Members shred-o-holic Posted April 12, 2006 Author Members Share Posted April 12, 2006 Originally posted by Mogwai Those of you with ESP/ Sperzels, how do you get anything bigger than a .54/.56 through the tuning peg? I heve a lot of trouble getting them in. BTW I tune to drop CIn a perfect world I would like a .10-.56 DR set, anyone know it they make them? I have Sperzels on my USA scorpion baritone....the thickest string I can get through the peg is .58.....been contemplating having it maybe bored out or getting a bass tuning head installed.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Megadeth7684 Posted April 12, 2006 Members Share Posted April 12, 2006 Originally posted by shred-o-holic Is it a flopfest with heavy strings?.....anyone who has a problem with detuning can {censored} off.......disclaimer in advance there... My Horus is 24 3/4 scale and I have it in C tuning, it works fine. Rarely ever goes out of tune, and I like the feel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members TheGZeus,OnFire Posted April 12, 2006 Members Share Posted April 12, 2006 Of you have auto-lock grovers(no modification fo fit to amny guitars) a .052 requires you to carefully pick your angle for most room through the hole, grab with a couple wraps around your finger or a pliers, and PULL!! first time I NEEDED the pliers. Not severly detuned(d standard) but it's 12s, so the pricipal appllies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members shred-o-holic Posted April 12, 2006 Author Members Share Posted April 12, 2006 Originally posted by Megadeth7684 My Horus is 24 3/4 scale and I have it in C tuning, it works fine. Rarely ever goes out of tune, and I like the feel. I'm looking to go a full step lower to Bb.....I've been looking at heavier gauges like the Elixer 12-68 or some that are 14-65.....I bet it's no big deal and would work just fine..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members shred-o-holic Posted April 12, 2006 Author Members Share Posted April 12, 2006 Originally posted by Shask I dont always think its so much a case of strings floppin' rather than the sound mushin' more, and just not having a tone as deep and clear. I don't see how a couple inches is going to mess with clarity......especiially since the pickups would be EMG's.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members TheGZeus,OnFire Posted April 12, 2006 Members Share Posted April 12, 2006 Originally posted by shred-o-holic I don't see how a couple inches is going to mess with clarity......especiially since the pickups would be EMG's.... WWW.NOVAXGUITARS.COM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Shask Posted April 12, 2006 Members Share Posted April 12, 2006 Originally posted by shred-o-holic I don't see how a couple inches is going to mess with clarity......especiially since the pickups would be EMG's.... I dont know, its weird, but thats just how the physics work Long scale gives a deeper clearer tone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members TheGZeus,OnFire Posted April 12, 2006 Members Share Posted April 12, 2006 Originally posted by Shask I dont know, its weird, but thats just how the physics work Long scale gives a deeper clearer tone. it's a relative fundamental/harmonic shift, the process of the guage choking more and more as the scale goes down.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members shred-o-holic Posted April 12, 2006 Author Members Share Posted April 12, 2006 Originally posted by TheGZeus,OnFire WWW.NOVAXGUITARS.COM Is this one of those audio studies or are you trying to say something derogatory about my hearing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members shred-o-holic Posted April 12, 2006 Author Members Share Posted April 12, 2006 Originally posted by Shask I dont know, its weird, but thats just how the physics work Long scale gives a deeper clearer tone. Bah.......I don't buy into that completely.....my 28" Agile wasn't better than my 26 1/4 schecters at all......heck we detuned my friends LP custom to B with 56's and it was fine..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members shred-o-holic Posted April 12, 2006 Author Members Share Posted April 12, 2006 Originally posted by TheGZeus,OnFire it's a relative fundamental/harmonic shift, the process of the guage choking more and more as the scale goes down.... Sounds good on paper and looks eloquent as you post it.....but I haven't heard a HUGE difference as some people make it out to be........wouldn't everyone and their cousin use baritones if that were the case? You don't see tons and tons of recording artists use baritones......you see some but not alot....and I'm refering to guys that detune of course... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members TheGZeus,OnFire Posted April 12, 2006 Members Share Posted April 12, 2006 Originally posted by shred-o-holic Bah.......I don't buy into that completely.....my 28" Agile wasn't better than my 26 1/4 schecters at all......heck we detuned my friends LP custom to B with 56's and it was fine..... Well, you're wrong... Of course it depends on amps, pickups, etc. But the strings will have a noticable change in tonality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members shred-o-holic Posted April 12, 2006 Author Members Share Posted April 12, 2006 Originally posted by TheGZeus,OnFire Well, you're wrong...Of course it depends on amps, pickups, etc.But the strings will have a noticable change in tonality. You're over-generalizing a bit.......I'm not trying to discount the whole purpose of baritones (heck I own two).....to me it seems it's more of a tension issue.......I've played numerous guitars in band mixes at A and B tunings and I can tell you the longest scale baritone I had didn't have the best overall tone.....so you're saying I'm wrong on a subjective thing is kind of silly.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members TheGZeus,OnFire Posted April 12, 2006 Members Share Posted April 12, 2006 Originally posted by shred-o-holic Sounds good on paper and looks eloquent as you post it.....but I haven't heard a HUGE difference as some people make it out to be........wouldn't everyone and their cousin use baritones if that were the case? You don't see tons and tons of recording artists use baritones......you see some but not alot....and I'm refering to guys that detune of course... Deadsy would not be as cool to me is the guitar wasn't a big atonal mess. SOme people prefer the tone, some people it's a compromise for playability's sake. The differece is there. If you can't hear it, that doesn't mean others can't. I can hear a difference in standard between 22, 24.75, 25.1 and 25.5. Ask bassists if a 30" scale ounds the same as 34, 35, 39. We'll say hell no. I prefer ~30" for standard, never go below D on a bass, and for that I prefer 34" scale.In fact if you capo to E on a 34" scale it's pretty close to 30" as I recall... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members TheGZeus,OnFire Posted April 12, 2006 Members Share Posted April 12, 2006 Originally posted by shred-o-holic You're over-generalizing a bit.......I'm not trying to discount the whole purpose of baritones (heck I own two).....to me it seems it's more of a tension issue.......I've played numerous guitars in band mixes at A and B tunings and I can tell you the longest scale baritone I had didn't have the best overall tone.....so you're saying I'm wrong on a subjective thing is kind of silly.... I didn't say best. The fact that the tonal shift is there is NOT subjective. There's a change in frequency content. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Shask Posted April 12, 2006 Members Share Posted April 12, 2006 Originally posted by shred-o-holic Sounds good on paper and looks eloquent as you post it.....but I haven't heard a HUGE difference as some people make it out to be........wouldn't everyone and their cousin use baritones if that were the case? You don't see tons and tons of recording artists use baritones......you see some but not alot....and I'm refering to guys that detune of course... I have seen a good webpage on LP vs PRS vs Strat scales. Where they had tons of frequency charts and everything else. There is a difference in the physics. Scale length has more to do with the tone than the wood. Or pickups for that matter.An excellent example, I have a 24.75" Alder Superstrat, with 18V EMG 81/85. No matter how much I tried to clear it up, it will never sound FF. It just doesnt have that deep snap to it, even though it has all the same specs minus the longer scale. Not that it sounds bad, just the deepness isnt there.Why do tons of artists use what they do? Because they could care less things are only a deal if you make one out of it. This is something that bugged me, and why I have guitars of each scale around. Some people dont care, like Mega up there that cant seem to notice any different in scale, or neck width, or thickness or anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Shask Posted April 12, 2006 Members Share Posted April 12, 2006 I will also say, going with GZeus, a 30" bass sounds weak as {censored}. I tried to get into them, because of my midget fingers, but man, awful muddy mess. So, now I have a standard 34" bass. I did have a 35" 5 string bass that sounded deep as hell, but the extra scale and width really got to me and my gimp wrist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members shred-o-holic Posted April 12, 2006 Author Members Share Posted April 12, 2006 Originally posted by TheGZeus,OnFire I didn't say best. The fact that the tonal shift is there is NOT subjective. There's a change in frequency content. Technically you are correct perhaps concerning string vibration....but sonically we all perceive things differently.....I obviously go off what works for me......and what my band mates give me feedback wise.....which they laugh at how picky I am regarding minute details.....obviously there are others here who greatly surpass me in that arena..