So I spent $35 on eBay on a cheap cello bow and rosin...

[olejason]

There's not much to them. The cheap fiberglass bows can take A LOT of {censored} and still work fine. Just loosen the hair when you don't play it. Don't overtighten it when you're using it and it should probably last a lifetime unless you use it like 8 hours a day haha

 

I've never messed with a bow on guitar. I don't understand how you'd really control what strings you're hitting because the bridge doesn't arc

[Noise...]

There's not much to them. The cheap fiberglass bows can take A LOT of {censored} and still work fine. Just loosen the hair when you don't play it. Don't overtighten it when you're using it and it should probably last a lifetime unless you use it like 8 hours a day haha I've never messed with a bow on guitar. I don't understand how you'd really control what strings you're hitting because the bridge doesn't arc

 

 

I don't know...The people on Youtube do it quite well. The bridge doesn't seem to hinder them at all. I don't know how they have their guitars set up, but damn...they certainly don't need to change anything.

 

[YOUTUBE]CbudP0j_3yo[/YOUTUBE]

 

[YOUTUBE]qHfjs1Nz8uw[/YOUTUBE]

[slight-return]

I don't know...The people on Youtube do it quite well. The bridge doesn't seem to hinder them at all.

 

 

You'll notice that those guys are tending to camp out on one string..generally the lowest (notice the bowing angle relative to the face of the instrument)

 

What Jason is talking about is fuller control that dedicatd arco instrument have where you have access and control to the middle strings and can choose to play them individually or with the adjacent strings, more precise string crossing, etc

 

Even with the "extra string" arco instruments (extended range instruments with more-than-typical number of string, across a similar radius) , the more camped bowing arc can be quite challenging

[Noise...]

You'll notice that those guys are tending to camp out on one string..generally the lowest (notice the bowing angle relative to the face of the instrument) What Jason is talking about is fuller control that dedicatd arco instrument have where you have access and control to the middle strings and can choose to play them individually or with the adjacent strings, more precise string crossing, etc Even with the "extra string" arco instruments (extended range instruments with more-than-typical number of string, across a similar radius) , the more camped bowing arc can be quite challenging

 

 

Hmm..

 

So, would compensating with the action make it a bit more versatile? I know with a TOM bridge it's not really possible, but something like a Strat or 6 saddle Tele bridge allows you to sort of compensate the strings.

 

Would that help at all to allow more strings to be used effectively? I'd imagine chording would work decently with some practice even with normal action...That plus the single string ambient/drone sounds is enough to have me sold.

 

Is there a way to clean rosin off the strings without having to change them? I'd prefer to use my Jaguar, but I don't really want to have my Jaguar dedicated just to bow playing.

[olejason]

If you're not using much rosin to begin with you can wipe them off after use. Those little alcohol pads work really well but I'm not sure what kind of effect that would have on guitar strings.

 

I dunno if you'd be able to get all of it off but probably enough

[slight-return]

Hmm.. So, would compensating with the action make it a bit more versatile? I

 

 

mmm...It could offer SOME, relief, BUT at cost b/c you will no longer be following the radius of the fingerboard, so things can get kind of wonky (fingering could get a little weird by the tim you've got enough arc to make apprecible difference...pickup-to-string distance can be off, stuff like that)

and you still aren't approaching the kind of radius you get on an actual arco instrument

 

to be honest, I'd suggest either live with a limited arco range (I think it'd be a first good choice - at least until you decide "wow, this is pretty neat") or set up a (relatively) dedicated instrument ...it's still going to be a compromise instrument (Id' suggest even different strings if you go the dedicated route) -- so as to avoid setting up your primary as "neither fish nor fowl"

 

It's kind of weird b/c "the bowed guitar" is , in a way, a look back to a family of instrumentss known as the viols

[Noise...]

Are there any guitarists that are known for switching back and forth between pick playing and bow playing? Not only am I curious to see some more examples of playing, but I'd also like to see if there are any that switch back and forth without changing guitars.

 

How much rosin is necessary to get a good, smooth sound? Would just a damp cloth pull the rosin off the strings? I know that would probably cause the strings to rust faster, but oh well...

