I'm Getting an i7 DAW Computer (With a New Audio Interface) - Tips & Help Welcome

[TropicThink]

:arg:

 

Okay, so I've decided that it's time to retire my vintage P4 3.2 Ghz and go for something that might aid in the restoration of my mental

health.

 

I've played with but ultimately chucked some grandiose plans of building a computer free studio, and have now decided to, ahem, pretty much do the opposite (don't worry, the synths aren't going anywhere). I now want to get a nasty quadcore and load it with a bunch of virtual toys.

 

After some research, it seems the obvious thing to go for is an Intel Core i7. Stuff like performance and stability is important, but so is budget, and therefore an eight core Mac is obviously out of the question for this particular struggling artist right now. Besides, all the research I've done suggests that an i7 system will be absolutely marvellous, even compared to the big Macs - if configured right. So after a can of coffee and some fairly, um, enthusiastic googling (I hope their servers are ok...), I've come up with a shopping list. However, I know that there are people here whose knowledge of computers and DAW set-ups far surpasses not only mine but probably that of anyone I know in the real world, and so I turn to you for a little help. Seriously, until a few days ago I wasn't even 100% sure what an "i7" actually was, so any pointers at all is really appreciated.

 

Anyway, here's the stuff I've put in my shopping basked at the local and excellent online computer stuff peddler:

 

Case: Cooler Master Cosmos 1000 Big Tower (comes with power supply)

Motherboard: Gigabyte GA-EX58-UD5

Processor: Intel Core i7-920

RAM: 6 BG Corsair Dominator GHX+ DDR3 1600 Mhz

CPU cooler: Cooler Master V8

RAM cooler: Corsair Dominator Airflow Fan

Hard Drive: Samsung Spinpoint F1

Graphics card: Gainward GeForce 9400GT 1GB PhysX CUDA

DVD+RW burner: Sony NEC Optiarc AD-7200S

Hard drive fan: Nexus 120 mm Real Silent Fan

 

 

 

Applications: This will be my studio PC, and will not be used for anything but music production. No internet, games, or anything like that. I will most probably be using it with Reaper, because the price is right (no, actually, the price is a joke), and because it gets very favourable reviews (even though it still has some way to go MIDI wise). Until now I've been using an old version of Cubase, and I really feel it's time to move on. I'll also be using a few soft synths and other plug in stuff. I might get the East West Complete Composer Collection sample library thing which seems quite impressive, but is also a very mean resource hog. I'm not crazy about most of the analog modelling soft synths, but I use a few of those too. I don't have a lot of processing hardware, and much of it is from a certain German company whose name must not be mentioned, so expect to see fairly heavy use of effects plug ins and all that jazz. I'll be using my new ESI M8U XL MIDI interface to connect to my dearly beloved synths. There are more than twenty of them, so I might get an additional interface of the same model (it says you can run two of these things smoothly) when I can affort it.With regards to which audio interface I should go for, I hope to get some help on that here....

 

 

Operating System: I THINK I have a copy of XP Pro lying around, so I'll be installing that and using it until I feel it's time to go for Windows 7. That solution is easier on the wallet right now, and I also think it might be wise to hold out a little as usual and let the eager volunteers be the guinea pigs for the new OS. That was my strategy with Vista, and I pat myself on the back regularly for that one. When I do place an order for Windows 7 a few months down the road, I'll add an additional 6 GB of RAM and another hard drive for the OS (6GB by itself is obviously overkill with XP, so that'll do for now).

 

Processor: Ideally, I'd get the i7 950 instead of the 920, but at twice the price I'm really not sure it's worth it all things considering. You basically pay a whole lot more for a seemingly minor increase in power. I also looked at the i7 800 series (namely the 860 - again, the slightly more powerful 870 seems overpriced in comparison) but it seems the 900 series MIGHT be better for my needs due to the Trippel Channel Memory Controller - the 860 only has double channel memory control. As far as I can understand, the Trippel Channel Memory control will be convenient when handling a vulgar amount of sample library stuff.