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members shred-o-holic Posted April 12, 2006 Author Members Share Posted April 12, 2006 Originally posted by Shask I have seen a good webpage on LP vs PRS vs Strat scales. Where they had tons of frequency charts and everything else. There is a difference in the physics. Scale length has more to do with the tone than the wood. Or pickups for that matter. An excellent example, I have a 24.75" Alder Superstrat, with 18V EMG 81/85. No matter how much I tried to clear it up, it will never sound FF. It just doesnt have that deep snap to it, even though it has all the same specs minus the longer scale. Not that it sounds bad, just the deepness isnt there. Why do tons of artists use what they do? Because they could care less things are only a deal if you make one out of it. This is something that bugged me, and why I have guitars of each scale around. Some people dont care, like Mega up there that cant seem to notice any different in scale, or neck width, or thickness or anything. Well you have some of the same tastes I have and use the same types of electronics, wood, etc so of course your opinion has merit. I'm always after a good wood mass first, then pickups (emg's are all I use they are my ticket for what I do) I guess I could just try the damn heavy guitar myself and just return it if it doesn't pan out......which is what I should do instead of babbling about it here......but what fun is that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Shask Posted April 12, 2006 Members Share Posted April 12, 2006 Originally posted by shred-o-holic Well you have some of the same tastes I have and use the same types of electronics, wood, etc so of course your opinion has merit. I'm always after a good wood mass first, then pickups (emg's are all I use they are my ticket for what I do) I guess I could just try the damn heavy guitar myself and just return it if it doesn't pan out......which is what I should do instead of babbling about it here......but what fun is that? It just depends on what kind of sound you want out of that guitar. I have my Agile 25" PRS copy in drop B, and it comes out sounding very Mudvayne, Kittie, Soil (Who use Vipers in B BTW). Just that thicker heavy sound. Where, my Ibanez in B standard sounds more Unearth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members TheGZeus,OnFire Posted April 12, 2006 Members Share Posted April 12, 2006 Originally posted by Shask I will also say, going with GZeus, a 30" bass sounds weak as {censored}. I tried to get into them, because of my midget fingers, but man, awful muddy mess. So, now I have a standard 34" bass.I did have a 35" 5 string bass that sounded deep as hell, but the extra scale and width really got to me and my gimp wrist. I like the fwump that the 30" scale offers. There's more growl and clarity on 34 and such, but I don't really care about clarity.Well I do, but more about the fundamental and highs. I like wooly midrange. I tend to go for alot of mids on my choice of basses and use 15s solo when I can. BRRRoooooo!!!! Hell I play over the fingerboard with my fingers.Dub toe gives me a hard on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members shred-o-holic Posted April 12, 2006 Author Members Share Posted April 12, 2006 Originally posted by Shask It just depends on what kind of sound you want out of that guitar. I have my Agile 25" PRS copy in drop B, and it comes out sounding very Mudvayne, Kittie, Soil (Who use Vipers in B BTW). Just that thicker heavy sound. Where, my Ibanez in B standard sounds more Unearth. One thing that is frustrating for me personally is these companies like ESP, Schecter....their inconsistency in production concerning wood these days. You get quite a varience in the solidness of the same model. I would pickup a VB-400 baritone....but the last couple I have played seemed too light and not as solid as one particular model I tried last year. I tried a 400-nt last week that was just a joke.....such a feather weight balsa wood feel. I ran into a regular Viper that is massively heavy and weighed double than some of the same model as well........thats usually what I look for......it's not like I can call Musician's Friend and request them to send me the heaviest VB-400 they have.....they won't do that...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Hulston Prickle Posted April 12, 2006 Members Share Posted April 12, 2006 I have to set my action fairly high on my SG even with 10s in standard tuning. I recently switched to 11s and it's a little better, but I still think fret buzz is one of my biggest problems. I know Tony Iommi uses 10s on his SGs and tunes to Eb and C#; I don't know how he gets away with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members shred-o-holic Posted April 12, 2006 Author Members Share Posted April 12, 2006 Originally posted by Hulston Prickle I have to set my action fairly high on my SG even with 10s in standard tuning. I recently switched to 11s and it's a little better, but I still think fret buzz is one of my biggest problems. I know Tony Iommi uses 10s on his SGs and tunes to Eb and C#; I don't know how he gets away with it. Actually he uses 8's sometimes! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members cauberallies Posted April 12, 2006 Members Share Posted April 12, 2006 I use GHS Boomers 10s and tune to Bb on my Jem. Its perfect for me. From playing downtuned for so long, I've adjusted to it, and now I prefer it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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