, 300 peak). If the arena doesn't come to us when we play, we try to bring the arena to the venue.....there's loud, and then there's LOUD--phasers, tremolos, wahs, fuzz pedals all at ungodly levels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members cg_25 Posted March 26, 2008 Members Share Posted March 26, 2008 I take it the church doesn't have a choir then? Otherwise, the mics for the singers would also pick up ambient noise? Sounds like your church has an incompetent sound person. What a lame excuse indeed. Yes, we have a choir, on the team I am on. It's not that I hate people either. Everyone is really close and we tell each other when we have problems. Like if I think someone sucks or is too loud I tell them. The sound guy and I joke about how the choir members wisper things to each other yet the mic's still picks it up! I've already told them I hate the situation but I'm now going to get serious! When he said ambient noise, I think he meant it was picking up bass frequencies or something like that. Our bassits amp is always too loud but I can ignore it since I'm only really paying attention to the upper frequncies of my guitar:p And we have a very good soundman. Alot of places just have someone unexperienced. Our's actually went to school to learn about how to run professional audio. He also works with cars and specializes in mufflers (like the tone they produce) lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members girevik Posted March 26, 2008 Members Share Posted March 26, 2008 Yes, we have a choir, on the team I am on. It's not that I hate people either. Everyone is really close and we tell each other when we have problems. Like if I think someone sucks or is too loud I tell them. The sound guy and I joke about how the choir members wisper things to each other yet the mic's still picks it up! I've already told them I hate the situation but I'm now going to get serious! When he said ambient noise, I think he meant it was picking up bass frequencies or something like that. Our bassits amp is always too loud but I can ignore it since I'm only really paying attention to the upper frequncies of my guitar:pAnd we have a very good soundman. Alot of places just have someone unexperienced. Our's actually went to school to learn about how to run professional audio. He also works with cars and specializes in mufflers (like the tone they produce) lol It still doesn't make sense to me that if your soundman is so good that he can handle the ambient noise of your choir mics, he cannot handle the ambient noise (as he claims) of your guitar amp mic. You might have to get your own amp mic, to ensure the problem really isn't the mic he's putting on your amp speaker. For all I know, he might be using the wrong kind of mic, or just a low quality one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members andreas Posted March 26, 2008 Members Share Posted March 26, 2008 What makes me mad is that at my church they won't let us use an amp either. They always complain. And I mean ALWAYS!That doesn't sound like an ideal situation for creating good music, not to mention worship... If I place my amp out (it's usually on a stand made of milk-crates) it sits at a level where the soundwaves travel directly to the back where our sound man sits (he is elevated at the level of the stage), and he thinks I'm too loud. Then if I put it infront of me and aim it back (liek a wedge) the sound waves bounce of the back wall, becasue it's a flat painted surface . Have you tried placing the amp behind you (facing the crowd), and tilting it back so it points right at you? That should help avoid both issues above. You should definitely make sure they use a reasonably good dynamic mic on your amp - a condenser might pick up too much stuff around the amp, but if you close-mike the amp with an SM57, there should be no big bleed problem. As long as you make sure you're not louder than the keyboard amp, I can't see why you shouldn't be able to use your amp. Try to work with the sound man, to find a setting/placement where the guitar amp doesn't bleed out in to the audience (the occasional quick test with the FOH masters turned down will help keep things in check). And whatever happens, be glad you're not a drummer... /Andreas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members cg_25 Posted March 27, 2008 Members Share Posted March 27, 2008 It still doesn't make sense to me that if your soundman is so good that he can handle the ambient noise of your choir mics, he cannot handle the ambient noise (as he claims) of your guitar amp mic. You might have to get your own amp mic, to ensure the problem really isn't the mic he's putting on your amp speaker. For all I know, he might be using the wrong kind of mic, or just a low quality one. he was using a shure vocal mic. That was one factor and the other was the level of the bass amp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members cdawzrd Posted March 27, 2008 Members Share Posted March 27, 2008 he was using a shure vocal mic. That was one factor and the other was the level of the bass amp a 58? that makes guitar amps sound like crap. get your own mic and maybe a speaker attenuator if your amp doesnt have master volume. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members fuzzylogic220 Posted March 27, 2008 Author Members Share Posted March 27, 2008 And whatever happens, be glad you're not a drummer... /Andreas true , but our drummer has his own sound proof room where the drums are set up. , I dont like it tho, all this stuff, takes away from the atmosphere, to play music you kinda need to be albe to not just hear everything but feel it also, most of our songs are keyboard driven (LAME) so the guitar sits in the background a lot i still try to play even tho i cant really hear myself, cuz the keyboard is so loud sometimes i turn my guitar volume all the way down just to see if anyone would notice and they dont, and the few times i get them to turn me up everyone, mainly the singers start complaining (LSD). so i duno its a constant frustration but i love it so much at the same time. When we go out and play shows, for like youth groups and stuff i get to take my amp, (DR.Z stingray) and it rocks so very hard, nobody complains or anything and i get a bunch of comments like dude why dont you play like that in church, and you sounded awesome tonight, ........ and why because DR.Z and pedals are a million times beter than line 6 pod. our church wasnt really built for sound tho, all the walls flat painted i lean right up aginst the wall when i play. but its not a small church, well at least for around here we have about 450 members. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Arcanesox Posted March 27, 2008 Members Share Posted March 27, 2008 If stage volume is the problem, buy an Isolation cab and use your amps speaker out into that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members comfortablynumb Posted March 27, 2008 Members Share Posted March 27, 2008 If it's such a dire situation, I'd go with building a soundproof box to put the amp in and mic it. But, no matter what the stage volume actually is, there's no excuse to not be able to mic an amp in a church. No church plays at whisper levels. If I couldn't mic my amp, I highly doubt I would be playing. There's no good at all in being on that stage when you're not happy with the sound. If you're in a bad mood or not digging your sound, that just compromises the whole worship service. That's just all there is to it.. in my opinion, of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Desert Dweller Posted March 27, 2008 Members Share Posted March 27, 2008 I also play in a church under the same conditions as you. I recently bought a POD x3 live. It has a an effects loop. Just choose the AMP/CAB sim you like and then use your stomps thru the loop. Seems to me there are a couple of things to remember about amp simulation. Nothing will beat the sound of your favorite amp when you are standing in front of it. The reality is that if you are going through the house (as do I) your sound is being interpreted and altered by a ton of variables between you & the listeners; mic type/ mic placement/ PA set up/ engineer/ house accoustics etc...the point I am making is that what is comming out of the house is more important than you hear on stage. So far I like what the POD X3 is delivering to the board, especialy the stereo effects. The thing about the X3 is that it is NOT a plug & play device. It takes a while to get the hang of it, but if you do, you can get good sounds out of it. Forget about using your AMP as a monitor, it will sound bad. POD is designed for full range speakers. Go for a set of in-ears through a baby mixer and mix in a foldback return. It works realy well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members andreas Posted March 27, 2008 Members Share Posted March 27, 2008 he was using a shure vocal mic. That was one factor and the other was the level of the bass ampSo... the bass player gets to use his amp??? If the bass player's stage level was the problem, maybe he/she should be the one going direct... Anyway, make sure you use a good mic (Shure SM57 or similar), and try to block the path between it and the bass amp (using some sort of sound baffle). Then make sure your channel on the mixer has the bass-cut filter (high-pass at 100Hz) turned on. Or just bite the bullet and go DI. Like Desert Dweller said, you will have to spend some time getting the POD set up right, preferably through the PA at the church. But with a little (ok, quite a bit) of work, you will end up with a few good sounds to use. /Andreas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members cg_25 Posted March 27, 2008 Members Share Posted March 27, 2008 So... the bass player gets to use his amp??? If the bass player's stage level was the problem, maybe he/she should be the one going direct... Anyway, make sure you use a good mic (Shure SM57 or similar), and try to block the path between it and the bass amp (using some sort of sound baffle). Then make sure your channel on the mixer has the bass-cut filter (high-pass at 100Hz) turned on. Or just bite the bullet and go DI. Like Desert Dweller said, you will have to spend some time getting the POD set up right, preferably through the PA at the church. But with a little (ok, quite a bit) of work, you will end up with a few good sounds to use. /Andreas sorry about being confusing... We used to all use amps and then we all switched to headphones with mixers. Even when we used amps, they were never mic'd. The bass amp was always on the ground and the bass player would stand directly inront of it and complain he couldn't hear himself. Well, we all know that you won't hear anything if your amp is pointed at your feet! So basically he would be so loud that he would blow everyone away. My amp was always pointed at my head and is always controlled! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members cg_25 Posted March 27, 2008 Members Share Posted March 27, 2008 true , but our drummer has his own sound proof room where the drums are set up. , I dont like it tho, all this stuff, takes away from the atmosphere, to play music you kinda need to be albe to not just hear everything but feel it also, most of our songs are keyboard driven (LAME) so the guitar sits in the background a lot i still try to play even tho i cant really hear myself, cuz the keyboard is so loud sometimes i turn my guitar volume all the way down just to see if anyone would notice and they dont, and the few times i get them to turn me up everyone, mainly the singers start complaining (LSD). so i duno its a constant frustration but i love it so much at the same time. When we go out and play shows, for like youth groups and stuff i get to take my amp, (DR.Z stingray) and it rocks so very hard, nobody complains or anything and i get a bunch of comments like dude why dont you play like that in church, and you sounded awesome tonight, ........ and why because DR.Z and pedals are a million times beter than line 6 pod. our church wasnt really built for sound tho, all the walls flat painted i lean right up aginst the wall when i play. but its not a small church, well at least for around here we have about 450 members. Our church used to be a truck loading bay. I was never their when it was being converted, but it's faily big. We have two services that average between 400-600 each. The walls (minus the walls behidn the stage) are all covered in soundproof pannels. Apparently before they had the panels sound reverberated all over the place Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members dorfmeister Posted November 6, 2008 Members Share Posted November 6, 2008 You might try one of the following: Ethos Retroman Dumbox Damage Control Womanizer All are pre-amps with speaker simulation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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