 

Motherboard: From what I've read so far, the motherboard manufacturer to go for here is Gigabyte. The one I've picked here looks very good.

 

Case: I've picked this case since it got good reviews, looks nice, comes with a power supply unit (and Cooler Master make good power supply units), and seems pretty quiet. They've also slashed the price by 50%, but only if I order it this weekend, it seems. It has no dedicated fan for the hard drive, hence the additional hard drive fan in the list above. I got the V8 CPU cooler and also the dedicated RAM cooler after reading the review of one user who claimed the cooling of the cabinet was good, but not spectacular. Here's a review of the case which tipped the scales in favor of this one and not the one I was originally looking at:

 

Graphics card: I picked a cheap one. Like I said, this computer is going to used as a DAW, not a Nintendo. I might even get a cheaper one if someone tells me that this particular one, which is 1GB, demands more processing power than the model below, which is 512mb (it could be other way around for all I know, I'm certainly not the expert here). Bottom line: If it's quiet and cheap, then it's probably good, right? Right?

 

 

I also want a new audio interface while I'm at it. I have mixers and an empty wallet, so I'm not going to splurge on a big thing with lots of ins and outs right now. Most importanly, I want low latency. I want something that will not give me the sudden SNAP-CRACKLE-FZIH!!! treatment when I play my softsynths at very low latencies (latency usually renders my soft synths 100% useless to me unless I'm playing pads only). Sound quality also matters, of course... I've looked at the Focusrite Saffire Pro 24, but I'd love to find something cheaper that would work equally well for me. All I ever do is record synths, so I don't know if I should pay for the nice mic preamps on the Focusrite. However, they might come in handy in the future, and I've also read that this particular audio interface is easy to instally and hassle free. I'm pretty keen on stuff like that, and much for that reason I've decided to stay well clear of a couple of other manufacturers (you know who you are! ).

 

Anyway, long post I know. However, like I said, any help will be appreciated, and I'll obviously report back here on how this project went!

 

So... any thoughts?

[brzilian]

So let me get this straight - your going to build a dedicated i7 DAW system w/ 6Gb of RAM and run a 8 year old 32bit OS on it which only sees 3Gb? Why on earth would you do that?

 

Even though I have no plans on buying it (like OS X too much), I have been using Windows 7 since the first beta, so your guinea pig comment is way off base. It is solid.

 

If I were to build my own system (I gave up on that a long time ago and just buy Macs now), it would at least make sure its hackintosh-able (select the right components).

 

Regardless of what you think about the cost of Apple hardware, the real value is running OS X. Reaper runs on both Windows and OS X and like I said earlier, my 3 years experience with OS X makes me wonder why I put up with Windows for 16 years since first using Win3.1

[TropicThink]

 

If I were to build my own system (I gave up on that a long time ago and just buy Macs now), it would at least make sure its hackintosh-able (select the right components). Regardless of what you think about the cost of Apple hardware, the real value is running OS X. Reaper runs on both Windows and OS X and like I said earlier, my 3 years experience with OS X makes me wonder why I put up with Windows for 16 years since first using Win3.1

 

 

Interesting, but there would have to be some seriously bad flaws with Windows 7 for me to consider Mac at this point. I think I'll probably be more than fine with a good i7 system.

[Meganulon-X]

The motherboard you've selected kicks a multitude of ass. One of the nicer things about it is the Texas Instruments FireWire controller. Gigabyte the only company making a LGA1366 motherboard with on-board TI FireWire.

 

Also, that particular socket will be getting a 32nm 6-core CPU sometime in the first half of next year (code-named Gulftown) - something that the Lynnfield-type Core i7 series won't.

 

Some reading

[Markyboard]

Looks pretty good to me. I built mine back in March with similar (but different) components. I would rconsider using a passive cooled graphics cards http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814125258. The fan cooled cards are noisy. The graohics card may be the noisiest component in the system. I also went with a Silverstone case which I think is super quiet. Also built one for my wife a couple of months ago using a Cooler Master HAF 932. Great case but definitely noisier - fine for non-studio folks.

