Synth Consolidation/Down-Sizing Advice

[Palaver]

Hey everyone,

 

I know this goes against every synth slut's true agenda, but I am looking at down-sizing my rig. I currently have some analog outboard processors that I want to sell. I'm doing this simply because they aren't getting used. I'd really like to get my keyboards off the preamps, and just keep everything 'in the box'.

 

My current composition rig is controlled by Ableton and consists of:

 

Kurzweil PC3x

Access Virus TI2

DSI Tetr4

 

My question:

 

Can Native Instruments' Komplete 8 and a Korg Kronos effectively replace all this?

 

After reading the specs, and listening to demos, I've concluded, "yes." However, my only major concern is the ARP situation. Do the synths in NI include nice, easy-to-edit ARPS? I'm not impressed with the Korg on this front... I also figure the synths in NI could certainly fill the gap left by the Virus. 99% of the time I only use the Virus TI2 via 'plug-in' GUI.

 

This 'newly contemplated' setup would allow me to ditch the preamps (being used with the PC3x and Tetr4) as all audio would be routed from the Kronos to the computer via USB interfacing (and the NI Komplete package is already ITB, anyway). I also don't mind working with a mouse.

 

My goal is to save space, but not compromising the quality and features of my current setup.

 

Any recommendations or advice? Perhaps, Komplete 8 Ultimate could replace my entire current rig? Or just the Kronos?

 

I would love to hear your thoughts and advice.

 

BTW: I'm not trying to start a hardware versus software war. As far as I am concerned, I have excellent conversion and monitoring... I also view the TI2 & the PC3x as software (just running independently with it's own interface and box).

 

Thanks in advance,

Phil

[MuzikB]

I say, YES.

 

NI Komplete is full of stuff. Too much stuff if you ask me but different strokes for different folks. You'll have plenty and all the ARP's you can use.

[xpander]

 

Kurzweil PC3x Access Virus TI2 DSI Tetr4

 

sounds like you've already downsized!

[Palaver]

 

sounds like you've already downsized!

 

 

Well not necessarily...

 

I want one main board as my controller. If I can't reach it, or if it's not in front of my face it, then I want it gone. Plus, within a year or so, I'll be moving back to a condo. I can't pretend to be Jordan Rudess in a 1-bedroom apartment!

 

The PC3x is my 'bread & butter.' I use it for Pianos, EPs, Strings, and the odd synth sound.

 

The Tetr4 stays because it's analog, small, and I got it for dirt cheap! I can throw that thing in a drawer if needed.

 

The Virus covers a lot of ground. I absolutely love the board, but any VA/software that can do nice leads/pads/ARPs would be suffice (hence the NI question).

 

I am referring to down-scaling/sizing in terms of space and connectivity & wiring. If anything, I am looking to upscale my palette.

 

Cheers,

Phil

[donaldcrunk]

why do you even need the kronos? would you not have more control with a dedicated midi controller for your NI setup?

[seamonkey]

Confucious say "Never put all your eggs in one basket".

[Franz Schiller]

 

Confucious say "Never put all your eggs in one basket".

 

 

Totally.

 

At the very least, keep the Kurzweil. Just in case your computer breaks.

[donaldcrunk]

 

Confucious say "Never put all your eggs in one basket".

 

 

if reliability is an issue, for live playing or otherwise, then the kronos would probably be the best call, or a combo of the two for redundancy. if the computer running the software synths is considered to not be reliable enough in the studio environment (which is all the op has mentioned so far) then one would be best served by purchasing a new, reliable computer - and a second running software backups if redundancy is needed, rather than two completely seperate work environments with programs and patches that aren't compatible with each other.

 

now, if by 'dont put all your eggs in one basket' you meant it's good to have different flavors of sound available, i wholeheartedly agree - and there are no doubt sonic differences between Kronos and Komplete - but are these differences and specializations worth the 3k it will take to add the kronos to the softsynth rig? you would essentially have two super romplers - one a nice self contained unit within a keyboard, the other already integrated into your DAW on your computer. it just seems redundant to me.

 

additionally, using the Kronos as a midi controller for Komplete would no doubt work fine - except that you'd be utilizing the control surface to control Komplete instead of Kronos. you would constantly be faced with the choice of using Kronos with control surface and Komplete without, or vice versa, or just ending up purchasing a seperate dedicated control surface for komplete.

