Members VanArnaoutov Posted February 3, 2007 Members Share Posted February 3, 2007 Hey guys, I'm recording my amp 2-track with a Shure SM57 and a Sennheiser MD421. I noticed that the MD421 overloads despite that it doesn't peak at all on my preamp. The SM57 is bearing the extremely high volumes perfectly fine but the Sennheiser isn't... is this normal? I only got the sennheiser yesterday. So how do I go about recording the high volumes ? I can't pull back the Sennheiser too far while leaving the sm57 in place because it will be out of phase with the Sm57 so how do you guys typically go about doing this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members VanArnaoutov Posted February 3, 2007 Author Members Share Posted February 3, 2007 Wow. This really sucks... How the heck can the MD421 overload on such low volumes??? I have my master at about 11 oclock on my amp and the mics about 8-10 inches from the speaker cones. Did the guy sell me a broken mic? (I got it used..) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members LowandLoudx97 Posted February 3, 2007 Members Share Posted February 3, 2007 hmmm , how loud is the amp ? that is a good amount of space between the speaker and mics...sounds like that actual diaphram is bottoming out... ive had that happen before with my 421.... try lowering the amp a bit... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members VanArnaoutov Posted February 3, 2007 Author Members Share Posted February 3, 2007 The amp is REALLY loud. The problem solved itself by lowering the volume on the amp to about 1/2 of what it was. So how would one go about close-micing an amp cab at high volumes? I've got a gain knob but what if someone was using a really old marshall that has to be extremely loud to sound right? The tone obviously changes dramatically if you pull back the microphones so what am I missing here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members smtb987 Posted February 3, 2007 Members Share Posted February 3, 2007 .... try lowering the amp a bit... agreed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members nakedzen Posted February 3, 2007 Members Share Posted February 3, 2007 Hey guys,I can't pull back the Sennheiser too far while leaving the sm57 in place because it will be out of phase with the Sm57 so how do you guys typically go about doing this? Yes you can, just make sure that the mic is twice/three times/four times/etc. as far as the 57 so that the phase matches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members VanArnaoutov Posted February 3, 2007 Author Members Share Posted February 3, 2007 Yes you can, just make sure that the mic is twice/three times/four times/etc. as far as the 57 so that the phase matches. Forgot about that. It loses a lot of the bottom end though. Thanks for the advice guys. I basically "solved" my problem but... If anyone else here has experience with micing cabs with these 2 mics please chime in how you place them, volume levels, gain, etc. etc. PS: I didn't get an owner's manual with the mic so... about the bass roll-off switch: which side is which? I mean what side increases bass and which side cuts it off? (says M on one side and S on the other) I will probably figure it out on my own but if someone could give me more info I'd greatly appreciate it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members VanArnaoutov Posted February 3, 2007 Author Members Share Posted February 3, 2007 Hrmm... Tried recording with various positions on the bass roll-off switch and havn't noticed anything significant. Is it supposed to be a dramatic difference?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members VanArnaoutov Posted February 3, 2007 Author Members Share Posted February 3, 2007 bump.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members VanArnaoutov Posted February 4, 2007 Author Members Share Posted February 4, 2007 x2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Herald of Light Posted February 4, 2007 Members Share Posted February 4, 2007 I think what you're doing is clipping the input of the preamp. Are you using pads? There's no way in hell a cranked amp isn't going to clip most preamps with a decent output mic. SM57s are pretty low output. And what do you mean when you say the preamp doesn't say it is clipping? Is this an actual mic preamp, or a computer recording interface with one built in? Hrmm... Tried recording with various positions on the bass roll-off switch and havn't noticed anything significant. Is it supposed to be a dramatic difference?? Probably because it's for reducing low frequencies, like from a vibrating stand, which are not terribly audible, if at all, and possibly not coming out of your speakers much, seeing as guitar is a midrange instrument. