Members orangefunk Posted October 9, 2007 Members Share Posted October 9, 2007 +1 I work with a lot of German people (as well as Austrian, Dutch, French, Spanish, Portuguese, etc) as part of an EU Project. While there are some truths to the stereotypes as a whole these could also be attributed to any person or any culture. I spend a lot of time in Munich and its a great city, but I know Bavarians see themselves differently to most Germans anyway. About the Nazi/German stuff, it would not surprise me if there were more Nazis in the USA.. and most Germans I know have no problem talking about that stuff, so I don't think its forgotten. The bigger question would be should we take responsibility for our forefathers actions? I don't think so... sure we learn from them but pretty much every culture has been responsible for some atrocity at some time in history... UK/USA included... I am a german, living in munich, my girlfriend is part jewish, her grandfathers first family died in a concentration camp back then. This stuff is so sad, i don't get how you can ridicule this with posting childish nonsense Swastika pics. And, i am also bored with this cliche stuff. These days somebody mentions the word "Germany", and you have the same morons posting "LOLZ, THEY ARE ALL NAZIS!" and "MEGALOLZ, THEY ARE EATING {censored} IN THEIR PORNOMOVIES"...I am not a nazi, i do not engage in scateating, nor have i ever seen such a movie. And i don't think they are popular here.How comes all americans seems to have watched them, but no germans that i know of?Frankly, i am tired by this stuff being posted over and over again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members orangefunk Posted October 9, 2007 Members Share Posted October 9, 2007 In the 1970s this was actually something that would happen... South Park did an episode on NAMBLA (North American Man Boy Love Association) but it actually exists.. they tried to align their cause with that of Gay Rights... so they would sometimes appear in their marches with their banners... how {censored}ed up is that... I believe there is also a book on Amazon that also tries to "normalise" such behaviour... and seem to recall a whole host of positive reviews from obvious paedophiles.. So much for free speech... Similarly, I would not like to see a "pedophilia rights" march down the main street.....if you get what I mean. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Cloacal-X Posted October 9, 2007 Members Share Posted October 9, 2007 I agree. Not so much of the "scared" part.....but it should not be allowed.Similarly, I would not like to see a "pedophilia rights" march down the main street.....if you get what I mean.Some things should just not be tolerated, no matter the political correctness of the time. Actually, we do have a group here called NAMBLA (North American Man-Boy Love Association), and they are allowed to hold conventions and such - much to the chagrin of many of course. The point is that even if you can force people not to say these things, you can't force people not to think them. It's actually "political correctness" which determines which things are reprehensible enough to be oppressed, according to the politics of the time. Here in the US, it is during the times when the emphasis on freedom of speech has been the strongest that civil rights have been aloud to flourish - there was of course a time and a place here when talking about blacks doing things like sharing water fountains and sitting on the same benches as whites would have been about as acceptable as allowing skinheads to hold a rally in downtown Berlin would be today. But we did let people talk about those ideas which were extremely contentious at the time, and we let people speak in opposition as well. In the end the facts and the will of the people won out, and the civil rights era is now considered one of the greatest and most important moments for our country. But it never would have happened if people had been limited to only speech which was considered uncontroversial at that time. The only kind of free speech which is meaningful at all is that which is unpopular. Even under the most oppressive dictatorships anybody is allowed to express benign thought. The holocaust didn't happen because people were allowed to talk, the holocaust happened because people were afraid to talk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Purity_Control Posted October 9, 2007 Members Share Posted October 9, 2007 The holocaust didn't happen because people were allowed to talk, the holocaust happened because people were afraid to talk. no, actually the holocaust happened because a bunch of psychopaths won a rigged election, then the rest of the world sat back and watched while the whole place went to hell in a handbasket... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Cloacal-X Posted October 10, 2007 Members Share Posted October 10, 2007 no, actually the holocaust happened because a bunch of psychopaths won a rigged election, then the rest of the world sat back and watched while the whole place went to hell in a handbasket... Oh, okay. It looks like I was mistaken. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members BonsoWonderDog Posted October 10, 2007 Members Share Posted October 10, 2007 Actually, we do have a group here called NAMBLA (North American Man-Boy Love Association), and they are allowed to hold conventions and such - much to the chagrin of many of course. The point is that even if you can force people not to say these things, you can't force people not to think them. It's actually "political correctness" which determines which things are reprehensible enough to be oppressed, according to the politics of the time. Here in the US, it is during the times when the emphasis on freedom of speech has been the strongest that civil rights have been aloud to flourish - there was of course a time and a place here when talking about blacks doing things like sharing water fountains and sitting on the same benches as whites would have been about as acceptable as allowing skinheads to hold a rally in downtown Berlin would be today. But we did let people talk about those ideas which were extremely contentious at the time, and we let people speak in opposition as well. In the end the facts and the will of the people won out, and the civil rights era is now considered one of the greatest and most important moments for our country. But it never would have happened if people had been limited to only speech which was considered uncontroversial at that time. The only kind of free speech which is meaningful at all is that which is unpopular. Even under the most oppressive dictatorships anybody is allowed to express benign thought. The holocaust didn't happen because people were allowed to talk, the holocaust happened because people were afraid to talk. That's an interesting point - I hadn't considered it in that light. But to me, some things are just WRONG and could NEVER be right in any age or situation. I know that may sound narrow minded, but that's ok. It's my opinion, and doesn't have to be anyone elses Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Needle201 Posted October 11, 2007 Members Share Posted October 11, 2007 I think the US just have other stuff they censor, like displays of sexuality on TV etc... Face it, you just censor different things than we do here, but you do it as well. As i understand it, in the US, as a female, you can walk around in, let's say downtown Austin, with a big Swastika on your T-shirt, but you get arrested if you cut out two holes into the same shirt around the place where your nipples are and do the same thing (I am not sure though if this behaviour wouldn't be illegal in Germany as well )? Am i right? Cause, this may sound completely normal to you, but for me it's just some other kind of censorship. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Diametro Posted October 11, 2007 Members Share Posted October 11, 2007 Blame that on our puritanical forefathers ... most of the libertines, I imagine, stayed behind in Europe (or were burned at the stake in the colonies perhaps ... ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Cloacal-X Posted October 11, 2007 Members Share Posted October 11, 2007 I think the US just have other stuff they censor, like displays of sexuality on TV etc... Face it, you just censor different things than we do here, but you do it as well. As i understand it, in the US, as a female, you can walk around in, let's say downtown Austin, with a big Swastika on your T-shirt, but you get arrested if you cut out two holes into the same shirt around the place where your nipples are and do the same thing (I am not sure though if this behaviour wouldn't be illegal in Germany as well )? Am i right? Cause, this may sound completely normal to you, but for me it's just some other kind of censorship. Well, you're absolutely right there - and if you ask me I see no reason why clothing (or lack thereof) is different from speech, aside from at the very extreme being a public health issue. I don't think, for example, it would be wise to let people naked from the waist down onto public transit systems. I'd like to say that at least the impact from our repression of public nudity is limited, but then when I think about it I can't be sure. It seems so silly...but I guess you never know. To somebody out there it might be worth fighting and dying over (although that hasn't appeared to be the case yet), and to me that's the point - if people are allowed to say whatever they want without having to fight, nobody will ever feel tempted to wage an uprising just for the opportunity to do so. We let the merits of our thoughts speak for themselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Mike Conway Posted October 11, 2007 Members Share Posted October 11, 2007 I think the US just have other stuff they censor, like displays of sexuality on TV etc...Face it, you just censor different things than we do here, but you do it as well. That's not true with cable TV. You can get subtle sex (NIP TUCK, DEAD WOOD, Howard Stern guests) to full on porn. I just got back from a friend's house, where he had 500 channels. Not only is there sex, but it was categorized - gay channels, girl on girl, etc. I live in Las Vegas and there is no shortage of all nude clubs, sex shops or even topless shows. We have an adult super store that is so big that it looks like a Super Walmart. If you want the real thing, you take an hour long drive to Pahrump or one of the neighboring counties. My point is that it's not so much censorship, but finding the right venue. Public FCC monitored airwaves (TV/radio) are a lame example. If you pay for it, you can have whatever you want. Oh, yeah - public breast feeding is okay and nude beaches/camps can be found. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Mike Conway Posted October 11, 2007 Members Share Posted October 11, 2007 BTW, I'm sorry that this thread even touched on certain issues. I like German culture - the inventiveness, the cars, music, etc. I'm going to go play with my Virus TI, then watch RUN LOLA RUN, again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members mildbill Posted October 11, 2007 Members Share Posted October 11, 2007 ....you get arrested if you cut out two holes into the same shirt around the place where your nipples are .... In the US, women's breasts (and so on), are big business. Like D. says, part of it is puritanical repression, but economics plays a far larger role. There are tons of 'gentleman's clubs' where for a cover fee, or the price of a few drinks, you can watch partial/full nude dancing. Magazines, videos, DVD's, cable TV, etc - all paying for viewing. There are economic reasons for censorship, as well as politcal, religious and other reasons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Roald Posted October 11, 2007 Author Members Share Posted October 11, 2007 Censorship is wrong, though posting pictures like that should be done only when it has a well thought out and clear goal, and ONLY when you've thought about peoples feelings about certain sensitive subjects. It is not stuff you can just blurt out and get away with. For the indie-ness of it. Please be "cool" in your own bedroom. In my humble opinion it was NOT necessary just as changing the topic from music to politics. I am ashamed my name appears as the first poster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Don Solaris Posted October 11, 2007 Members Share Posted October 11, 2007 Anyway, the fact that performing a Sieg Heil may land you 3 years in prison As well as doing this (and i'm not joking): (at least, this was forbidden during football World Cup - Germany 2006. It was illegal to "march" on the streets in any form.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Diametro Posted October 11, 2007 Members Share Posted October 11, 2007 No {censored} ... goosestepping is one of my favorite exercises at the gym ... yes, I still feel self-conscious doing it ... but it's good stuff for the bod ... !!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Yoozer Posted October 11, 2007 Members Share Posted October 11, 2007 Das Ministerium von Laecherliches Laufen! (probably botched up the grammar pretty badly, there). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Diametro Posted October 11, 2007 Members Share Posted October 11, 2007 I love Lorna Luft, too! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Rabid Posted October 11, 2007 Members Share Posted October 11, 2007 ... 2. Culture. Despite being the 'strongest' political contingent atm, White Protestants have almost zero culture beyond their jacked-up Christianity, 'Country' music and TV/NASCAR/Golf. They are clueless compared to most other ethnicities, and they know it. ... Wow. Talk about clueless. I guess you also think black people are stupid gang bangers, relate Japanise to tourists walking around Disney with a cell phone in one hand and a camera in the other, and think "Indians" are better off on a reservation. This kind of hate towards another group is exactly what Hitler spread. Blame someone else for your troubles, and then do away with them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Diametro Posted October 11, 2007 Members Share Posted October 11, 2007 NASCAR is reallly boring. Can you imagine a Nazi NASCAR event? Everything coordinated and produced to the hilt. I hate to trivialize Nazis, but their aesthetic was just unbelievable. Unfortunately, music wasn't really their bag, I gather. Forgive me, but Nazis fascinate me kind of the way cavemen are fascinated by fire. Beautiful, dangerous and incomprehensible. I hope we don't get a repeat in colour, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Rabid Posted October 11, 2007 Members Share Posted October 11, 2007 I took two years of German language in high school. It is interesting to think back to the social and historical content that was included in those classes. I Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Birdienumnum Posted October 11, 2007 Members Share Posted October 11, 2007 I love everything about Germany, and Austria, including Yiddish. It's remarkable how many German and Austrian Jews there are, and how much they love their countries. That's from Mahler, Freud and Einstein on down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Rabid Posted October 11, 2007 Members Share Posted October 11, 2007 As for American attitude here is what I see Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Needle201 Posted October 12, 2007 Members Share Posted October 12, 2007 Unfortunately, music wasn't really their bag, I gather. Hmm, there was a certain cult surrounding the annual Wagner festival in Bayreuth back then. Hitler used parts of the Wagnerian Operas and its backgrounds, which are a large part of ancient german mythology (the Nibelungen) for his weird made up germanic cult. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Diametro Posted October 12, 2007 Members Share Posted October 12, 2007 I didn't say they weren't into ANY music (something had to be playing during "Triumph of the Will") Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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