What describes John Sykes Whitesnake "87" Tone?

[danjovi]

What is an accurate way to describe John Sykes tone on this White Snake Album?

 

Like some people like to cut mids, crunchy, heavy gain, mild gain, lots of mids/treble, extra bass, no bass, ect...?

 

I'm not really good with being able to tell what type of sound guitarists have.

 

So im curious what is the tone John Sykes on this album?

 

im not good with it so don't slam me

 

but it sounds like a lot of mids/treble, lots of pre-amp gain, and not much bass?

 

What is an accurate way to describe his tone here?

[Chubtone]

I think for it's time it had tons of low end. Keep in mind, 1987 was recorded before guitarists tried to sound like bass players.

[Simon Garlick]

It helps to have some points of reference. To me, Sykes's 1987 tone is simply the classic Mesa saturated distortion sound. It sounds almost too thick to be the Mk III I know it is; to my ears it's verging on an early Dual Rectifier tone (I can see why Sykes used to use DRs live).

 

It's a thick, high-preamp-gain, 6L6 Mesa tone.

 

IIRC, Bob Rock helped Sykes get that tone.

[danjovi]

haha.. well I think it just sounds good over-all.

 

I know what you mean by people trying to have a buttload more bass these days in guitar though.

 

 

But you didn't even leave me your answer of what the sound is ? : (

 

im sick too...

 

dont i get some kind of fun? : (

 

[danjovi]

yeah.. it almost sounds like more gain than the MKIII has.

 

But he used 2 MKIII Colloseums, so maybe that gave him that extra boost of gain?

 

Thats a hell of a lot of pre-amp tubes and power tubes ; )

 

was his focus mid/treble?

[5150GSX]

 

Originally posted by danjovi yeah.. it almost sounds like more gain than the MKIII has. But he used 2 MKIII Colloseums, so maybe that gave him that extra boost of gain? Thats a hell of a lot of pre-amp tubes and power tubes ; ) was his focus mid/treble?

 

 

He layered multiple tracks. You could make any amp sound like it has ungodly amounts of gain by layering multiple tracks.

[danjovi]

I don't think 10 gain is too much for my MK III is it?

 

haha

 

it still sounds articulate to me

[Gaf-Yag-A-Ton]

Its the classic "Gibson Dirty Fingers" pickup tone.

 

A pickup that never caught on back when it was new. Was discontinued. It has since been re-released.......and still hasnt caught on.

 

STRIKE 2.

[Whammyless]

There was a post not too long ago where, Gainfreak described some of what Sykes did. I think he said it was a Mark III coliseum slaved into another Mark III with a chorus and wah in between. You can definitely hear a wah on the solo "Straight for the Heart"; at least it sounds like it to me, for some extra sizzle not the usual "wah, wah" sound.

 

Sykes currently plays with 50 watt Marshall JCM 800 4-holers that don't distort until they are cranked. So, I'm guessing that Sykes likes volume like a lot of people do and that the Mark III's he used on the Whitesnake album are lots of volume with some preamp distortion, not all preamp distortion. As stated, it does sound like the guitars are double-tracked because it sounds huge and very broad.

 

I'd say it's midrangy with just enough treble to give it that gainy sizzle. I don't hear it as a bassy at all. On your Mark III, I'd use the treble at 7 or 8, mids and bass 2-3, gain 7-8 and maybe the graphic in a "w" but not far apart. Just play around with some Whitesnake riffs/licks and compare. You're not going to get the tone exactly without all the studio magic mixed in.

 

And yes, he uses those Dirty Fingers pickups, find an old set on Ebay from an old Gibson V or something. I've heard the repros aren't very good.

[gainfreak]

Hey Bro !!

 

How are you?

 

 

There are a few things to take into consideration with that sound.....well more then a few things lol!!

 

The first thing that I noticed is that when you put something in the loop of a MKIII the gain appears to get hopped up a bit. I'm not sure why but it does it on my MKIII. Another thing is slaving the MKIII also makes the amp appear to have more gain as well as slamming the front end with a wah. Sykes did all of these things on that disc so you need to take these factors into consideration.

 

 

The info I have on that tone is Sykes slaved one of his MKIII coliseum heads into the other head and used a chorus between the 2 amplifiers. You can also definitely hear that he uses a wah as a filter on the solos.

 

No Sykes never said that he used one but I get a sick Sykes tone by using a treble booster in front of the amp. It is kind of my way of getting a similar tone to his without having to slave the amp and it also gives me that saturation at very low volumes.

 

As far as the MKIII setting I use

 

Far left Volume on 10 pulled out

Treble 10 pulled out

Bass 0-2 pushed in

mid 0-2 pushed in

master volume 1 pulled for deep

lead drive 10 pulled out

lead master 5-10 depending on my mood

 

I control the volume at master volume

 

The graphic eq is set for a v patter and is scooped more drastically depending on what speakers I use.

 

I hope this helps

[gainfreak]

I forgot to mention that the speakers used are important. I would go with vintage greenbacks, h30's or the mesa MC90's. Those are the only speakers that I have been able to get the Sykes sounds out of... well what I consider to be the SYkes sound lol!!

 

 

Another thing I forgot to mention is although Sykes did use the dirty fingers pickup he replaced it with a PAF clone years ago and has gotten the same sound. The DF pickup is not that important at all so Gaf-Yag-A-Ton is dead wrong IMHO. That pickup meant very little to the tone.

 

The guitar used made more of a difference.

