Members program_insect Posted August 1, 2009 Members Share Posted August 1, 2009 Hi,When I try to play different rhythms with my right and left hands, all hell breaks loose. I can play either part in isolation, but as soon as I try to play together, the rhythm from one leaks into the other and I get all messed up. It's like there's only one "master clock" in my brain. I have been able to learn some pieces that have different rh/lh rhythms, but only through brute force practice and muscle memory. I'd love to be able to improvise and have hand independence. Do you have any advice or exercises I can do to improve my hand independence? Thanks in advance Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members pogo97 Posted August 1, 2009 Members Share Posted August 1, 2009 I can't imagine playing two unrelated rhythms at a time. Otherwise, at some level, the two hands are playing off each other. Pretend you're playing bongos or something and don't worry about getting the notes right; once you have the rhythm happening, focus on getting the right notes. maybe? I just do it and it happens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members program_insect Posted August 1, 2009 Author Members Share Posted August 1, 2009 I just do it and it happens. Well aren't YOU just a magical fountain of god-given talent? ;-) seriously though thanks for the reply. I like the idea of ignoring notes and focusing on rhythm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Son of HuHefner Posted August 1, 2009 Members Share Posted August 1, 2009 I can't imagine playing two unrelated rhythms at a time. Otherwise, at some level, the two hands are playing off each other. Pretend you're playing bongos or something and don't worry about getting the notes right; once you have the rhythm happening, focus on getting the right notes.maybe?I just do it and it happens. wow, thats amazing insight I eat a pizza with my left hand and play arpeggios with my right I don't worry about crumb on the floor since I have a hungry kitten Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members pogo97 Posted August 1, 2009 Members Share Posted August 1, 2009 Well aren't YOU just a magical fountain of god-given talent? not at all, just age and experience Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Stabby Posted August 1, 2009 Members Share Posted August 1, 2009 I can't imagine playing two unrelated rhythms at a time. Otherwise, at some level, the two hands are playing off each other. Pretend you're playing bongos or something and don't worry about getting the notes right; once you have the rhythm happening, focus on getting the right notes.maybe?I just do it and it happens. That's the best thing to do, but it's hard to do when you're playing a nonsense melody. If you have a keyboard or rack with drumkits, I'd suggest you start drumming on those keys! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members pogo97 Posted August 2, 2009 Members Share Posted August 2, 2009 drum your fingers at all possible times drive your family bananas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members augerinn Posted August 2, 2009 Members Share Posted August 2, 2009 Post more on internet message boards. It's really improved my LH/RH independance. Well, that, and Ragtime. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members solomon8 Posted August 2, 2009 Members Share Posted August 2, 2009 Have you tried practicing just one hand until you can do it automatically, without really thinking about it. Then do the same with the right hand. After you have both hands to the point you can do them without thinking about them; then try and combine both. You have to, of course, at some level be thinking of what you are playing, but with enough practice it can become so automatic that the action is actually executed by the brain stem instead of the long way through the whole brain. It is a short cut the body uses when something is repeated so many times that the action becomes second nature. It does take lots and lots of practice and patience. Hope this helps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members program_insect Posted August 2, 2009 Author Members Share Posted August 2, 2009 Thanks, that does help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members KJI Posted August 2, 2009 Members Share Posted August 2, 2009 Have you tried practicing just one hand until you can do it automatically, without really thinking about it. Then do the same with the right hand. After you have both hands to the point you can do them without thinking about them; then try and combine both. You have to, of course, at some level be thinking of what you are playing, but with enough practice it can become so automatic that the action is actually executed by the brain stem instead of the long way through the whole brain. It is a short cut the body uses when something is repeated so many times that the action becomes second nature. It does take lots and lots of practice and patience. Hope this helps. Well, I'm not sure if this is such a good idea. In my experience, practicing something only one hand never really works, as no matter how much I think I have things implanted into my brain, things fall apart when I bring the other hand into the equation. I dunno, maybe it COULD work, with a whole lot of practice, but... My piano teacher used to make me hit rhythms with my hands for a new piece I was learning. Instead of pressing any keys, I would just be tapping rhythms of the notes with the piano closed, so that my hands/arms would be used to the rhythm before I get carried away with actually pressing the right notes. Maybe something like this would work? You know, I guess in essence this is similar advice to what others have given, i.e. pretend you're playing the bongos. Not trying to completely dispute the separate hand practice technique, but I get the feeling that working to get BOTH hands correlated would help more. Start slowly with both hands, then bring the speed up? I dunno, it's not like I can play 1% of what I strive to Anyways, hope this helps! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members moondad Posted August 2, 2009 Members Share Posted August 2, 2009 Independent practice is definitely worthwhile, as the attention afforded to each part can really enhance the interpretation and allow you to communicate each one more effectively. However, you shouldn't expect it all to just 'happen' when it comes to putting them together. With difficult passages, you must expect to have to put in hours of practice, both separately and together. Never underestimate the effectiveness of practising slowly - it is said that Liszt used to practise difficult passages at 1/8th tempo and work up from there. Also, beware trying to learn too much in one go - try working on very small sections. If you're trying to play something with a continuous, repetitive LH like Boogie Woogie - you really have to be prepared to pratise that LH until you can happily play it with your eyes shut, and even holding a conversation. You should then still expect the introduction of the RH to {censored} it all up again. You've just gotta keep going at it - for muscle memory to really take hold, you have to keep doing it for as long as it takes; I've heard it said that it takes about 11 days before the neural pathways become fixed enough for muscle memory to become reliable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Purity_Control Posted August 2, 2009 Members Share Posted August 2, 2009 Find a common denominator for both hands and count that in your head. Besides that, just keep at it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Son of HuHefner Posted August 2, 2009 Members Share Posted August 2, 2009 Independent practice is definitely worthwhile, as the attention afforded to each part can really enhance the interpretation and allow you to communicate each one more effectively. However, you shouldn't expect it all to just 'happen' when it comes to putting them together. With difficult passages, you must expect to have to put in hours of practice, both separately and together.Never underestimate the effectiveness of practising slowly - it is said that Liszt used to practise difficult passages at 1/8th tempo and work up from there. Also, beware trying to learn too much in one go - try working on very small sections. If you're trying to play something with a continuous, repetitive LH like Boogie Woogie - you really have to be prepared to pratise that LH until you can happily play it with your eyes shut, and even holding a conversation. You should then still expect the introduction of the RH to {censored} it all up again. You've just gotta keep going at it - for muscle memory to really take hold, you have to keep doing it for as long as it takes; I've heard it said that it takes about 11 days before the neural pathways become fixed enough for muscle memory to become reliable. I agree 100% with that For complex left hand parts, I have to drill it, repeat it like crazy for a week or 2. My LH is simply weaker than my right hand. But once I develop the strength , my LH is solid. After that repitition, I have to then slowly, slowly, slowly, work in the RH part Its takes a lot of patience. Some are much better at LH/RH independance than I am. I suspect they developed it at an early age. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members program_insect Posted August 3, 2009 Author Members Share Posted August 3, 2009 well thanks for the advice you guys. moondad, what you are saying makes sense, but does this mean that I'll never be able to improvise complex rhythms without practicing them in excruciating detail first? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Stabby Posted August 3, 2009 Members Share Posted August 3, 2009 well thanks for the advice you guys. moondad, what you are saying makes sense, but does this mean that I'll never be able to improvise complex rhythms without practicing them in excruciating detail first? Off course not. You need to understand how bass lines work first. Most of the improvising will be done with the right hand though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members willi Posted August 3, 2009 Members Share Posted August 3, 2009 Sit on your left hand until it's numb. It's like someone else is playing the line! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members willi Posted August 3, 2009 Members Share Posted August 3, 2009 That, and close your eyes. Listen and focus. Practice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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