[mister natural]

I recently did a new build using the AMD Phenom II 940 black - you'll be very happy with Q-core for your DAW. You're also correct with the Giga MoBoard - excellent choice there. I use a 10k rpm C:drive (VelociRaptor) and will never go back to s-l-o-w Windows start-up

 

If I had to do again, the only change I'd make is a dead-quiet case; I kinda cheaped-out on that (ThemalTake) and wish I hadn't . . .

[P321]

 

:Case: Cooler Master Cosmos 1000 Big Tower (comes with power supply)

The power supply is one of the most important parts of your system to maintain stability. If it doesn't come with a quality power supply I'd buy the case separately and get one yourself. I don't know anything about what components CoolerMaster use in theirs, so can't comment, although it's "probably ok". All your other selections are fine..

 

I will most probably be using it with Reaper, because the price is right (no, actually, the price is a joke ), and because it gets very favourable reviews (even though it still has some way to go MIDI wise). Until now I've been using an old version of Cubase, and I really feel it's time to move on.

Nice as Reaper is, not least its multi-core plugin performance which seems to best the more established players, it's dreadfully limited in other ways. I find it completely unusable for my own purposes. If you're intending to MIDI up a lot of synths I think you're going to come to that conclusion rather rapidly yourself..

 

 

With regards to which audio interface I should go for, I hope to get some help on that here

You really need to decide how many I/O's you need and work from there. Solid drivers are also a touchy topic. Although you can get better hardware quality, Maudio's drivers are fairly trouble free on the budget end, and someone like RME's on the higher end. I'm not keen on companies like MOTU on the PC, although I'm sure some people would perhaps report good results. Your optimal cruising speed should be around 3ms latency on your proposed system anyway.. The better the drivers, the more you can tend to push below this before crackles.

 

OS - The UD5 can support 24GB. Keep in mind anything below Pro on Windows 7 64 bit only supports 16GB. So, if you ever upgrade your OS, and there comes a day when 4GB sticks are affordable, you'd want at least Windows 7 Professional..

 

As for processors, if you're really on a budget then you could consider the i5, although it's early days in terms of report about their motherboards etc. The real-world memory performance differences appear surprisingly small too. As someone mentioned, the nice thing is going i7 will allow a 6 core CPU upgrade soon, although 4 cores might well be plenty for your usage.

 

 

Graphics card: I picked a cheap one. Like I said, this computer is going to used as a DAW, not a Nintendo.

Hopefully not too cheap. Whilst all Nvidias/ATi's are, to varying degrees, Nvidia/ATi's own reference design (so they're basically all the same) the one area they can differ is in the quality of the capacitors etc. Going really low end could mean stability issues.. It's not just about the speed, but also the components.

 

 

1GB, demands more processing power than the model below, which is 512mb

1Gb will steal an extra 512MB from Windows XP. No real difference otherwise.

 

Bottom line: If it's quiet and cheap, then it's probably good, right? Right?

Quiet, yes. Cheap - not necessarily.

[P321]

 

So let me get this straight - your going to build a dedicated i7 DAW system w/ 6Gb of RAM and run a 8 year old 32bit OS on it which only sees 3Gb? Why on earth would you do that?

Uh.. Maybe because he knows audio plugins will run just fine on that system? - If not better currently than a 64 bit system, where they must be translated on a native 64 bit DAW. Besides which the price difference is minimal, and it keeps future options open?

 

 

Even though I have no plans on buying it (like OS X too much), I have been using Windows 7 since the first beta, so your guinea pig comment is way off base. It is solid.

Windows 7 is solid. It's the DAW's which use Windows 7 which are the problem. In the transition to 64 bit things are still a bit wobbly but, more-or-less, ok by now. Still, to me personally, Windows 7 only makes sense when you're making the 64 bit jump. Outside of large memory support, which a few heavily sample based applications might benefit from, there's not a lot of difference from XP for most audio users really..

 

 

If I were to build my own system (I gave up on that a long time ago and just buy Macs now), it would at least make sure its hackintosh-able (select the right components).