 

Another thing to take into consideration is that a lot of leads were recorded with a Charvel and not the Gibson. Dont believe me? Listen to some of the leads and you will hear a lot of wammy bar dive bombs. the last I checked, the Gibson didnt have a wammy bar

[danjovi]

yeah, John uses Gibson Classic 57's in his guitars now.

 

Thats what his buddy/guy who runs his site told me.

 

He also told me

 

"the truth is John is gonna sound like John no matter what amp/pick ups he uses. He gets his tone more from his vibrato and way he voices chords"

 

which is true too : )

[Chubtone]

Originally posted by danjovi He also told me "the truth is John is gonna sound like John no matter what amp/pick ups he uses. He gets his tone more from his vibrato and way he voices chords" which is true too : )

 

Totally true. I saw Sykes live once and he was using an Ovation Applause acoustic electric into a Fuzz Face into a Roland JC-120 and he sounded exactly like the first Blue Murder album, except maybe even a little heavier.

 

[Whammyless]

As usual, Gainfreak has the answers, right on mang!

 

Yup, probably help to play like Sykes, too. Like so many great players, they could all probably play through shite equipment and still sound good.

[gainfreak]

Originally posted by danjovi yeah, John uses Gibson Classic 57's in his guitars now. Thats what his buddy/guy who runs his site told me. He also told me "the truth is John is gonna sound like John no matter what amp/pick ups he uses. He gets his tone more from his vibrato and way he voices chords" which is true too : )

 

Yeah I think that is true to a certain extent.... What I mean is that you can tell that it is Sykes playing because of his vibrato and his style but the 2 amp tones that he has used, (The Modded Marshall and Boogie ) are 2 different tones. I loved the tone that John got when he used to use the Boogies. To me that was such a cool lyrical tone and his playing was the icing on the cake!! To me, the way he setup his Boogie yielded such a unique tone whereas the Modded Marshall.... Well, sounds like a Modded Marshall.

 

Yeah.. I'm one of those schmucks who seperates the amp tone from the player

 

[-=MYK=-]

I really love his modded Marshall tone.

 

It's so thick, and crunchy....like a good candy bar might be.

[murky69nz]

To my ear, it is quite scooped in the mids. Although with all the studio magic, it sounds quite full.

 

I think some the album is poorly mixed (in particular some of his lead work is criminally undermixed).

[-=MYK=-]

Originally posted by gainfreak the last I checked, the Gibson didnt have a wammy bar

 

Don't tell me you've never done the 'push on the neck' fake whammy bar trick... :D

[gainfreak]

 

Originally posted by murky69nz To my ear, it is quite scooped in the mids. Although with all the studio magic, it sounds quite full. I think some the album is poorly mixed (in particular some of his lead work is criminally undermixed).

 

 

It is scooped sounding because of the graphic EQ, but the speakers have a lot of midrange to them so it doesn't get washed.

 

I totally agree about the mix.

[gainfreak]

Originally posted by -=MYK=- Don't tell me you've never done the 'push on the neck' fake whammy bar trick... :D

 

Hahaha! Yes I have but you wont get that type of divebomb sound with a gibson without breaking the neck off

[Flanger]

Originally posted by gainfreak Hahaha! Yes I have but you wont get that type of divebomb sound with a gibson without breaking the neck off

 

Yeah, but then there's the shit that Zakk does to simulate divebombs.

[Simon Garlick]

 

Originally posted by danjovi He also told me "the truth is John is gonna sound like John no matter what amp/pick ups he uses. He gets his tone more from his vibrato and way he voices chords" which is true too : )

 

 

I for one hate his Marshall tone. It just doesn't sound like Sykes any more.

[Gaf-Yag-A-Ton]

 

Originally posted by gainfreak Another thing I forgot to mention is although Sykes did use the dirty fingers pickup he replaced it with a PAF clone years ago and has gotten the same sound. The DF pickup is not that important at all so Gaf-Yag-A-Ton is dead wrong IMHO. That pickup meant very little to the tone.

 

 

oh... now pickups ARENT important?

So.... just buy ANY pickup then.

They all have the same sound!!!!????

 

So instead of the "dirty fingers" pickup.... I can use...... an old Duncan Holdsworth..... and nail the Sykes tone??????????????

 

Am I ..... alive correct now?

 

 

[Gaf-Yag-A-Ton]

Attention all pickup companies:

 

you only have to make... ONE PICKUP MODEL... you dolts!!!!

 

We can nail any tone with just that one.

[gainfreak]

 

Originally posted by Gaf-Yag-A-Ton oh... now pickups ARENT important? So.... just buy ANY pickup then. They all have the same sound!!!!???? So instead of the "dirty fingers" pickup.... I can use...... an old Duncan Holdsworth..... and nail the Sykes tone?????????????? Am I ..... alive correct now?

 

 

Yes pickups are important but they aren't as important when it comes to that particualr sound because the sound is heavily processed. It would be the last thing in the signal chain that I would recommend for that tone. That sound can be had with a PAF pickup or a duncan distortion or a duncan custom or even the holdsworth. The Gibson Les paul and the way you setup the boogie has more to do with that tone then the Pickup. (in this case)

 

The DF pickup doesn't have a lot to do with that particular sound

 

If you want to come into a thread and help out that is fine but you always take the negative aproach. Your first post in this thread was worded like a 14 year kid who thinks that he knows it all. Try wording things better next time and maybe someone will take you seriously.

 

Now why don't you go back to beating up women......... Seems like you have more of a knack for that instead of trying to have a decent conversation.