GAS theory - why it's so hard to get it right

[droolmaster0]

I've even gotten private mail from people here, incredulous that I've just sold a particular piece of gear for the 400th time. "But you just {censored}in' bought it. Are you crazy? I've lost all respect for you, you rotting piece of garbage."

 

I admit - there are some pieces of equipment that I am ambivalent about. I've bought and sold them more than once. In a couple of cases, I think twice. The chimay may be luckily preventing me from counting higher than that.

 

But, why, exactly do I do that? Well, obviously if I were rich, I would just keep everything. So a trivial factor in all of this is limited funds. Damn, if I were rich, I'd never sell my neuronium, which I've bought and sold twice. Incredibly great sounding and simultaneously infuriating piece of expensive analog crap/brilliance.

 

But that's the thing. There is your overall studio, or system, or whatever you want to call it, and I'm including the concept of workflow in that. there's the overall finances....and then there is also the appreciation for individual pieces of gear.

 

I {censored}ing (in all of my bannings and unbannings, and fistfights and hugs with Paolo and Gus I forget - can I actually say that? I really want to.) love the Neuronium for instance. Forget that insect noises insanity. This thing can sound like OOrgani{censored}xshniglsut 100x the size of earth crashing into the known universe and imploding it into a Gaswarhn spleen, and shouting bloody murder. But then you're investing (if you're lucky and find a cheap used one) $2500 in this thing that is tempting to use all of the time, but you know you can't, and then you have this huge investment in something that you can't justify spending all of that bleeping (can I say that?) money.

 

And it's like - I just posted a p3 spam (with a retraction clause). What an amazing device. I missed having it. But then I got one again and I don't use it. Maybe I should be banned. Maybe this has nothing to do with logic. Maybe I'm just bad, or (horrors) evil, pronounce 'e ville', as truly evil people will concur with.

 

So, it's always a battle between love of individual pieces, and trying to get the whole system/workflow right, and it's hard not to make mistakes, and now I'm getting all teary eyed, and damn if I don't feel like selling the whole studio and resuming my pro golfing career.

[Gene Schwartz]

Man, you ARE drunk. Your sense of self importance seems to increase exponentially with your alcohol intake. The ONLY more egregrious examples of this that I've seen are people who actually post to themselves under a different username. But, I admit, I haven't seen that one in an awfully long time.

[soundxplorer]

I've bought and sold a desktop Evolver three times.

Love/Hate.

[droolmaster0]

hah - I've bought and sold one twice. But I bought a polyevolver rack and then sold it, and bought a pek and then returned it because I realized that the multimode was deliberately disabled by Dave Smith. So that should count for something.

[Obsidious]

I'd never sell anything if I could manage it, no matter how crappy and useless. I'm a sentimental packrat slut, it's my cross to bear. I still emit the occasional girly sigh over every single piece of gear i've lost in the past (usually sold to keep from starving/becoming homeless), from stylophone upwards.

[keybdwizrd]

I think sometimes the GASsing is more of the hobby than the actual playing. And sometimes one lusts after something only to find that it doesn't live up to unrealistic expectations. And then there's the endless search for the instrument that one believes will unleash the inner genius that is certain to exist, if only one had the proper knobbage.

 

I am quite confident I'm not the only keyboardist who believes that I'd compose more music if I didn't have so much stuff to fiddle around with all the time.

 

I should just put it all away and go back to the piano. I did that once before, for two years.

[oldgearguy]

Over the past 20 years I've bought and sold MKS-80/MPG-80's over a dozen times. It's always one of the first pieces I'd add back after a gear contraction and it was always the first to go when I wanted to raise some funds.

 

Everything else kind of tended to come in and stay for a while. Don't get me started on the Neuronium. The amount of arrogance the designer showed when I dared ask if he'd ever fix the crippling bugs in the OS turned me completely off any product he ever produces.

 

It's not necessarily a matter of getting the workflow right. If you have a discerning ear, you know that every piece of gear occupies a unique corner of the sonic palette. Sure you can make a Jupiter-8 sound like an OB-Xa or like a Prophet 5 or .... but they're all really slightly different.

 

Most of the time my problem was not the re-buying, but rather the 'lets keep them all' problem.