[Noise...]

mmm...It could offer SOME, relief, BUT at cost b/c you will no longer be following the radius of the fingerboard, so things can get kind of wonky (fingering could get a little weird by the tim you've got enough arc to make apprecible difference...pickup-to-string distance can be off, stuff like that) and you still aren't approaching the kind of radius you get on an actual arco instrument to be honest, I'd suggest either live with a limited arco range (I think it'd be a first good choice - at least until you decide "wow, this is pretty neat") or set up a (relatively) dedicated instrument ...it's still going to be a compromise instrument (Id' suggest even different strings if you go the dedicated route) -- so as to avoid setting up your primary as "neither fish nor fowl" It's kind of weird b/c "the bowed guitar" is , in a way, a look back to a family of instrumentss known as the viols

 

 

I think I'll just deal with the limited range for now. I don't really have a guitar I'd want to dedicate 100% to bow playing right now...If I get good at it, I'll simply get a guitar for it and tweak it for optimal playing with a bow.

 

The only thing I'm worried about is the rosin on the strings.

[slight-return]

The only thing I'm worried about is the rosin on the strings.

 

 

It can be a concern (it can also get on your finish some), even with the wipes you will probably find residue that is offputting - ESP if you are using roundwounds (the rosin can gum up the spaces)...which can also pull on the hair of your bow

[Noise...]

Hm...what should I use to get the rosin off the strings the best I can?

 

Is it easy to get off the finish, or is it more difficult?

[DADGADammit]

Are there any guitarists that are known for switching back and forth between pick playing and bow playing? Not only am I curious to see some more examples of playing, but I'd also like to see if there are any that switch back and forth without changing guitars.

 

 

bowing starts at around 1:40

RtPeEt8-oDM

 

and the obligatory Dazed and Confused: first on a Telecaster in 1969, bowing starts at 2:50

Xajqf-PhO8s

and later in 1975 with a Les Paul, bowing starts at 2:35

endbQYYBsbA

 

cool to see how he changed it up

[TruuSouljah]

Yeah, it's cool and all, but everybody is just going to call you a jimmy page wannabe. But if that's what you want to do, and you enjoy it, who cares

[DADGADammit]

Yeah, it's cool and all, but everybody is just going to call you a jimmy page wannabe. But if that's what you want to do, and you enjoy it, who cares

yeah thats true, the funny thing is that the guitarist from The Creation was doing it before Page

[Instrospection]

If you look closely, there's a Super Hard On. There's also one on the ground below, too, with all the other pedals

[Collapse]

re: Sigur Ros

 

I always though homeboy did a bunch of bowing full chords.

 

You aren't going to be able to adjust the action on any standard, non-custom guitar bridge to bow strings independently.

 

Alcohol is not going to damage guitar strings in the least. It's non-abrasive.

 

A fiberglass/composite bow is going to be more durable, not less.

[girevik]

You aren't going to be able to adjust the action on any standard, non-custom guitar bridge to bow strings independently.

 

 

It surprises me nobody has designed a bridge that will allow the heights of individual strings to be adjusted. This has been a problem with my Carvin Holdsworth Fatboy - they put a Tuneomatic on a guitar that has a 20 radius! Tunomatics aren't designed for that radius!

[slight-return]

re: Sigur Ros I always though homeboy did a bunch of bowing full chords.

can't say, not all that familiar with their work -- if they are usin a lot of processing they could be arpeggiating and getting a fuler chording through reverb/echo, etc

also, with a flatter profile you can dig in and grab multiple strings (though response will tend to be be WAYYY uneven)
There is a special species of bow (used in german baroque) designed to grab multiple strings across an arc...it has a crazzy deep frog and "wraps" the arc like a chain grip (not chain nose) pliers - though those are pretty much in disuse these days

A fiberglass/composite bow is going to be more durable, not less.

That's pretty much the agreement here - I don't think anyone here said the other way (olejason mentioned that they tke a lot of {censored} -- ie they take abuse and still work OK)
it's fnny, you'll occassionally see 12 year-olds use em for faux fencing practie...til the director comes back in the room

I have the opposite problem "NO,NO,NO parry in 4! it gives you the opening for the riposte!"

