Anyone else hardware only?

[DJ RAZZ]

Let"s clear one thing up. There is a difference between using software DAWS and effects plugins and making the whole process software based, VST"'s, loops, fake drums, and so forth. Not that certain styles get by fine that way, just not mainstream pop/rock. Even if you process the heck out of stuff you need real players. I really respect the person that does it all themselves, but it does have that solo project/home studio sound no matter how well produced; once again trance and certain electronica excluded; oh and maybe rap and movie--TV.

[ChristianRock]

 

Duuuude... Unless you have a god damned 24-channel Studer or Otari tape recorder and a mixer in the likes of a NEVE, SSL or at the very least a console which costed more than $10k when new, I am afraid you are only hallucinating if you think you are achieving "true analog tape warmth" or at least, something that is worth achieving , anyway, out of that Mackie 32x8 and the Tascam MS16. You are just in denial. You are, indeed, getting "true analog sound" out of those pieces of gear, but worthy "Analog tape warmth"? "Summing buses" in analog is a great idea. AGAIN, when you buy state of the art equipment to do so. Otherwise, stay ITB. If you are going to use the argument of "analog warmth" in recording equipment, you better have the good stuff. Your Rick Rubin argument is good enough... if you are Rick Rubin and know your {censored}. Yes, I am sure you -and anyone- can make great stuff with low-priced equipment if you know how to use them. ... But you will not get worthy "analog warmth" with cheap stuff which could be compared favorably to what you can get on a regular priced DAW + Decent interface. By the way, I want my recordings to sound good . Not to "sound analog". Good is good. No highs? No lows? No go.

 

 

Well, to each their own. Like I said earlier in the thread, it's about choices, not necessity.

 

Lots of great recordings were done that didn't need a Studer or a 250 thousand dollar mixer... look at the ton of great electronic music that was released in the 90s with ADATs and Mackies.

 

Also. Your Rick Rubin counter-argument can be taken both ways. If you don't know your {censored}, then you won't get a good sound regardless of what you use, a DAW or hardware based recording. So, I don't understand your point.

 

And I also agree that it's about sounding good, regardless of where you're coming from. And good is also relative. I don't think those mainstream productions that I hear today that are obviously ITB and limited/compressed to the max, sound any good to my ears. But obviously a lot of people like them, or else how would they be selling millions of copies. But of course, there's also good music being made with DAWs. It's more about who knows what they're doing rather than what they are using, at this point.

[Franz Schiller]

 

Duuuude... Unless you have a god damned 24-channel Studer or Otari tape recorder and a mixer in the likes of a NEVE, SSL or at the very least a console which costed more than $10k when new, I am afraid you are only hallucinating if you think you are achieving "true analog tape warmth" or at least, something that is worth achieving , anyway, out of that Mackie 32x8 and the Tascam MS16. You are just in denial. You are, indeed, getting "true analog sound" out of those pieces of gear, but worthy "Analog tape warmth"? By the way, I want my recordings to sound good . Not to "sound analog". Good is good. No highs? No lows? No go.

 

 

So, clearly, you are not somebody who likes garage rock like the Mummies, or the Fuzztones?

 

For you to say "good is good" is wildly incorrect. "Good" is in the eye of the proverbial beholder. You are not the final arbiter of what is good. Nor is anyone else.

 

Just because it doesn't sound sparkling like Fleetwood Mac, Nirvana, or some yacht-rocker like Michael McDonald...that doesn't mean it doesn't sound good. A lot of great 80's alt pop like the Pixies, early Cure, early New Order, Jesus & Mary Chain....all that stuff was clearly done on a budget, has a pretty lo-fi quality to it, and sounds great. A lot of groups today are actually emulating that sound.

 

A Tascam 388 sure sounds kinda grody, but grody ALSO "sounds good."

 

I'm just saying, you gotta keep your mind and imagination open.

[Meatball Fulton]

Good reading on analog warmth.

[Gribs]

 

Good reading on analog warmth .

 

 

I am still reading the article and am bookmarking it for reference as it is quite long (nice link BTW thanks!), but I skimmed through a few sections. The article focuses on a high level description of the physical origins of various types of distortions that are interpreted as analog warmth and discusses a bit how various plugins try to reproduce these effects. I think that the answer to question of why we prefer this "warmth" is a combination of "because we are used to it" and "because we like the sound effect of the distortions". The author of the article states this more eloquently than me, but I agree with him.

[Yoozer]

 

There was a lot of really good technical and basic scientific work done in that area that is fading from the collective living memory of the science and engineering world in general.

 

Is it still heavily patent- and copyright-encumbered or is it just "lost" (because so few people search for it) in a bunch of journals locked behind a paywall?

[Karma1]

I was a hardware only guy for a long time: 4 track cassette > 4 track mini disc > Roland VS 840 > multi Adat system. I resisted using computers for recording and eventually dragged myself, kicking and screaming, into using them. I started learning ProTools a few times and gave up in frustration with it. But I came back to it and persevered and I'm so glad I did. I can totally understand all the issues and objections people have to recording on computers, but for me the benefits so outweigh the difficulties. Although for a casual user who only records basic things occasionally I can see not going to computer. But the editing capabilities plus being able to see the waveforms on a screen are huge plus factors for me, not to mention plug-ins, ease of transferring files, etc. If using hardware only works for someone, fine. But as an ex-hardware only user, I could never go back.

[MuzikB]

Good reading on analog warmth .

 

I have this printed out and put it in one of my reference manuals.

[Gribs]

 

TIs it still heavily patent- and copyright-encumbered or is it just "lost" (because so few people search for it) in a bunch of journals locked behind a paywall?

 

 

There are many many patents, but for every patent there are many many trade secrets. Also the knowledge and experience of the people who knew how make magnetic particle dispersions and coat them correctly, covert jumbos of film into rolls and wind on reels or cassettes without having the reel drop halfway (this is also related to the mag coating process and finished coating and back side properties), make recording and read-back heads and tape decks, etc., is quite literally dying out without passing the knowledge on to the next generation.

 

Any decent university library would have the journals so the pay wall is transparent to academics there, but yeah to the average person searching the internet one would have to buy the articles.

[Darkstorm]

Is hardware synths only here.

[DJ RAZZ]

 

I'd like to be hardware only. I certainly think the results generally are better from both hardware instruments and mixing (as long as we're talking quality gear in the hands of qualified people), but I don't have the time and the money or the know how. So I use computers a lot. But it's certainly a compromise. I'm moving back to using more hardware synths, though. That certainly seems to be a step in the right direction, although for me - as I don't live in one place for very long - it's extremely impractical right now. I just don' like how software only productions sound, not when they're done by me, and not when they're done by others either.

 

 

I do know where you are coming from, it is just a stale sound that cannot be remedied. But one can mess up both gear and the sound with either hardware and software when there is lack of knowhow. I know we can sometimes stumble across something new, creative, or cool, but most of the time it worsens the project.