 

It boils down to the fact that you convince yourself you need this, that, or all of the above to make the kind of music you hear in your head when in fact you don't. Yes, you need some core gear for certain types of sounds, but in general, you could easily go through your pile of gear and weed out all the fringe contributors, sit down with the reduced pile, rejoice in the simplification of MIDI routing, analog cv/gate cabling, clocking, and minimizing the number of patchbay connections because more gear can sit on dedicated mixer channels, and actually produce the music in your head faster and with less distractions than before.

[droolmaster0]

 

I think sometimes the GASsing is more of the hobby than the actual playing. And sometimes one lusts after something only to find that it doesn't live up to unrealistic expectations. And then there's the endless search for the instrument that one believes will unleash the inner genius that is certain to exist, if only one had the proper knobbage. I am quite confident I'm not the only keyboardist who believes that I'd compose more music if I didn't have so much stuff to fiddle around with all the time. I should just put it all away and go back to the piano. I did that once before, for two years.

 

 

Again, it's the 'I'm only interested in the music, not anything related to the gear' arrogance. Yes - I think that it is, and we've been through this before.

 

Look - you have a VERY different aesthetic and you should recognize that. You are a keyboard PLAYER. I am a violin player, though I very rarely play anymore. And while it's fun to sit down at a keyboard, I'm far from a keyboard player. I'm into timbre, and I'm into stuff evolving, and I'm into rhythm, but I have NO connection to the importance of this being done by my fingers. I do like tweaking knobs, and making stuff happen in real time, but keyboard technique doesn't play into it.

 

Nothing of what you say has any connection to my experience. But, contrarily to what you have suggested multiple times, I AM interested in the music. How do you explain that?

 

I'd say that we're not even close to talking the same language.

[sleepykeith]

i've been sick with the gas before... real sick. scouring over craigslist and ebay for the next vintage/analog/boutique/custom/blah/blah/blah.

 

i would go to bed dreaming about the perfect rig and all the beautiful sounds i would make. i paid way more for things than they were worth and sold them for way less. gas makes you do funny things... i don't wish it on my worst enemy.

[droolmaster0]

 

Over the past 20 years I've bought and sold MKS-80/MPG-80's over a dozen times. It's always one of the first pieces I'd add back after a gear contraction and it was always the first to go when I wanted to raise some funds.

 

 

I cannot even approach that. My respect for you knows no bounds. Not entirely a joke. I think that a lot of thought and torment goes into these repeated decisions/mistakes/decision/mistakes.

 

 

Everything else kind of tended to come in and stay for a while. Don't get me started on the Neuronium. The amount of arrogance the designer showed when I dared ask if he'd ever fix the crippling bugs in the OS turned me completely off any product he ever produces.

 

 

YOU KNOW WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT. (inner cheer). You've obviously played one and know its potential. Yeah - Juergen is a strange guy. I also emailed him on the jomox list (and I believe privately as I recall) about some of the blatant issues, but his attitude is, well, if not arrogant, something that can be interpreted as such by an intelligent person. It was one of the reasons that I eventually sold it, though I can't promise that I wouldn't have sold it eventually anyway.

 

 

It's not necessarily a matter of getting the workflow right. If you have a discerning ear, you know that every piece of gear occupies a unique corner of the sonic palette. Sure you can make a Jupiter-8 sound like an OB-Xa or like a Prophet 5 or .... but they're all really slightly different.

 

 

But is the 'sonic palette' the only variable? I'd say that workflow IS important.

 

 

Most of the time my problem was not the re-buying, but rather the 'lets keep them all' problem. It boils down to the fact that you convince yourself you need this, that, or all of the above to make the kind of music you hear in your head when in fact you don't. Yes, you need some core gear for certain types of sounds, but in general, you could easily go through your pile of gear and weed out all the fringe contributors, sit down with the reduced pile, rejoice in the simplification of MIDI routing, analog cv/gate cabling, clocking, and minimizing the number of patchbay connections because more gear can sit on dedicated mixer channels, and actually produce the music in your head faster and with less distractions than before.

 

 

hmmm - I find that the music that 'exists' in my head can evolve with the possibilities revealed by what I have. So there is that battle - simplify to get to the music in your head faster, and 'complexify' to expand the music that you can imagine.

[droolmaster0]

 

i've been sick with the gas before... real sick. scouring over craigslist and ebay for the next vintage/analog/boutique/custom/blah/blah/blah. i would go to bed dreaming about the perfect rig and all the beautiful sounds i would make. i paid way more for things than they were worth and sold them for way less. gas makes you do funny things... i don't wish it on my worst enemy.