The UD5 can be made to run on the retail version of OSX with minimal changes. The biggest challenge is getting things like graphics cards to work, because most Mac users these days are using laptops, and the graphics they supply on the extremely expensive desktop versions are often outdated, in PC terms, meaning you have to use kludge fixes.

 

 

Regardless of what you think about the cost of Apple hardware, the real value is running OS X. Reaper runs on both Windows and OS X and like I said earlier, my 3 years experience with OS X makes me wonder why I put up with Windows for 16 years since first using Win3.1

Maybe if you'd had more than 3 years experience you'd understand a bit better. How many plugins older than that can you run on your current Mac? How many will be completely broken by some future Apple update? The only advantage is, because Apple computers are sold like a disposable consumer appliances - where they expect you to replace everything, including all software, every few years - they can avoid the annoyances of supporting legacy software and hardware.

 

If an Apple update breaks Pro 53 (and that'll probably happen sooner than later) then you can kiss goodbye to it on the Mac, whereas Windows 7 can still run decade old VST plugins fine.. Windows also offers vastly more selection in almost every way, including audio plugins. I regard OPX Pro as probably the best vintage analogue emulation in many regards - not available on the Mac, SQ8L - probably the best freeware emulation? - not available on the Mac. Anything older than 3 or 4 years? Not available on current Macs. Yes, you can play the same games about how Logic is OSX only etc. The point is, measured most ways, the balance really isn't in Apples favour. I'm happy you've found something you prefer, and nobody needs to validate personal preference. However that still doesn't mean there aren't things you've given up when making your selection, and (depending on what you use) that tends to be a lot more on the OSX side than the PC side, as you'd expect given one of those has a tiny share of the global market share, and comes from a company with the attitude that its products and its software are disposable, and you need to upgrade everything - often. As time goes on such attitudes will mean you'll be able to use less and less older software..

[mididoc]

Well stated P321!

[Yoozer]

 

Case: Cooler Master Cosmos 1000 Big Tower (comes with power supply)

 

Get one without, and get a Corsair 540W PSU. Stable, huge fan (so low RPM).

 

 

Hard Drive: Samsung Spinpoint F1

 

Just one of 'm? Pick 2 smaller drives, in case one drops out you'll still have your stuff left. Otherwise, invest in a good backup solution if there's not one in place already.

 

 

Graphics card: Gainward GeForce 9400GT 1GB PhysX CUDA

 

I've got a old Gigabyte 8600 - but it's passively cooled. A cheap graphics card (memory is not of the issue, generally speaking) is going to have a cheap, small fan that'll sound like a vacuum cleaner attempting to take off. All that matters to me is that it has 2 x DVI and has no issues driving 24" monitors. PhysX is for games. CUDA is not interesting for audio (yet).

 

@brzilian : today I found out, much to my dismay, that the combination Ableton 8 + Windows 7 + RME Fireface 800 is not yet ready for recording (the firewire chipset on my motherboard is fine). I've got 4 gb installed, so you could call me stupid for not using a 64-bits OS too. Live kept crashing. Even then, 64-bits is not widespread but cheaper memory simply marches on so you get the odd situation of people having 4+ gb (and who can't use PAE because the applications go retarded with it) and a 32-bits OS. Probably until 2011 or so.

 

Perhaps I'll have to actively rip my 1212m out to get the 800 to work, but oddly enough it alone performed fine (when I used the SPDIF to record, only). I'm running the final RC version (so not some vaguely torrented piece of crap).

 

Despite all its flaws, the legit XP Pro install I had performed fine with the RME and the 1212m in one box, and their driver quality is held in high esteem. I know W7's audio handling has changed, but I fear it's not for the better. It's too bad they drop the ball on that, because I really like some of the new features W7 has. As for the Hackintosh route; I should try that one day, but I'd already be delighted if they released something that's not a laptop or has a monitor built in but with 2 actual DVI outs.

[evildragon]

I'd suggest THREE hard drives!

