Yamaha S03 or MM6?

[slunk0132]

I'm looking for an all-purpose portable keyboard with nice acoustic and electric piano sounds, as well as some nice organ sounds (with control over leslie speed, preferably via the mod wheel) and some cool synth stuff (leads, strings, beeps and boops, pink floyd-sounding stuff). I will be switching between guitar and keys in a band I recently joined.

 

I've been checking out some stuff in the $500-600 price range, like the Roland Juno D and the Korg XD. I've also been looking for a Kurzweil KME 61, but it seems that they are discontinued, and I can't find one to try out.

 

The store near me didn't have an S03, but had the S08, which sounded way better than the roland or the korg to my ears, as far as the pianos. If I understand correctly, the S03 has the same engine, just a different keyboard.

 

The MM6 looks pretty cool, although some of the sequencer and backing stuff seems kind of unnecessary. I do like the 4 knobs that control some of the synth parameters, however, which the S03 lacks. Does the MM6 have the same pianos/EP pianos and organs as the S03/S08?

 

I currently own a Yamaha CLP 155 clavinova, which is great as a home piano, but not transportable, and not very versatile. Can I use the Clavinova to control another keyboard via MIDI to take advantage of the weighted 88 keys while I'm at home? I really liked some of the Rhodes and Wurlitzer sounds on the S08, and they felt really good to play with the weighted keys.

 

I also like the fact that CuBase LE is included with the MM6. I do some home recording, but am currently limited to 16 tracks with a shareware multi-track program called Kristal. 48 tracks would be like Christmas.

 

Also, the polyphony difference between the S03's 64 and the MM6's 32 is not a big deal either. My Clavinova has 32 note polyphony, and it seems to get the job done, although I don't do much layering of voices.

[TempusRob]

The S03's a bit old at this point ... if I remember right, it's got the same soundset as the S08.

 

The MM6 has the same soundset as the original Motif, not to mention all the extra features.

 

So between the two I'd say go with the MM6.

[Cygnus64]

 

The MM6 has the same soundset as the original Motif, not to mention all the extra features.

 

 

That is incorrect. It has SOME of the Motif sounds. It also has PSR sounds as well.

 

Soundwise I would much rather have the MM6 over the S03, in fact I literally was going to get an S03 and ended up with an mm6. It's quirky and has faults: there is no portamento, no monophonic mode, you cant name performances, it responds poorly to an external keyboard, etc. It's like a PSR with good sounds, which for me isnt a negative since I have all kinds of other stuff.

[slunk0132]

The lack of a monophonic mode on the MM6 is pretty disappointing. None of the leads are mono?

 

I'm a bit new to synths, but is some sort of mono lead voice/preset kind of standard on many synths?

 

I don't really know too much of what to look for in a synth, but from I love the monophonic leads on some of the softsynths I've been playing around with, especially when I play around with the Glide control (not sure if that's the technical term, or just how it's labeled on that particular softsynth).

[Superace25]

Yeah, it's pretty standard. You usually at least get a choice between poly or mono, and often full poly / 8 voice poly / 4 voice poly / mono (high note priority) / mono (low note priority) / mono (fingered auto glide) / etc etc etc.

 

Once you have a mono mode there's usually a "portamento" option that kicks in the autoglide feature you refer to. Then you have control over the time it takes to slide between notes, linear vs exponential sweeps (and sometimes a large selection in between), etc.

 

So there's actually a pretty good amount of note-assign options out there, but just about everything will give you at least a full poly / mono control.

 

And yeah. Lots of fun! Try mapping glide time to the mod wheel with the glide curve set to linear. Maybe add some delay. Then you can play a lead that switches between slow sweeps, accelerating sweeps, and tasty percussive bits.

[akliner]

Get a used Yamaha EX7...

 

http://cgi.ebay.com/Yahama-EX7-Keyboard-Synth-Sequencer-Sampler_W0QQitemZ200167044979QQihZ010QQcategoryZ38091QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

 

It's a lot more synth for the buck than any of those two. Read the reviews on HC if you wanna know more.

 

...btw this is not my auction They come up on eBay for around $400 from time to time.

[tucktronix]

Get a used Yamaha EX7... http://cgi.ebay.com/Yahama-EX7-Keyboard-Synth-Sequencer-Sampler_W0QQitemZ200167044979QQihZ010QQcategoryZ38091QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem It's a lot more synth for the buck than any of those two. Read the reviews on HC if you wanna know more. ...btw this is not my auction They come up on eBay for around $400 from time to time.

 

+1

[akliner]

Or go up an octave to 76 keys...

 

http://cgi.ebay.com/Yamaha-EX5-76-Key-Synthesizer-Sampler-AN-VL-FDSP-64MB_W0QQitemZ280169179661QQihZ018QQcategoryZ38091QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

[Cygnus64]

The lack of a monophonic mode on the MM6 is pretty disappointing. None of the leads are mono? .

 

Correct, none of the leads are mono. "Glide" is the same thing as portamento and there is none. Also, you cannot name performances: performances are how you store things. Therefore, you cant name anything you store, rendering the keyboard practically useless for live playing. A Yamaha rep actually suggested to use a pencil and paper for this. Seriously. Really.

 

I like my mm6, I use it everyday and it doesnt leave my studio. However, it is a poorly thought out machine, and my guess is that it was put out very quickly. The sound quality is really quite good. Feature-wise, it's a dud. I also have a Korg X50 and it blows it away feature-wise, but the mm6 is superior in Piano, acoustic guitar and lots of other emulative sounds.

[Superace25]

Man, I wish the X50 had been available 5 years ago. Then I could have started off with it instead of the PK-6.

[slunk0132]

those EX's do look pretty sweet.