 

 

You're a sick person. Join the club.

[Cygnus64]

 

I am a violin player, though I very rarely play anymore.

 

 

 

Classical?

[droolmaster0]

 

I'd never sell anything if I could manage it, no matter how crappy and useless. I'm a sentimental packrat slut, it's my cross to bear. I still emit the occasional girly sigh over every single piece of gear i've lost in the past (usually sold to keep from starving/becoming homeless), from stylophone upwards.

 

 

Do you have any recordings of these sighs?

[droolmaster0]

 

Classical?

 

 

Originally, but I just haven't done that in a LONG time. And also, in my city apt, when I do occasionally 'whip it out', it's the zeta. But in my fantasies, I'd love to be able to play a great version of the Bach Chaconne. (hope I spelled that right. Embarassing if not, but too lazy to look it up)

[AfroRouge]

I've done the buy/sell/buy on the Sherman, but in general I don't miss the stuff I've sold. It's gone because I didn't jive with it. This keeps me from getting too worked up over the Blofeld hypefest, because of my past experience with Waldorf. On the whole I think the gear shifting has taught me discipline (in the sense that it's taught me what I like in gear).

 

I've been on a GAS rampage lately because I've got an income again after years in school, but there's very little left on my shopping list . . . and that's ok.

 

Chimay is tasty.

[oldgearguy]

 

But is the 'sonic palette' the only variable? I'd say that workflow IS important. hmmm - I find that the music that 'exists' in my head can evolve with the possibilities revealed by what I have. So there is that battle - simplify to get to the music in your head faster, and 'complexify' to expand the music that you can imagine.

 

 

I agree workflow is important. I was fortunate in that my lust for analog came during a down time for the gear (mid/late 80's through much of the 90's) so I could afford to buy something, see if it jibed with my workflow and sell it if it didn't.

 

The Notron is a perfect example. I instantly got along with the way the designers were thinking and it just made sense to me. Many folks on the Notron list sold them off and bought an MAQ 16/3 instead because it fit them better.

 

The only questionable workflow item I still have around is the Chroma. Everything else is either simple enough or has enough knobs to be easy to use no matter how long it's been since I last used it.

[cl516]

i too have done the buy/sell thing on the sherman.

yesterday i re-bought an SE-1X. very happy about that.

[droolmaster0]

 

I've done the buy/sell/buy on the Sherman, but in general I don't miss the stuff I've sold. It's gone because I didn't jive with it. This keeps me from getting too worked up over the Blofeld hypefest, because of my past experience with Waldorf. On the whole I think the gear shifting has taught me discipline (in the sense that it's taught me what I like in gear). I've been on a GAS rampage lately because I've got an income again after years in school, but there's very little left on my shopping list . . . and that's ok. Chimay is tasty.

 

 

Thinking about another try at the Sherman myself. It's another piece of gear that I love/hate. I don't miss most of the stuff that I've sold. But sometimes I do, and sometimes it's a delayed onset reaction.

 

Now, how about working out a trade between my prophet 08 se and your 777...

[droolmaster0]

 

It's also fundamentally an addiction. I got addicted to the hunt.

 

 

hmmmm. I'm not sure if it's fundamentally an addiction, shifts back and forth between being fundamentally an addiction, being an intense desire to enhance the roadblocks in your setup from both realizing the ideas in your head and evolving them, or an addiction to this entire process...and obviously the uncertainty in this analysis varies from person to person.

 

 

Get an idea for a piece of gear in your head, then you obsess about tracking it down for a good price and when it's delivered, every day is like Christmas.

 

 

Well, there is really nothing like receiving that package of some new expensive piece that you've ordered. What a rush. I never got {censored} like that at Christmas, or Hanukah, or whatever. It's like, Christmas if my parents had been really rich and spoiled me...

 

 

Acquisition fever got so bad that I'd often have a synth sitting still boxed up for 2 or 3 days after it arrived before I got around to opening it.

 

 

Because you'd have so much stuff arriving at the same time, or because you were moving so slowly?

 

 

I did see the potential despite the obtuse descriptions in the manual. I wasn't asking for anything big - just make the knobs respond so you could turn a parameter through it's entire value (0 to 255) not from 1 to 242 or 253. Not being able to turn off bits in the sequencer generators and the mom and dad thingies (I forget his term) was the killer. Not releasing the sysex format so I could write a computer program to manually turn them off didn't help my mood. I reverse engineered most of the sysex dump before finally saying enough and selling it off.

 

 

I'm trying to remember the stuff that annoyed me. As I recall it was mostly the midi implementation. Really bad, and he just seemed to be saying that, hey - you have a piece of really boutique gear, be glad it works at all.

 

Even with all of those issues, I fantasize about getting one again. I hope I have the willpower to restrain myself. Nothing sounds like it. Wise guys post about how, well, huh, in theory, you could reproduce that sound in Reaktor, or in Reaktor if you were taking the right combination of drugs. Nah - nothign I've ever played sounds like the Neuronium.

 

 

I agree workflow is important. I was fortunate in that my lust for analog came during a down time for the gear (mid/late 80's through much of the 90's) so I could afford to buy something, see if it jibed with my workflow and sell it if it didn't. The Notron is a perfect example. I instantly got along with the way the designers were thinking and it just made sense to me. Many folks on the Notron list sold them off and bought an MAQ 16/3 instead because it fit them better. The only questionable workflow item I still have around is the Chroma. Everything else is either simple enough or has enough knobs to be easy to use no matter how long it's been since I last used it.

 

 

hmmm - I'm interested in an opinion on the Chroma's work flow versus it's capabilties vs its sound. Occasionally I've had the opportunity to get one, and I've scared myself off, but I kind of want to try one. What I hear is that it is a tremendously capable synth with a lousy interface.

 

I've also never tried a Notron. I'd like to, but the prices generally scare me off.

[soundxplorer]

yesterday i re-bought an SE-1X. very happy about that.

 

You're happy because it was only yesterday. Give it time.

 

Just kidding. But I am familiar with the cycle. not with SE stuff, but others.

[ShakaCthulu]

It's really hard to find things that just "click" with your way of working. And it's good IMO because it gives others the opportunity to get a bit of a break on rare or newer equipment. I don't think it's that strange, and though I can have a good idea of what will work for me, it's hard when you live somewhere you can't test things out, especially boutique stuff. If I knew 100% what makes things work for me, I could've saved myself a lot of money, but at least I have a 90% idea.

[carbon111]

I admit - there are some pieces of equipment that I am ambivalent about. I've bought and sold them more than once. In a couple of cases, I think twice.

 

I'm on my third Prophet600, My second Pro-one and I've owned four FS1Rs over the years but don't own one now... there's other gear I've owned more than once but I don't much feel like going into that now...

 

...if I were rich, I would just keep everything. So a trivial factor in all of this is limited funds.

 

Exactly.

 

...my neuronium, which I've bought and sold twice. Incredibly great sounding and simultaneously infuriating piece of expensive analog crap/brilliance.

 

My nemesis, in a similar vein, is the Yamaha FS1R - lovely synth, just really nice. Worst. UI. Ever.

 

But that's the thing. There is your overall studio, or system, or whatever you want to call it, and I'm including the concept of workflow in that. there's the overall finances....and then there is also the appreciation for individual pieces of gear.

 

That's the other reason, besides money, that I don't have 20+ keyboards anymore (I did at one time)...

 

So, it's always a battle between love of individual pieces, and trying to get the whole system/workflow right, and it's hard not to make mistakes, and now I'm getting all teary eyed, and damn if I don't feel like selling the whole studio and resuming my pro golfing career.

 

If its any consolation, I'm in complete accord.

 

The saving grace for me just now is that the way my studio is configured at this temporary frozen moment of time has actually been an enabling thing - I've made more music in the last six months than in the last for years...most of it of decent quality thankfully.

 

We'll see how things go...I still have this weird irrational gearlust for analog monosynths...but no place to put them...or any more keyboards, period.

 

Damn.

[droolmaster0]

 

... We'll see how things go...I still have this weird irrational gearlust for analog monosynths...but no place to put them...or any more keyboards, period. Damn.

 

 

I love analog monosynths, especially of the semi-modular variety, and then the modular variety, to which probably 'monosynth' is not quite the correct term. I always have to control myself from selling all of my keyboards to get modular/semi-modular stuff. I 'forced' myself to by an Andromeda recently just so I'd have a nice polyphonic synth. Tried the Blofeld - nah, and I"m desperately trying to unload the p08 that I just bought. I really like the Andromeda, and probably need to have it around. But my heart is really with the really cool monophonic/semi-modular/modular analog gear. And I'd trade my andromeda + the p08, or the andromeda + the p3, or the p8 + the p3, for a sunsyn. All of my bannings are deserved for selling that one, stupid heathen that I am. Best non-modular synth that I've ever used by a WIDE margin.