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members VanArnaoutov Posted February 4, 2007 Author Members Share Posted February 4, 2007 I think what you're doing is clipping the input of the preamp.Are you using pads? There's no way in hell a cranked amp isn't going to clip most preamps with a decent output mic. SM57s are pretty low output.And what do you mean when you say the preamp doesn't say it is clipping? Is this an actual mic preamp, or a computer recording interface with one built in?Probably because it's for reducing low frequencies, like from a vibrating stand, which are not terribly audible, if at all, and possibly not coming out of your speakers much, seeing as guitar is a midrange instrument. I'm using an audio-buddy 2-channel preamp going into an m-audio 2496. The audio card interface is showing everything in the green and nothing clips. The red overload indicator on the audiobuddy preamp isn't lighting up either so that's also not clipping. I'm recording with cubase and what comes out after recording is cut-off wave (shows heavy clipping/digital distortion) even though the wave is very small, intensity-wise (depending on the gain I have on the preamp). So what I'm basically trying to say is that the mic overloads before even reaching my preamp (is that possible?) since when I record, it's already "peaked" no matter what the gain on my preamp is. I'm just trying to find out if this is normal for a Sennheiser 421 or if I was sold a defective one.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members GYBE! Posted February 4, 2007 Members Share Posted February 4, 2007 I'm recording with cubase and what comes out after recording is cut-off wave (shows heavy clipping/digital distortion) even though the wave is very small, intensity-wise (depending on the gain I have on the preamp). The fact that you are getting a digitally flattened wave really leads me to believe you are having digital clipping, not the mic overloading. I just can`t imagine a mic overdriving leading to a flatened waveform. Try turning down the input section of your preamp (not the output) and rerecording at similar levels.Also, if there is a pad on the mic, engage it (its been a long time since I worked with a 421 and can`t remember too many specifics)... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Herald of Light Posted February 4, 2007 Members Share Posted February 4, 2007 It's not digital clipping, and it's not the mic. It isn't "digitally flattened." What he is describing is exactly what happens when the input of the mic pre clips. Your interface is not telling you there is clipping because the interface is not clipping. Audio Buddies are prone to overloading. You need a pad to reduce the signal level between the mic and the input, or you just need to turn down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members VanArnaoutov Posted February 4, 2007 Author Members Share Posted February 4, 2007 Damn... so the audio buddy just can't handle it? lol. I only have a gain knob and even when turned on by 1mm the signal, although extremely weak is already digitally distorted. I'll try the mic at the studio with an expensive console and compare it to other 421s, but I'm sure you're right! Can't expect much from a 100$ preamp.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Herald of Light Posted February 4, 2007 Members Share Posted February 4, 2007 It's not even necessarily the preamp's fault, although that would have been easily avoidable if they had just built pads or maybe even a low end roll off control into it, like tons of other preamps have. Then again, the DMP3 does not even have built in pads, although it does have a low end roll off. Lots of higher output mics have their own pads built in, though. Low frequencies quickly devour the headroom, and with guitar, it's not like you even want the kind you can't hear. Obviously, that didn't seem to help too much with the MD421, though. Sometimes, things are just too loud. You just about always have to use pads with drums. I'd imagine your amp could be even louder, but you don't have such a problem with it with the SM57 since it's low output to begin with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Darth Balls Posted February 4, 2007 Members Share Posted February 4, 2007 I'm using an audio-buddy 2-channel preamp going into an m-audio 2496. The audio card interface is showing everything in the green and nothing clips. The red overload indicator on the audiobuddy preamp isn't lighting up either so that's also not clipping. Well, there you go. Only two possibilities. Bad mic, or something(s) in Cubase driving the signal up too high. My 421 is only a tiny bit louder than my sm57. But you got me way curious... *googles* A loud rock band in the front rows is about 115dB. A jet engine is 140dB at 3 meters. The 421 can take 140dB You can mic a jet! LOL. Ok, maybe a quiet jet. The sm57 can take 178dB! :eek: :eek: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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