 

i am by no means bashing the kronos, i don't think anyone should take it that way, but for the home studio user that is comfortable working with a computer and doesn't need the completely integrated system for live use or heavy deadline work... komplete + a full featured midi controller comes it at such an attractive price point and seems to have every sound ever. if i was starting out again and tolerated soft synths i would certainly purchase the product.

 

that said, kronos is an _instrument_ rather than the jangly collection of subsystems that a soft-synth setup tends to feel like, and subjective and taste-based opinions like that are by no means invalid when considering dropping this much dough.

[Palaver]

 

why do you even need the kronos? would you not have more control with a dedicated midi controller for your NI setup?

 

 

The Kronos can work independantly of everything. If I want to turn something on and play over combis/presets for fun, I can do it.

 

All of the dedicated controllers are garbage (IMO). I've owned and tested them before; when a professional one finally hits the market, I'll reconsider.

 

The only 88-key controller worth mentioning is probably the AKAI MPK88. However, at 70lbs., it's not all that of an attractive option, and it would have to be constantly tied to my laptop.

 

Cheers,

PB

[Franz Schiller]

 

Totally. At the very least, keep the Kurzweil. Just in case your computer breaks.

 

 

Oh duh, just realized you're getting a Kronos.

 

Well, if you like the sound of it, go for it man. But I would suggest living with it for at least a month to make sure you LOVE it. You never know, you might just miss the Kurz after a while.

[Palaver]

 

if reliability is an issue, for live playing or otherwise, then the kronos would probably be the best call, or a combo of the two for redundancy. if the computer running the software synths is considered to not be reliable enough in the studio environment (which is all the op has mentioned so far) then one would be best served by purchasing a new, reliable computer - and a second running software backups if redundancy is needed, rather than two completely seperate work environments with programs and patches that aren't compatible with each other. now, if by 'dont put all your eggs in one basket' you meant it's good to have different flavors of sound available, i wholeheartedly agree - and there are no doubt sonic differences between Kronos and Komplete - but are these differences and specializations worth the 3k it will take to add the kronos to the softsynth rig? you would essentially have two super romplers - one a nice self contained unit within a keyboard, the other already integrated into your DAW on your computer. it just seems redundant to me. additionally, using the Kronos as a midi controller for Komplete would no doubt work fine - except that you'd be utilizing the control surface to control Komplete instead of Kronos. you would constantly be faced with the choice of using Kronos with control surface and Komplete without, or vice versa, or just ending up purchasing a seperate dedicated control surface for komplete. i am by no means bashing the kronos, i don't think anyone should take it that way, but for the home studio user that is comfortable working with a computer and doesn't need the completely integrated system for live use or heavy deadline work... komplete + a full featured midi controller comes it at such an attractive price point and seems to have every sound ever. if i was starting out again and tolerated soft synths i would certainly purchase the product. that said, kronos is an _instrument_ rather than the jangly collection of subsystems that a soft-synth setup tends to feel like, and subjective and taste-based opinions like that are by no means invalid when considering dropping this much dough.

 

 

Thanks for the reply.

 

Before any of this happens, my decision will be based strongly on how Korg implement their Kronos plug-in controller in the DAW environment. The audio via USB is paramount for this hypothesized setup to work. Access Virus have only started getting this correct within the past year or so.

 

The Kronos really isn't that bad of an option, and it isn't over priced. Remember, it is an audio interface, too. Also, when you're racking up nice preamps, costs can get out of control in a hurry. Technically, my PC3 & Tetra into a Daking Pre IV is equally expensive. And, it also has to hit an audio interface!

 

It's always fun to ponder and review your tool kit.

 

Cheers,

Phil

[seamonkey]

 

, Perhaps, Komplete 8 Ultimate could replace my entire current rig?

 

My eggs in one basket comment was in regards to this comment.

[donaldcrunk]

 

Before any of this happens, my decision will be based strongly on how Korg implement their Kronos plug-in controller in the DAW environment. The audio via USB is paramount for this hypothesized setup to work. Access Virus have only started getting this correct within the past year or so. The Kronos really isn't that bad of an option, and it isn't over priced. Remember, it is an audio interface, too. Also, when you're racking up nice preamps, costs can get out of control in a hurry. Technically, my PC3 & Tetra into a Daking Pre IV is equally expensive. And, it also has to hit an audio interface! It's always fun to ponder and review your tool kit. Cheers, Phil

 

 

 

i assume the digital output will be stereo audio, correct? i would love to see one of these things someday with multichannel streaming audio, like mlan but working.