 

So, I'm a bit turned off on the MM6. It looks as though the S03 has monophonic mode, although it doesn't have the knobs for real-time synth editing.

 

Here's a dumb question. If I hooked up a MIDI controller with more knobs to the S03, would I be able to do more synth editing stuff on the fly? For example, in a live situation, could I have the S03 on one keyboard stand tier, and a MIDI controller on the other, connected to the s03? Would it be possible to assign the controller's knobs to synth parameters on the S03?

 

Here's another important question: how much editing can you perform on the S03 synths? Is there much filter control and whatnot, or is it impossible to deviate much from the preset tones?

 

There's another feature I just discovered yesterday, that would be very useful, but I'm not sure what it's called. I saw a demonstration of how Pink Floyd recorded On the Run for Dark Side of the Moon (track 2, in case you're unfamiliar with song titles). They essentially played the sequence of notes at low speed, and the synth they used looped it. They simply sped up the loop and had the basis for the track. What's this feature called and does the S03 have it?

 

Sorry I keep harping on about the S03, but I may be able to get a pretty good deal on a new one, since they're practically discontinued. I played the S08 and liked the piano/EP/organ sounds much more than other synths in the $500-600price range.

[akliner]

You're talking about sequencing and I don't think the S03 will sequence.

 

The EX5 or 7 will sequence (as well as sample) as it is a complete workstation (which predated the Motif series)...

 

Seriously, I'd rather spend my money on a slightly out-of-date workstation that a hardly current budget performance board.

 

I'm sure you can control the S03 with a controller, but you'd have to MIDI map the parameters to your new knobs and sliders and I don't know how much in-depth editing the S03 allows. It's a performance board, meaning it's generally used for pre-sets (with slight tweaks) and controlling rack-mount synths.

 

Seriously...I'd jump on the EX.

[slunk0132]

here's another dumb question:

 

I just found the S03's manual on Yamaha's website, and it looks like you can control a variety of synth parameters. Also, it explains that the Mod Wheel, or an optional Expression Pedal/Footswitch can be assigned the following parameters:

 

MOD WHEEL

MW Variation Control Depth

 

[slunk0132]

The EX5 and 7 do look really awesome, but I'm just a bit leery of buying something I've never played before that is already damaged, albeit superficially.

[slunk0132]

are there any other workstations or arrangers in the same price range as the MM6 that have good features (mono mode, portamento, sequencer, decent polyphony) and traditional piano/EP/organ sounds that are as good as the Yamaha's (I know it's kind of subjective) in the same price range as the MM6?

 

One more question:

 

Since it seems that a performance board, such as the S03, would meet my immediate needs (good piano/EP/organ voices, some synth stuff, a bit of tweakability, ability to get a wide range of sounds for live performance without too much dicking around) but not some stuff that would be very nice to have (more synth flexibility, sequencer, etc.), would it be worth it just to use the S03 for the time being and invest in a dedicated VA synth, such as a Micron, in the future to give me my beep-and-boop fix?

 

I am going to start checking out the used music stores around the area for some some good used stuff, but the deal I could get on a floor model S03 is very, very tempting, and I do need the synth for gigs in a few weeks.

[akliner]

Leslie speed would probably fall under "Variation Control Depth"...so yeah. The mod wheel or foot switch could control it on the S03.

 

Generally, it's agreed around here that the Korg X50 is the best budget board on the market right now.

 

You might wanna check that one out.

 

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/Korg-X50-61Key-Synthesizer?sku=702908

[PeterParker]

 

here's another dumb question: Do any of these parameters generally control the "Leslie Speed" effect on any of the organ voices on this type of synth? That's one feature I would definitely need.

 

 

The Leslie speed indeed is modulated by the mod wheel in the S03's organ presets. ROMplers don't do very good Leslie effects, generally, and I tend to like Rolands rotary effect better than the SO3's, but in the mix, it's passable.

[Dejavoodoo]

I like the sound of the Yammy. Pretty good for your price range.

[Birdienumnum]

MM6 is clearly better than the SO3. But what if you can get a used MO6? Used gear is the way to go. You never know what treasure might be available. I buy used gear at a store with a 30-day return policy, eBay is too risky. But I've also bought gear from fellow HC members. And there's a "for sale" forum here.

[slunk0132]

Thanks for all the advice, I'm gonna check my local used place tomorrow. I've gotten some good guitar finds there, so hopefully they'll have some cool keys.

 

Just out of curiosity, how much would you pay for a S03 floor model from GC?

[Birdienumnum]

$400 IMO

[slunk0132]

thanks for all the input. I've tried both boards quite a bit, and honestly, I think I'm just going to look for a decent softsynth and 88 key MIDI controller, I can't stand the organ tones on either the S03 or the MM6

[-groovatious-]

Get a Roland XP30 with Keyoards of the 60's and 70's Board.

 

Built like a tank

Light

Awesome key action (much better than those 2 yammies)

4 sliders for performance

fully programmable synth engine

good organs with decent leslie (all editable anyway)

 

I have one and it was the first 'PRO' synth I bought. Have used it so much it's not funny and it's still as tho it just came out of the box. AMAZING instrument.

 

(That is unless you REALLY want to lug around an 88 key controller, computer and audio interface)

[mrcpro]

I think you are making a wise decision passing on the MM6 and S03. If you like the Yamaha sound get a decent one... a used Motif or S90 in a weighted 88. The Chicago area has a very active craigslist and there's a Motif on there right now. They can be found in your price range.

 

The Yamaha Motif, ES, S90 and S90ES have very strong soundsets in practically all categories except B3/Leslies and if that's your focus none of them are going to cut it.

[slunk0132]

so short of getting a Nord or an actual Hammond, it seems like the only somewhat affordable way of getting good B3 sounds is with software?