 

One smaller (like 120 GB, if you can find) just for the OS and utilities.

One for all VSTs you're gonna use, say 500 GB (install big sample libraries first, so they load the fastest - you mentioned PLAY; if you don't have one separate hard drive just for PLAY, forget it, it won't perform well!)

One for recording data, say another 500 GB.

 

Ideally, later on buy the same hard drives again, and make a mirror RAID so your data is double safe.

 

 

As for audio interface, go with Presonus FireStudio Mobile. Everyone swears by them (yes, even against MOTU, RME and Focusrite!)

[TropicThink]

Thanks, you guys are really helpful. I've had some peeps over tonight, so I haven't had the chance to sit down and write proper replies yet, and now it's almost midnight here and I'm very tired.... I'll reply to each one of you individually tomorrow. Your contributions are MUCH appreciated!

 

BTW, hi Dragon, I was wondering when you'd get in here and share of your knowledge of this stuff... Thanks, I'll sleep on the three drives... I'm not sure about getting the EWQL stuff, though, because I frankly don't understand why that stuff has to be SO processor heavy. It just seems like very poor programming to me. I was watching this demo of one of their products, and the guy is trying to make a point that computers can play their stuff just fine, and then he plays a few notes and the CPU meter on his eight core Mac hits 70%... That's just stupid, if you ask me. Pisses me off, frankly. And what you wrote about their shenigans on their forums didn't impress me either.

 

Those libraries do sound nice though.....

 

Anyway, gotta get to bed soon, I'll be back with replies to your helpful posts tomorrow. There's been a couple of real eye openers on this thread, and as expected some helpful individuals showing up on it in usual happy KSS fashion. Glad I posted it. Looking forward to getting my new computer too.

[evildragon]

Consider VSL Special Edition bundles vs. PLAY.

[TropicThink]

I'll look into it, ED.

 

Before I go, someone posted this link on some other forum or twitter or blogosphere or geocities or whatever it was, I forget. Regarding audio glitches in Windows 7: http://blogs.msdn.com/e7/archive/2009/06/17/improving-audio-glitch-resilience-in-windows-7.aspx

[mcnova]

Something you might want to check: At one point in time it was announced by MS that you would not be able to upgrade from XP to 7; instead you would have to 1) perform a clean install or 2) upgrade to Vista first and then to 7.

 

Some time has passed since that story, and I haven't been following this, so things might be different now. I thought I would mention it, though, in case it were still true.

[TowJam]

 

Something you might want to check: At one point in time it was announced by MS that you would not be able to upgrade from XP to 7; instead you would have to 1) perform a clean install or 2) upgrade to Vista first and then to 7. Some time has passed since that story, and I haven't been following this, so things might be different now. I thought I would mention it, though, in case it were still true.

 

 

This is correct - there is no in-place upgrade path from XP to Windows 7. You'll have to flatten and rebuild.

 

Something else to keep in mind in favor of going directly to Windows 7... Starting with Vista, DAW applications can use the WaveRT mini-port driver which in my (limited) experience, pretty much addresses the latency and configuration issue that you run into with XP (using WAV or ASIO drivers). Check out this Microsoft case study about Cakewalk and how it takes advantage of the WaveRT driver.

 

Cheers!

[mcnova]

 

This is correct - there is no in-place upgrade path from XP to Windows 7. You'll have to flatten and rebuild.

 

 

Thanks for confirming that. I didn't have time to check, and I didn't want to pass on bad information.

[MartinHines]

I would suggest comparing your specs to systems built by dedicated music computer companies. If you use their online configuration tools, you can learn a great deal about the components they use and specific configurations.

 

http://www.visiondaw.com/productcart/pc/index.asp

http://www.pcaudiolabs.com/

http://www.adkproaudio.com/

[fierywater]

 

Something you might want to check: At one point in time it was announced by MS that you would not be able to upgrade from XP to 7; instead you would have to 1) perform a clean install or 2) upgrade to Vista first and then to 7. Some time has passed since that story, and I haven't been following this, so things might be different now. I thought I would mention it, though, in case it were still true.

