Members Vintagekeys Posted January 27, 2009 Members Share Posted January 27, 2009 As usually, I am in the market for the next best performance board and addition to my home studio. Recently I came across Roland's new Juno Stage courtesy of my monthly American Musical Supply catalog. I of course went to the Roland site and gave it a cursory glance - kind of impressed. Today I went to my local GC (of course horrible service and no product knowledge what so ever) to further research and test drive the unit. The sounds of course are inspired by the Fantom X series (Not bad, actually pretty good), it does have some new features (USB playback, Mic input, real time controls on deck - All nice); however, I could not help but feel the board was a WATERED down version of the previous Fantom X series, so far I have yet to find a reason to add the Juno to my repertoire as it does not seem that it would be a compliment to my FP4 over the Fantom X7 (it is lighter than the Fantom X7) or a worth while addition to the home studio. Does anyone have a counter argument in defense of the Juno Stage? Am I missing something, some hidden feature, added value (other than its GREAT cost) someone please advise? IMO the Juno stage is really not anything new to the scene. So I am left still seeking a suitable lightweight compliment to my FP4 and a noteworthy addition to my home studio. I am eager to here your opinions in support or against my position, also any suggestions on suitable boards to add to the line up would be appreciated. Unfortunately you cannot have this type of spirited and sensible debate with some of the help at the local GCs and Sam Ashes so I must come here to start the dialogue. Regards Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Yoozer Posted January 27, 2009 Members Share Posted January 27, 2009 however, I could not help but feel the board was a WATERED down version of the previous Fantom X series Of course it is, it's intended for another segment of the market. That's what the Juno name implies - the lower-budget line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Speedyjx Posted January 27, 2009 Members Share Posted January 27, 2009 As far as I've seen it's a keyboard version of the SonicCell, which uses the Fantom G's chip appearently. I know the SonicCell has some shared patches with the G. But as far as the sounds go, if you're happy with how your Fantom X sounds and don't really any of the live player oriented layout (like their catagory buttons on the front panel) then you can probably give it a miss. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members FifthElement Posted January 27, 2009 Members Share Posted January 27, 2009 I looked at the Juno stage for some time but the Fantom/XV sound set has become a bit tired for me now. If you are looking for a budget, lightweight performance keyboard with a quality sound set (from the M3) I suggest you try out the Korg M50 - you get a touch screen and sequencer too for the price. 73 key version coming out soon if you don't want 61 or 88. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members midi Posted January 27, 2009 Members Share Posted January 27, 2009 Stay away from the Junos...Bad Karma! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members KJI Posted January 27, 2009 Members Share Posted January 27, 2009 "Watered-down version of the Fantom X series" actually captures the essence of what the Juno Stage is all about - a budget 76-key synth with above-par quality, mainly through recycling old technology. Especially in your case (already have an X7, looking for a compliment to FP4 or studio), the Stage doesn't offer any benefits, I would think. So, basically, you were exactly right Regarding the need for the new synth, I guess the main question is what sounds you need. If you're happy with the X7, perhaps moving to a X6 would give you the portability without making much sacrifices. What kind of sounds do you find lacking for your needs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Vintagekeys Posted January 27, 2009 Author Members Share Posted January 27, 2009 I looked at the Juno stage for some time but the Fantom/XV sound set has become a bit tired for me now. If you are looking for a budget, lightweight performance keyboard with a quality sound set (from the M3) I suggest you try out the Korg M50 - you get a touch screen and sequencer too for the price. 