Paying to perform...?

[Numina]

Is this what it's coming to? Artists having to pay an event/entry fee to perform? I have a problem with this. It's one thing to perform for free in hopes of selling some CDs and/or gaining some new fans and contacts but now promotors are asking the artists that want to perform to pay the the same ticket price as the general public. Well, these guys are: http://event.electro-music.com/

 

I don't run in this circle as I've found a few of these guys to be a bit elitist but I'd have no problem supporting the event by attending or playing but I can't fathom paying out of my own pocket to perform.

 

What say you?

[Metrosonus]

hell no. isn't it on of the tenets never to pay up front?

 

you make the promoter / agent money by performing. plain and simply. whether or not he pays you is another story..

 

and i personally dont mind playing for free within a reasonable driving distance.

 

 

**edit.. ok that seems more like a convention than a show or concert. Even at trade shows you're expected to pay for your booth. So this is different IMO..

[Numina]

Metro - you may be right and I may have misunderstood... But if it's open to the public then I still have issues with this sort of thing. Maybe it's just a personal problem.

[ChristianRock]

Yeah I don't know exactly what they'll be having there, but it doesn't seem like anyone will be "performing", it's more like "let's rent this place and hang out and show one another what we're doing..."

[Metrosonus]

It's probably because they have to pay up front to lease the space and rely upon ticket / booth sales to recover their costs and profit. Usually there are a ton of clauses too about forbidding alcohol and only purchasing drinks from the bar owned by the venu.

 

In a nutshell it's standard "convention" practice. But when you compare it to fesitvals and other conventions like dragoncon that don't charge performers it seems a bit wonky, I can understand.. but then on the flip side there are several huge conventions that are about selling acts (jugglers, comedians, bands etc) to colleges to have them perform on their campus and they have to pay to be there and have a booth too.

 

But in general, i agree, it's wrong to charge a performer...

[soundwave106]

The electro music fest doesn't sound like a pay to play type of scam to me. I suppose they are thinking they are more like a low-key Winter Music Conference or something where everyone pays to network.

 

But yes, I have, of course, heard of these schemes. The most common scheme is the "ticket sales" scheme, where in order to play you've got to buy x number of tickets (which you can theoretically sell at a profit). {censored} that {censored} -- if I was a band that could profit from that sort of thing, and be a promoter as well as a musician, I want a "four wall" style contract, not some lame "ticket sales" crap.

[Cygnus64]

 

The electro music fest doesn't sound like a pay to play type of scam to me. I suppose they are thinking they are more like a low-key Winter Music Conference or something where everyone pays to network. .

 

 

Looking at the link, it seems to be a retreat of sorts. No harm charging money in this case.

[Numina]

Electro-music is most definitely NOT a scam. I just want to set the record straight that I'm not implying this is a scam or otherwise. I'm somewhat familiar with the Electro-music community and it's comprised of fine people. Only in my book the artist ought not pay if they're performing or conducting seminars, etc. I'd go so far as to pay the room and board, the travel expenses, etc. but not the entry fee on top of it (there's just something not quite right about that) and if my performance, even at a conference-like setting, is in any way promoted as "come see dorky mcfly play his ambient masterpiece" in an effort to draw in a paying public then I have issues with that. Not that this is what is going on here, but I admit that it was not 100% clear to me that this was a trade show and it behooves the promoter to go into a little more detail to clarify that in a crossposting email advertising this event.

 

The reality is that promoters for small time performers ARE going to lose money. I honestly do not know a single promoter who has made money on shows in recent years. I just think the promoter is going to have to eat the loss, but definitely not the artist.

[everlight44]

It's sad how far art appreciation has fallen in our culture.

[Numina]

Here's the email that went out. I guess I read it as it's a public festival but artists and volunteers got to pay to play in front of people. To me a retreat is more like a situation that's private and people show each other new tricks and tips and stuff... I dunno, maybe I'm being too critical. I still like the idea of what this "festival" is aiming for but I couldn't possibly think if paying the public entry fee on top of all my other expenses.

 

The electro-music festival is the world's premiere event for

experimental electronic music. Known as the "Woodstock of electronic

music," it features three full days of concerts, seminars,

demonstrations, and jam sessions. Electro-music 2010 will be held at the

Greenkill Retreat Center in Huguenot, New York, September 10 - 12,

2010. XNow in it's sixth year, we expect this to be the biggest and best

electro-music event ever!

 

The scope of this festival is very broad, covering all aspects of

electro-music: experimental electronic music, space music, circuit

bending, computer music, electro-jazz, modular synthesis, musique

concrete, improvisation, algorithmic composition, multi-media, visual

art and much more. The focus will be on participant involvement,

sharing, community development, audience education, and great music.

 

You can actively participate in electro-music 2010 by performing music

or visuals, giving a seminar, workshop, or demonstration, joining the

jam sessions, or by volunteering to help with various tasks. Please

visit the web site for instructions on how to participate:

http://event.electro-music.com/

The deadline for application is May 31.

 

Everyone who attends the festival will need to purchase tickets,

including performing artists and volunteers. We regret that we cannot

provide compensation for artists, or pay for travel expenses. We

strongly encourage full participation: plan to attend for all three days

to support your fellow artists and to contribute to the sense of

community. This makes the event more enjoyable for everyone. XHighest

priority for performance spots will go to artists who are fully

involved. Available ticket packages include food and lodging for one or

three days.

[Metrosonus]

i think more or less its about the same lol.. it's not pop culture anymore.. but the theater still exists and people still go to coffee shops and old warehouses..i dont think much has changed in 200 years.

[Gribs]

It reminds me of a technical conference. I have given invited talks at technical conferences like SPIE Optics and Photonics and still had to pay conference registration fee (or rather my company payed).

 

I am aware of folk music and acoustic guitar festivals that are similar to this electro-music thing.

[Amigo]

If I don't at least get some free booze out of the deal I wont play.... unless it's a sick showcase where someone "up there" could potentially see your set.

[djwayne]

I pay to have my music distributed with TuneCore, to many different online stores including iTunes, Rhapsody, etc.....all with the hopes of selling downloads....I sell one once in a while.

[Crawling Wind]

I went last year. It is a community celebration of electronic music organized by the same folks who have the electro-music.com web site. It was pretty incredible. What you need to realize is that most folks who attend also perform. I was one of a VERY small minority of people who did NOT perform. If all the performers got in for free, there would be no income to speak of. Everyone paid admission and everyone got to see all the performances that they could handle.

 

It's not a money making scam at all. In fact, it's quite possible that money was lost. It's not about money. NOT ABOUT MONEY. It's about community. It's about making a central location available for the musicians who only know each other via the Internet and allowing a chance to see what we all do and enjoy each other's company. It was three full days of non-stop music from 12:00 noon till 1:00 AM or later, in mostly 30 minute sets. So much music, plus workshops, lectures, demos, and amazingly friendly people, some from other continents. We were out in the woods with everything provided: Great food and fun accomodations. It was one of the better events I have ever attended, and I would really like to attend again.

 

The best part was that there were so many smart creative people there, and no-one was acting important at all. Everyone was supportive of each other. It was a truly inspiring event.

 

I would be glad to answer any questions about my experience there.

 

James Potter

Crawling Wind

[Numina]

James - thanks for shedding light on your experience.

 

You confirmed a suspicion I had - that being that those who attend are mostly the same people who perform... In other words, there isn't a market for general fans of the music to cover the costs. I can understand then the need for recouping the venue and other associated fees.

[Crawling Wind]

Yes , it's more like we were all chipping in to help with the costs. I know for a fact that the small group of organizers really do it for love of the music. It had a real retreat feeling, it was just us and what we do. It was all the more fun eating meals together, taking hikes, circuit bending, etc. Great stuff and I made some friends there that I am still in contact with.