[phyrexia]

Yeah the rosin should pretty much ruin the strings for 'normal' play. They'll be really tacky. You shouldn't use a lot of rosin though. Let the hair grip the string not the rosin. Otherwise you'll get a really scratchy jerky tone.

 

 

The hair doesn't grip the strings without the rosin, that's what it's for.

[Collapse]

I must have misread one of the posts about the composite bows.

 

There's always these things I guess:

http://www.togamanguitars.com/

[slight-return]

It surprises me nobody has designed a bridge that will allow the heights of individual strings to be adjusted.

 

 

Fender-style are

APMs Kahler bridges were also individ adjustableoh, a bunch of others too - not built on the tune-o-matic system (well, Kahler made a tune-omatic retrofit, but it is a trem system so routing is required)

[slight-return]

The hair doesn't grip the strings without the rosin, that's what it's for.

 

 

 

It's a cooperative effect (the hair has little micro-hooks on it, the rosin tunes that grip...sort of like usig the right grip wax on X/C skis) ...it's a balancing act (bowing physics is a good balance b/c you want grip, then release - you go through a cycle of static friction then sliding friction, then static friction again -- Cello Technique: Principles and Forms of Movement has a great section on that)

 

 

 

I think what Jason is talking about (FWIW olejason was a doublebass major, so I assume he's used to arco)- is the tendency for beginners to try to "solve" bowing problems by..more and more rosin

(I admit, i've had a cello instructor say "um, your problem isnt the rosin man" as i sawed my bow across the block for the third time during lesson

 

 

actually, now that I think abt it, it's a CRAPLOAD like X/c skiing..including the trying to solve {censored} with the dressing on the equipment

[phyrexia]

Admittedly it has been a long time since I played my cello regularly (in fact, the reason I don't now is that I haven't ponied up the $200 for a bow to match my cello).

 

There is a magic balance I guess. But if you take a brand new bow, stroke it across some brand new rosin three or ten times, nothing's gonna happen when you bow the strings.

[slight-return]

Admittedly it has been a long time since I played my cello regularly (in fact, the reason I don't now is that I haven't ponied up the $200 for a bow to match my cello).

I hear ya on that brotha! my old instructor lent me an extra bow (it was abt $2500 - and it ws like eating great sushi or great scotch...there's no way back )
but totally pony up, $ for $ you are going to get more sound improvment from the bow than in the instrument

I've heard the composite Tabary bows are excellent, but haven't tried em (the sister in law was a Brazillian cop and mentioned that the crap you hear abt pernambuco trafficing is real- so besides the cost issues..I do have those concerns)

As a cellist, seriously tech out that ook I mentioned - it's mechanics (the pyschiecs, the biomechnics) ad feels very German, but a VERY good read I thought



There is a magic balance I guess.

It's a totally delicate balance - I mean, not enough grip and the string just slides and doesn't get any excursion. If it doesnt release properly, the string will not be moving at its resonant frequency (becomes "victim to the pull")
carefully selected hair type, the right Rosin, the right amt of rosin...its balanced system

egh, not to mention a dynamics pressure/rate curve, angular differences, tension --- big big big subject that, I think, Pizz players sometimes dont even know exists

But if you take a brand new bow, stroke it across some brand new rosin three or ten times, nothing's gonna happen when you bow the strings.

yup (well, I suppose you could dig in damagingly hard, but you ain't gonna be making music ...then again, I could dig in with a piece of twine too - at the same time, if you feel the synthetic monofilament before it's been etched...it's not going to catch either, no matter how much crap you put on it)

[phyrexia]

wow I never thought i'd have a cello conversation on the HC forums.

[phyrexia]

http://books.google.com/books?id=LD9teSPY2Z0C&dq=cello+technique+principles+and+forms+of+movement&pg=PP1&ots=i3HbTjDMmC&sig=4i0hCDBdYhRAkScvhy6quwkWQmI&hl=en&prev=http://www.google.com/search?q=+Cello+Technique:+Principles+and+Forms+of+Movement+&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a&sa=X&oi=print&ct=title&cad=one-book-with-thumbnail#PPR5,M1 if anybody wants to look.