73 key version coming out soon if you don't want 61 or 88. You know I have been looking at the M50 and I think Korg has improved the soundset exponentially especially with the Pianos and EPs, but no word on when the 76 version is coming online.... I am hoping they still bring it to market, but not convinced they will do it with the weakening global economy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Vintagekeys Posted January 27, 2009 Author Members Share Posted January 27, 2009 "Watered-down version of the Fantom X series" actually captures the essence of what the Juno Stage is all about - a budget 76-key synth with above-par quality, mainly through recycling old technology. Especially in your case (already have an X7, looking for a compliment to FP4 or studio), the Stage doesn't offer any benefits, I would think. So, basically, you were exactly right Regarding the need for the new synth, I guess the main question is what sounds you need. If you're happy with the X7, perhaps moving to a X6 would give you the portability without making much sacrifices. What kind of sounds do you find lacking for your needs? I really want a synth with killer synth leads, strings, BASSES a must. I liked the Roland V-Synth GT but again toooooo pricey and no EPs, I can even deal with the 61 keys. The desire is to get something with great all around patches specifically the a fore mentioned sounds in addition to great rhodes and guitars patches, as those sounds are lacking or weak in the FP4, all other onboard meat and potato sounds (Wurly, Pianos, strings) are great in the FP4. Something new to fill the void of the missing sounds is what I am after. I thought about the Sonic cell as it is expandable but again I would only have 1 board vs 2 that is needed during gigs. Additionally I want some additional sounds for my home studio to augment what I have in the X7, different keyboard series and manufactures boast new sounds or takes on standard sounds. I would not get another Fantom X as it would be a redundant purchase, when at home the X6 would add nothing new to the studio. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ChristianRock Posted January 27, 2009 Members Share Posted January 27, 2009 Why not upgrade the Triton Extreme to an M3-73 + Radias + Memory? With the current expanded soundsets it would give you what you're looking for, IMHO, and you'd still have most of the Extreme sounds in the Triton Rack. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Vintagekeys Posted January 27, 2009 Author Members Share Posted January 27, 2009 Why not upgrade the Triton Extreme to an M3-73 + Radias + Memory? With the current expanded soundsets it would give you what you're looking for, IMHO, and you'd still have most of the Extreme sounds in the Triton Rack. Thats a thought, I definitely think I will get the M50 (but where is the 73, whats the hold up?) but I can't live without that tube on the Extreme, MAN is really is a great feature for adding some bit and grit to sounds....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ChristianRock Posted January 27, 2009 Members Share Posted January 27, 2009 Thats a thought, I definitely think I will get the M50 (but where is the 73, whats the hold up?) but I can't live without that tube on the Extreme, MAN is really is a great feature for adding some bit and grit to sounds....... Well then flip the Triton rack and its expansions and other things that you have that are redundant... like the 5050 or 5080... why get the M50 if you can get the higher-end version with a much more expanded soundset? The pianos and EPs on the M50 won't be able to compare to the newly expanded M3 sets, not to mention the synth sounds won't compare with having an actual Radias card. It will be the difference between pro sounds and semi-pro sounds... I don't even know why you are looking at semi-pro boards, considering the amount of gear you already have... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members akliner Posted January 27, 2009 Members Share Posted January 27, 2009 Thats a thought, I definitely think I will get the M50 (but where is the 73, whats the hold up?) but I can't live without that tube on the Extreme, MAN is really is a great feature for adding some bit and grit to sounds....... You know, since I haven't gotten the PC3x yet, I only have the TE to play on. I fooled around with it for hours yesterday, and I've concluded that THE TRITON EXTREME IS A DAMN FINE INSTRUMENT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members mrcpro Posted January 27, 2009 Members Share Posted January 27, 2009 There have been numerous reports from Juno Stage users about the keyboard sending false velocity values. Plus the demo at my local GC is already exhibiting problems with the knobs. It's a budget board. I love the M50 88 and it's wonderful action, but if the M50 73 has the same very budget keybed as the 61 I wouldn't go that route either. Play that 61 first and see if you can live with it! You currently have no Yamaha so I'd recommend adding a used Motif ES7 to your shopping list. It would be in the same price range. I'm quite happy with mine as a gigging board. Quality keybed and hardware (I mean it's built like a tank), and the sounds are very serviceable. It's often the only board I take to my one nighter gigs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members FifthElement Posted January 27, 2009 Members Share Posted January 27, 2009 Well then flip the Triton rack and its expansions and other things that you have that are redundant... like the 5050 or 5080... why get the M50 if you can get the higher-end version with a much more expanded soundset? The pianos and EPs on the M50 won't be able to compare to the newly expanded M3 sets, not to mention the synth sounds won't compare with having an actual Radias card. It will be the difference between pro sounds and semi-pro sounds... I don't even know why you are looking at semi-pro boards, considering the amount of gear you already have... You can load the basic M3 expanded patches onto the M50. The latest Pro Vintage Keys set (for M3 and M50) released free by Korg has some of the best EPs I've ever heard plus clavs. The pianos, organs, guitars (particularly overdriven) and synths on the M50 are already more than a match for anything else from Roland and Yamaha IMO. Every sound is of pro quality and dynamic - particularly good at cutting through in a live mix. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Vintagekeys Posted January 27, 2009 Author Members Share Posted January 27, 2009 Well then flip the Triton rack and its expansions and other things that you have that are redundant... like the 5050 or 5080... why get the M50 if you can get the higher-end version with a much more expanded soundset? The pianos and EPs on the M50 won't be able to compare to the newly expanded M3 sets, not to mention the synth sounds won't compare with having an actual Radias card. It will be the difference between pro sounds and semi-pro sounds... I don't even know why you are looking at semi-pro boards, considering the amount of gear you already have... Thanks Chris Rock (LOL - jus kidding) you have a point, the price on some of these boards frustrate me, why would I pay $2000+ for a board when I can get many of the features with various other instruments together (this is why I have not pushed the button on the new Motif XS I loved my ES boards and racks but cannot justify the cost of the new series, I most likely will look for a used S90es for the Yamaha sounds in the studio). I have not been able to justify purchasing a board over $1750, its just absurd to me, The M3 73 is almost $500 over my mark, I did consider the 61 but I really prefer the extra octave. The M50 though in a cheaper is physical quality seems to add some of the basic features (sounds) of the M3 but in a cost conscience package. I know it does not have all the whistles and bells but I rarely would use the onboard sequencer for any keyboard so lots of the M3 sequencer features are over kill for me, my MPC is the sequencer of choice dumped into Protools. The XV5050 and 5080 are 2 different beasts and the soundset are different, there are unique sounds for each, plus the aggregate expansion options of both allow me to add 10 sound cards to them (6 SRX and 4 SRJV). I can easily add what ever sounds I want and layer sounds with the 2 modules. When Roland combined SRJV cards together in SRX cards one lost the ability to seperate and layer some sounds together. With both racks I can extract specific sound sets (ex. 60s and 70s card in the XV5080 and Ultimate Keys card - includes 4-5 SRJV cards - in the XV5050, I can now play sounds on the 60/70 card with any other sound on the Ultimate keys card) The same applies for the Triton rack and TR rack different sound pallets and the ability to layer 2 different racks together for my own unique blends of sounds. I will not mess with my rack set, I've got that where I want it after years of sampling various rack units. Maybe the answer is to get a USED M3-73 if I can find for $1750.00 and purchase the expansion cards (Radias). That may solve the issue but I am sure the M3 is a pretty heavy board to lug around...... That was my issue with the Motif ES7 at almost 60lbs + the FP4 (40lbs), speakers, stands I was moving too much weight around up and down the stairs... Do you really think the M50 is semi-pro sounds, aren't the sounds taken from the M3? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Vintagekeys Posted January 27, 2009 Author Members Share Posted January 27, 2009 :thu: Yes sir, gots to keep that board just for GP!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members mrcpro Posted January 27, 2009 Members Share Posted January 27, 2009 Here's a used M3 73 in my local CL: http://portland.craigslist.org/mlt/msg/1004881171.html That was my issue with the Motif ES7 at almost 60lbs... I lug mine around in a heavy duty foam bag. Total weight maybe around 45 pounds. I can do it with one hand. The hardware on this board is very sturdy and can take it in a foam bag as long as you are doing the moving. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members mrcpro Posted January 27, 2009 Members Share Posted January 27, 2009 Here's another M3 73 here in PDX CL: http://portland.craigslist.org/mlt/msg/1003149598.html Two! Two to choose from in one metro area! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ChristianRock Posted January 27, 2009 Members Share Posted January 27, 2009 Do you really think the M50 is semi-pro sounds, aren't the sounds taken from the M3? The sounds of the M50 are pro, it's just that with the memory expansion the M3 can hold quite a bit more sounds. The M50 can only load patches form the M3, but it can't load the newer samples, like a vastly superior grand piano, woodwinds, horns and a lot more stuff you'll find in the Korg website. The M50 will have the basic M3 soundset though, which is quite good. But my main concern would be lack of expandability (for the newer samples and for synth sounds especially), and the materials quality. The M50 seems to have a cheaper keybed while all the keybeds on the M3 line are gorgeous and sturdy and should be very gig-worthy. The M3-61 weights 31lbs and the M3-73 weights 38lbs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Vintagekeys Posted January 27, 2009 Author Members Share Posted January 27, 2009 There have been numerous reports from Juno Stage users about the keyboard sending false velocity values. Plus the demo at my local GC is already exhibiting problems with the knobs. It's a budget board. I love the M50 88 and it's wonderful action, but if the M50 73 has the same very budget keybed as the 61 I wouldn't go that route either. Play that 61 first and see if you can live with it! You currently have no Yamaha so I'd recommend adding a used Motif ES7 to your shopping list. It would be in the same price range. I'm quite happy with mine as a gigging board. Quality keybed and hardware (I mean it's built like a tank), and the sounds are very serviceable. It's often the only board I take to my one nighter gigs. Yeah you are right on the Yamaha, I used to own the ES7 and ES rack, I sold them both to upgrade to the XS7 - so I thought, but when I went to push the button on it, I was a little turned off with the price tag, I knew the price upfront when I decided to sell the ESs but putting $3000 in the hands of GC just seemed to be a bit ridiculous considering the economy, GCs poor service, I was starting to feel buyers remorse before I even swiped the card. In any event I think Yamaha is seriously Price gouging, of course the wife convinced me to spend some of the spoils of the ES sales on some house hold requests and I ended up buying a Rhodes Suitcase (Which I LOVE!!! :love:) and a used XS6 for test purposes. I loved the sounds and feature but could not get around the 61 keys, need 76 keys so I sold that 2 weeks later. Seriously The Juno stage is out the equation with all the comments left, The M50 - 73 is a contender but I really need to determine if I can get used to the keybed on it. Finding used XS7s and M3-73 at a good price is a bit difficult even on Ebay..... too many bidders bidding them up. Is there any other good all around board out there from any of the key players in a 76 key version? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Vintagekeys Posted January 27, 2009 Author Members Share Posted January 27, 2009 Here's a used M3 73 in my local CL:http://portland.craigslist.org/mlt/msg/1004881171.htmlI lug mine around in a heavy duty foam bag. Total weight maybe around 45 pounds. I can do it with one hand. The hardware on this board is very sturdy and can take it in a foam bag as long as you are doing the moving. Looks like a great price but you know NO ONE on CL wants to deal with out of towners.... They are all afraid with scams rightfully so.... If they ebayed it I would be on it but again all the other potential buyers always bid up the price out of reasonable range for a used piece. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ChristianRock Posted January 27, 2009 Members Share Posted January 27, 2009 Just don't spend too much time here listening to the demos of the 640Mbs of sounds available for the M3, and you'll be fine with the M50 By the way, a tube preamp can easily do what your tubes in the Triton Extreme do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Vintagekeys Posted January 27, 2009 Author Members Share Posted January 27, 2009 Just don't spend too much time here listening to the demos of the 640Mbs of sounds available for the M3, and you'll be fine with the M50 By the way, a tube preamp can easily do what your tubes in the Triton Extreme do. Wow pretty impressive have you seen the video on the M50 seems to be quite a beast, but that M3 with the Radius is quite a looker....... Anyone have a Used M3-73 for sale? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members synthman1 Posted January 27, 2009 Members Share Posted January 27, 2009 There have been numerous reports from Juno Stage users about the keyboard sending false velocity values. Plus the demo at my local GC is already exhibiting problems with the knobs. It's a budget board. Roland has a lot of balls to even put the word "Stage" in its name. (See my rant about the lack of aftertouch on it.) They should have called it the Juno-Bedroom. This board isnt going find it way on many "stages". This was definitely a "Suits in a Boardroom" project gone over a cliff. How many D Batteries does it take again? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Vintagekeys Posted January 28, 2009 Author Members Share Posted January 28, 2009 Yes I agree it's pretty flimsy, not what it was gases up to be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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