 

 

For the record, I'd argue that it's always best to backup your data and then nuke/pave anyways. In-place upgrades never seem to work as well as they should and they often take longer than doing a clean install and restoring your data would.

[midi]

I'm in the process of upgrading to an I7 system and have decided against the Gigabyte motherboard due to some reported issues and am going with this one:

 

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813157163&Tpk=asrock%20x58%20extreme

 

The CPU i want is the 920 but its been out a year now and it's still the same price.

 

Anyone know of any upcoming Intel 4th quarter price cuts?

[evildragon]

"Some" reported issues is not the same as "many" reported issues. I have no troubles with my Gigabyte motherboard for 2 years already.

 

I assume it's nothing critical, and that it could be fixed with a flashed revision of BIOS. Gigabyte does very good stuff.

 

Just out of curiosity, what are those reported issues?

[TropicThink]

I'm in the process of upgrading to an I7 system and have decided against the Gigabyte motherboard due to some reported issues and am going with this one: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813157163&Tpk=asrock%20x58%20extreme The CPU i want is the 920 but its been out a year now and it's still the same price. Anyone know of any upcoming Intel 4th quarter price cuts?

 

Evil Dragon is correct. While there were some issues with their early X58 boards, they have been sorted out. All manufacturers seem to have issues, and Gigabyte are [among] the ones who have reportedly been able to resolve them well. Gigabyte motherboards now get superb reviews, and are used by people who make DAW's for a living. Asrock, on the other hand, is Asus' el cheapo brand. I'd seriously reconsider going with that motherboard. It's pretty hard to get Asus motherboard recommendations for an i7 DAW solution - I've even seen people report a markedly better performance after throwing out their Asus and installing a Gigabyte motherboard instead. As for Asrock, people aren't speaking very highly of it. I'd love it if you proved me wrong, though - but I'm certainly and without question picking Gigabyte over Asrock at this point, as I'm willing to bet all professional DAW builders are as well.

[TropicThink]

 

Also, that particular socket will be getting a 32nm 6-core CPU sometime in the first half of next year (code-named Gulftown) - something that the Lynnfield-type Core i7 series won't.   Some reading

[TropicThink]

Looks pretty good to me. I built mine back in March with similar (but different) components. I would rconsider using a passive cooled graphics cards http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814125258 . The fan cooled cards are noisy. The graohics card may be the noisiest component in the system. I also went with a Silverstone case which I think is super quiet. Also built one for my wife a couple of months ago using a Cooler Master HAF 932. Great case but definitely noisier - fine for non-studio folks.

 

Definitely ood tip, but the card I selected is passive, for that reason. I might still go for another graphics card, though, as I haven't done much research on them yet. It's not likely I will go for one with a fan, though.

 

I have already purchased the case. It happened to be on a 50% off RRP special this weekend, so I went for it. It's supposed to be pretty quiet, and since I was going to go with a Cooler Master power supply anyway (they get very good reviews) and this had one included, I decided to save the money. I like the case, I think it looks good, it's big and it's quiet. I think I might upgrade it with better fans, though, to optimize cooling, as I have seen other Cooler Master cases with better cooling (the one I originally was going for was a little noisier, but was also referred to as 'the fridge'.... ).

[TropicThink]

I use a 10k rpm C:drive (VelociRaptor) and will never go back to s-l-o-w Windows start-up

 

Hmmm. I'm not really enthused about the time it takes for Windows to start up either. Maybe one of those VelociRaptor drives would be a good dedicated OS drive? I did look into it for audio, but then I read that a 10000 drive vs a 7200 drive had been shown to not make much difference, so I decided against it as these drives tend to be a little noisier and are also more expensive. I'm still a little confused about this, though. I would have THOUGHT a 10000 rpm drive would make a marked difference, at least on an i7 system. After all, we know that the 5400 drives were too slow - in other words, they were being the bottlenecks on the old systems. Now we have a much, much faster system, so wouldn't the 7200 drives now be the bottlenecks?