Members Dejavoodoo Posted September 22, 2007 Members Share Posted September 22, 2007 I want to get a FR to record practices at my church as well as the occasional school concert (might even make a few bucks here - make some CDs for parents!). Looked at the Zoom units, but read a few reviews that suggested they weren't made well and might not stand up to the rigors of field use. Considering the Fostex FR2LE, but open to other suggestions for units under a grand. What do you guys use? Thanks bunches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members mobobog Posted September 22, 2007 Members Share Posted September 22, 2007 IF you have a grand, i have heard the best thing is the unit from korg... i dont remember the name of it, but be sure to check it out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members pighood Posted September 22, 2007 Members Share Posted September 22, 2007 Edirol R-09. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members scientist Posted September 22, 2007 Members Share Posted September 22, 2007 if you're worried about build quality of the zooms and have 1k to spend then buy 2! the little one (h2?) records quad. that alone makes the h2 worth at least a look. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members carbon111 Posted September 22, 2007 Members Share Posted September 22, 2007 I really like the M-Audio Microtrack 24/96 - I've been using it for months now. It holds a charge for a really long time, is easy to operate and can record directly to MP3 or Wav formats...lots of time on a 2 gig smart media card. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members syncretism Posted September 22, 2007 Members Share Posted September 22, 2007 Do you already have microphones to use for these recordings? Small electrets, especially used in binaural or similar configuration, are cost-effective, portable and stealthy {if that's a requirement} and yield excellent results. In my experience, they have higher self-noise and lower headroom than your phantom-powered single point Sennheisers and the like, but that's only going to be an issue if you're recording extremely quiet or extremely loud sources, and there's still the quality of the rest of the rig to consider, as well. I've owned a pair of Sonic Studios DSM 6EHs for two years and have never regretted that purchase. For field recording, I still think Sony HiMD, especially the top of the line MZ-RH1 deck {I think it's the MZ-200 in the States}, is the platform to beat: + Quieter preamps than similarly-priced solutions from Edirol and M-Audio+ Better conversion than the Edirol and M-Audio units, apparent in listening tests and analysis+ Sony finally relaxed their insane SCMS restrictions; any recording you make can be transferred to and from your computer via USB 2.+ 16 bit/44.1khz PCM, no more ATRAC, unless you want it.+ HiMD is inexpensive - you can buy 20 1GB discs from Minidisco for about 115 USD+ MD is an archival medium. I've never seen a disc go bad in ten years, and they can take a beating. There are, of course, cons: - Moving parts. You can hear TOC reads and writes. I've never inadvertently recorded my deck's sounds, but it could happen if you're trying to record a really quiet source. - Plug-in power jack only for those electret mics. If you want to use one of those high-end Sennheiser shotguns and the like, you'll need a preamp adding to total cost, weight and convenience.- You're stuck using Sonic Stage, which is worse than iTunes, on Windows. Macs have a barebones transfer utility. For the uses you've described, and many others, I'd recommend Sony's HiMD line. You can record entire albums of field recordings with them; many have. Edit, I've alluded to serious "pro" recording rigs from Nagra, Sound Devices, et al in another thread, but I don't think that's what you're looking for, so... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Dejavoodoo Posted September 22, 2007 Author Members Share Posted September 22, 2007 - Moving parts. You can hear TOC reads and writes. I've never inadvertently recorded my deck's sounds, but it could happen if you're trying to record a really quiet source. - Plug-in power jack only for those electret mics. If you want to use one of those high-end Sennheiser shotguns and the like, you'll need a preamp adding to total cost, weight and convenience.- You're stuck using Sonic Stage, which is worse than iTunes, on Windows. Macs have a barebones transfer utility. Thank you so much for taking the time to write such a thorough response. I do have mics I can use - battery/phantom power combo. I would use the recorder in a live situation along with mics and a small mixer. My DAW is a standalone, so USB wouldn't help me there too much (not to say I'd never need it). I would record line out from the recorder to the DAW and mix from there. (If only it had a digital out!) I like the durability of the MD - cheaper than a compact flash card, too. But it's only 16 bit, whereas the compact flash recorders are 24 bit. (And what's up with Korg's 1 bit?!?) Wouldn't that influence the recording's quality? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members syncretism Posted September 23, 2007 Members Share Posted September 23, 2007 Wouldn't that influence the recording's quality? 24-bit is definitely better, but then again, so are quality components. In an ideal world, the HiMD decks would provide both - I don't miss those extra bits in use, though, because I don't record really quiet sources in a soundproofed room You have to consider what you'll be recording, how you'll use the rig, and then enumerate your requirements. Korg's one-bit is a completely different recording scheme, but a mature one with a solid foothold in the consumer marketplace. In a nutshell, you have a sampling rate running to several megahertz, fast and detailed enough for the converter to compare or contrast each successive samples on the simplest terms - has the signal's volume increased, decreased or remained the same since the last sample? This simplicity obviates the steep filters and complex mathematical functions typically used in multi-bit audio that can potentially color your signal. In theory, high resolution, 1-bit recording is the closest to "what goes in, comes out" we've gotten in digital recording. I can't address the results in practice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members mate_stubb Posted September 23, 2007 Members Share Posted September 23, 2007 Analogue baby! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members filterthing Posted September 23, 2007 Members Share Posted September 23, 2007 I have co workers who use the FR2 (the bigger one) in the field. They have had no problems and have put them through the ringer. Plus they record up to 24/96k, which is pretty slick. I had a microtrak and when recording very very quiet material, I would get this odd ticking sound. Not good at all. But you would never hear it unless it was really really quiet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Dejavoodoo Posted September 24, 2007 Author Members Share Posted September 24, 2007 Sweet pic, mate_stub! Sexy little unit, that - side knobbage and all!. I would probably not record in a quiet environment (classical guitar recital, etc.), but you never really know what gig is going to present itself to you. Built-in mics would be preferable for practices (about 65 percent of its total use), but I'd want XLR ins routing the signal from a mixer. One gig I want this for is recording an elementary school choir ... I want to record the concert and sell some CDs to parents. I wouldn't use this unit in the studio at all. I'll go shopping next weekend - guess the thing to do is to line them up and try them out as much as I can in a store. Guess I could always take it back if it's not exactly what I wanted. I guess it's the bitrate thing that's making me waver. Thanks to all of you who responded. Special nod to sync for his well-written responses. If I ever make it to Dublin, I'll buy you a pint for this. I am already down for drinks with 7DeadlySynths, so might as well add another to the party! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Don Solaris Posted September 24, 2007 Members Share Posted September 24, 2007 Shopping For A Field Recorder. http://acapella.harmony-central.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1736527 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Dejavoodoo Posted September 24, 2007 Author Members Share Posted September 24, 2007 Excellent thread - articles on the O'Riley site are really useful. Thanks, Don. (Guess I shoulda searched first! Oh, well. My next thread will be on the best synth for a beginner. I'm sure no one has written about that yet!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Dejavoodoo Posted September 25, 2007 Author Members Share Posted September 25, 2007 A good link to the 411 on the skinny for those inquiring minds: http://www.bswusa.com/assets/pdf/RecorderComparisons.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members syncretism Posted September 26, 2007 Members Share Posted September 26, 2007 No HiMD. Boo. The nice thing about some of these is that there are great aftermarket mods - esp from the Oade bros. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Dejavoodoo Posted October 2, 2007 Author Members Share Posted October 2, 2007 Many thanks for all of the advice. It was a tough call, but I finally settled on my original choice, the Fostex FR2LE. I wanted a recorder with 24-bit recording, and I wanted XLR inputs. But the real deal breaker over the Edirol and Sony units (yes, Sync, I strongly considered the MD recorder!) was that I really need a built-in speaker. My choir room has only a piano and a boom box, and I want the choir to be able to hear themselves immediately. Korg's unit looked nice, but I wanted built-in mics. We'll see. As far as I'm concerned, it's still not a done deal. I'll record with it some this weekend and post some clips. Again, thanks for the input! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Allerian Posted October 2, 2007 Members Share Posted October 2, 2007 Looking forward to the clips. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members syncretism Posted October 3, 2007 Members Share Posted October 3, 2007 Many thanks for all of the advice. It was a tough call, but I finally settled on my original choice, the Fostex FR2LE. That's a fine recorder. Do let us know how it works out for you! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Dejavoodoo Posted October 8, 2007 Author Members Share Posted October 8, 2007 Got the Fostex & played with it over the weekend. Grade: C+ to B-. Pros: records well across the spectrum, from MP3 to 24/96. Not a hard unit to figure out. Menus pretty straightforward - thankfully, for the manual sucks! (A real quote: "Do not monitor the sound for a long period of time at a high volume level, since this can cause permanent hearing.") Accepts XLR, 1/4 inch, USB. Analog (RCA) outs, phones out. Cons: I did some basic line-level recording from my Alesis Masterlink to the Fostex. The louder tunes sounded good, but I heard this annoying high-pitched whine during the quiet opening of one of the songs. Don't know what caused it, but I do know it wasn't on the source material. The whine also wasn't on any of the other songs. Speaker (built in) is whale poo. It was one of the main reasons I got the unit. I wanted to record my choir, then let them listen to it right away. I had to turn the monitor up so loud that the speaker was distorting. Phones sounded okay. Bottom line: I'm sending it back. At $599 it's too expensive to keep for the issues I just mentioned. I am considering the new M-Audio unit, which sells for half the price of the Fostex. I can skip the built-in monitor, get some decent computer monitors for the practice room at church, and still have cash left over. Any ideas about the whine? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ElectricPuppy Posted October 8, 2007 Members Share Posted October 8, 2007 Whine is usually interference from some high-freq clock, perhaps from a poorly shielded DC-DC converter internally. That alone would be grounds for return, IMO. Don't you hate researching a purchase and thinking you found just what you want only find out it's just a piece of whale poo? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Allerian Posted October 8, 2007 Members Share Posted October 8, 2007 Fwiw: So happy here with the Edirol R-09, we're considering a second. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Dejavoodoo Posted October 8, 2007 Author Members Share Posted October 8, 2007 Don't you hate researching a purchase and thinking you found just what you want only find out it's just a piece of whale poo? Exactly! But I was dubious even as the unit was shipping. One of the other teachers at school has a studio as well, and he told me that he has never cared for Fostex. They try to do too many things with their products instead of trying to do one thing well. Not sure I agree completely, but this was the case here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members syncretism Posted October 8, 2007 Members Share Posted October 8, 2007 Deja, Musik are selling a Korg handheld for about that price: http://www.novamusik.com/search.aspx?type=Model&keyword=4287&mid=259 If you really need playback in situ, I'd recommend getting a cheap pair of desktop computer speakers - they'd be no worse than anything built in. I've never used this device, mind - I'm just throwing it out there, because I was looking at the Nova site and thought of you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members syncretism Posted October 8, 2007 Members Share Posted October 8, 2007 I lived for some months across the street from six parallel train tracks - CTA, Chicago Metra and the Conrail interstate lines, each with a distinctive sound: the CTA train's "12,1234, 1234, 12" cadence as it passes by a switch {or something}, the steady, TIE fighter roar of Metra train and my favorite, the long, slow-moving freight trains. These trains would grind to slow, screeching halts a few times a day, and, an hour or so later, resume their journeys with Penderecki {or Xenakis}-esque groans, creaks and wails. There was always traffic on the street below, so I could never get a clean recording, but I think you'll see what I mean. These were recorded with Sonic Studios DSM6-EH microphones and a Sony Hi-MD RZ-RH1. Headphones recommended: http://syncretism.net/snd/misc/phonography.trainsongs.mp3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Dejavoodoo Posted October 8, 2007 Author Members Share Posted October 8, 2007 If you really need playback in situ, I'd recommend getting a cheap pair of desktop computer speakers - they'd be no worse than anything built in.I've never used this device, mind - I'm just throwing it out there, because I was looking at the Nova site and thought of you. Thanks - I'm considering the Korg unit, but I really want to find some reviews before I pull the trigger. I had already reached the cheapo speaker decision. I have a Tascam CD burner that I can take to the church, so I won't need a Marantz or Roland unit with a built in burner, either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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