[stikygum]

I think sometimes the GASsing is more of the hobby than the actual playing. And sometimes one lusts after something only to find that it doesn't live up to unrealistic expectations. And then there's the endless search for the instrument that one believes will unleash the inner genius that is certain to exist, if only one had the proper knobbage.

 

Ain't that the truth. I use to make much more music with a little amount of gear. Now that I have quite a few too many tools, I get lost, distracted, and loose any little focus I had going into the studio. I really like Idiotboy's approach of selling something before you can buy. Damn that took guts to sell his FR XS, still can't believe it (but I understood he wanted a sequencer synth). I've been thinking more about doing this......problem is I've thought too much.

 

One program I bought to Remedy all this is Redmatica Autosampler. Basically it will record all the patches of your synths and make them into samples, so you can play them on EXS24 or whatever sampler you have. The funny thing is I plan to do this with my Evolver, even though this is one of the few synths you buy for the modulated sequences it pumps out. But for me, the thing I like most are the digital Osc believe it or not. I love hybrids though.

 

Besides keybdwizrd's reason, I think the other reason for GAS is actually synthesis itself. Sound design can lead anyone astray and tweak,tweak,jam,tweak til the sun comes up. Sounds odd, but I think most here are focused on the sound they can get from a synth rather than making a song. If not, we would be on one of those other sites where everyone posts their music and people pick songs to battle and rack up votes. That sounds silly, but I'm sure there are other places to just post tunes and critique other's music. I know we have one, but it's not the same in conjunction. Admit it, ours is about hearing what synth can make what sound.

 

3rd and Last comment - If we used the synths we buy and made an album with them, then it would feel justifyable to sell them and get new ones. But people are greedy and hold on to their synths for the reason the Wiz put above. I'd say we would be highly evolved if we could get past this. Like a buddha, reaching an enlightened state of synthesis

[droolmaster0]

Ain't that the truth. I use to make much more music with a little amount of gear. Now that I have quite a few too many tools, I get lost, distracted, and loose any little focus I had going into the studio. I really like Idiotboy's approach of selling something before you can buy. Damn that took guts to sell his FR XS, still can't believe it (but I understood he wanted a sequencer synth). I've been thinking more about doing this... ...problem is I've thought too much. One program I bought to Remedy all this is Redmatica Autosampler. Basically it will record all the patches of your synths and make them into samples, so you can play them on EXS24 or whatever sampler you have. The funny thing is I plan to do this with my Evolver, even though this is one of the few synths you buy for the modulated sequences it pumps out. But for me, the thing I like most are the digital Osc believe it or not. I love hybrids though. Besides keybdwizrd's reason, I think the other reason for GAS is actually synthesis itself. Sound design can lead anyone astray and tweak,tweak,jam,tweak til the sun comes up. Sounds odd, but I think most here are focused on the sound they can get from a synth rather than making a song. If not, we would be on one of those other sites where everyone posts their music and people pick songs to battle and rack up votes. That sounds silly, but I'm sure there are other places to just post tunes and critique other's music. I know we have one, but it's not the same in conjunction. Admit it, ours is about hearing what synth can make what sound. 3rd and Last comment - If we used the synths we buy and made an album with them, then it would feel justifyable to sell them and get new ones. But people are greedy and hold on to their synths for the reason the Wiz put above. I'd say we would be highly evolved if we could get past this. Like a buddha, reaching an enlightened state of synthesis

 

hmmm - trying to figure out exactly what the thought process is. You send me pm's challenging my gear decisions, and then you don't reply to my responses.

 

If less is truly more, then what is more? If more is more, then it is the same as less, and that is apparently good. If more is less, then it is more, and that is also apparently good.

 

Should we be writing 'songs'? Damn - if you want to write songs per se, if you really want to be doing that, it's great. But maybe you're doing something different than some people who really like making and tinkering with sound. That latter can certainly be music, but is it creating 'songs'? Probably not - but then maybe I don't want to be on a site where I'm posting 'tunes'. Very different way of looking at things, and leads to very different ways of thinking about gear and sound.