 

don't let me come across as a kronos hater, i love the thing and we even made a stupid little video for it. there's a lot of things that make it a great instrument. if that's what you want then go for it, but i would definitely spend some time with it before picking up komplete.

 

there's no denying that the combo of the two would produce a wall of sound as yet unheard of though. first thing i would probably do - supersaws, all patches, all combis, all notes of polyphony. power

 

 

are you going to keep at least one preamp around? you never know when you might run into a fun acoustic instrumentalist willing to lay down a track !

[Palaver]

 

i assume the digital output will be stereo audio, correct? i would love to see one of these things someday with multichannel streaming audio, like mlan but working. don't let me come across as a kronos hater, i love the thing and we even made a stupid little video for it. there's a lot of things that make it a great instrument. if that's what you want then go for it, but i would definitely spend some time with it before picking up komplete. there's no denying that the combo of the two would produce a wall of sound as yet unheard of though. first thing i would probably do - supersaws, all patches, all combis, all notes of polyphony. power are you going to keep at least one preamp around? you never know when you might run into a fun acoustic instrumentalist willing to lay down a track !

 

 

EDIT: Yes, I would imagine that any digital outputs on the Kronos would be stereo. I am really hoping the Kronos DAW plug-in can allow seperate instances of sounds so that I can create different effects chains. This could 'make-or-break' the deal for me. I really need to examine this carefully.

 

I have a Langevin DVC, which is a beautiful stereo tracking unit. I do my own vocals and track a recording partner's guitars, so those two preamps are plenty. They sound quite similar to the Dakings, but the LA-3 style in the DVC is really what makes the unit shine.

 

Eventually, I want a setup that looks like this:

 

1) Master keyboard/controller (Kronos 88)

2) ULN-2 as the interface

3) Tracking Pres/EQ/Compressor (Langevin DVC)

4) A nice outboard master-buss compressor with EQ and line driver (most likely replace my analog rack with just a small API lunch box for this purpose).

5) A nice ADC convertor, like a Burl (which will also be a beautiful way of metering and clocking the ULN-2 & Kronos). This would provide for beautiful master 'prints' and allow me to drive the tracks to compete in the current 'loudness' war.

 

The more I get into the boutique stuff, the more I appreciate instant recall and quick accessibility. Patch bays, and a wall of gear distracts... especially when you're mixing and producing your own material. I don't make a living off music, but I absolutely adore the mixing/production part as much as writing. It's a real intense and a very fun hobby for me. I've worked with engineers before, but I really just want to come home from my day job, learn more about the production process, and have fun doing my own thing. I like it that way. Hopefully, I jump back into the realm of performing, soon!

 

I really appreciate all of the comments, and keep em' coming.

 

I'm certainly happy that no one has suggested that I am missing something within my hypothesized palette(s).

 

In conclusion, we're lucky to be living in these times. There's so much beautiful gear out there. Our modern day complaints are really quite funny in the grand scheme of things.

 

Cheers,

Phil

[Meatball Fulton]

 

I am really hoping the Kronos DAW plug-in can allow seperate instances of sounds so that I can create different effects chains. This could 'make-or-break' the deal for me. I really need to examine this carefully.

 

 

From what I've read so far it's going to be just an editor VST like many mfrs offer rather than a full instrument VST (MIDI and audio) like Virus TI.

 

Did I miss something?

[Palaver]

 

From what I've read so far it's going to be just an editor VST like many mfrs offer rather than a full instrument VST (MIDI and audio) like Virus TI. Did I miss something?

 

 

One of the Kronos' selling features is the fact that it has audio over USB. It would require some sort of plugin/software in order to enable this within the DAW (as advertised). Remember, the Kronos is listed as an interface. Whether or not this is true will be seen next month.

 

What you're referring to is a software editor like for my PC3. I can select and setup stuff, but I still have to output the audio through either spdif or the analog outs.

 

Cheers,

Phil

[DJ RAZZ]

I would say Kronos 61 or 73 depending on the weighted keys need and a good software controller like the Arturia Factory. You can run both Arturia and NI there. Keep Kronos seperate. Still very powerful and vast, no pun intended.

[Meatball Fulton]

 

One of the Kronos' selling features is the fact that it has audio over USB. It would require some sort of plugin/software in order to enable this within the DAW (as advertised). Remember, the Kronos is listed as an interface. Whether or not this is true will be seen next month.

 

 

Are you saying they shipped it without USB audio drivers? Boy do I keep feeling better about buying a Motif XF :poke: