Members Dropsix Posted May 7, 2008 Members Share Posted May 7, 2008 Engl invader will kill this amp Probably do the same to his wallet aswell I was considering going a bit further and getting an invader/powerball when I was looking for a dragon.What would you say the main comparisons are between the two? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members guitarman967 Posted May 7, 2008 Members Share Posted May 7, 2008 If you're looking for a lot more gain the dragon isn't goin to do it for you unless you boost it. With my ENGL Screamer I could turn up the gain on the hi lead channel about three quarters and play a note and it would ring out for all eternity slowly blooming into harmonic feedback kinda thing. With the Dragon you could turn up the lead that much and it wouldn't ring out nearly as much and its really dry in terms of harmonic content IMO. I really had to fight to get singing sustain from it (I lost the fight). The dry gain is where all the clarity is at. If the amp is too saturated then the sound becomes a mess when the volume goes up...I can't think of too many amps that have a clearer gain structure than Framus amps.If you found the Lead channel too dry for your tastes then you just boost it. The dragon has plenty of gain BTW. As much as any amp ive ever tried really. The gain never goes past 1:00 ever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members guitarman967 Posted May 7, 2008 Members Share Posted May 7, 2008 Engl invader will kill this amp Oh yeah, you forgot IMO...Here I'll show you....The Invader is a glorious waste of money IMO.. See how easy that is? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members guitarman967 Posted May 7, 2008 Members Share Posted May 7, 2008 Clean channel I have set up to be warm clean, but could be used to play some bluesy lightly overdriven stuff as well, with apropriate pickups. Crunch is like it says for nice midgain tonez. Some people say it's JCM800-like, but I think it's a little darker, still similiar though. Has a nice bite to it Lead.. I use it to play metal, but I could be happier. It surely gets heavy, and it's not really loose, but something doesn't feel right. Not punchy/agressive enough. Dunno if that makes any sense, cause it DOES get heavy But it might be my tubes.. I've had it for around 6-9 months or so and the previous owner said the tubes were 1 or 1.5 years old and I play at least 4 times a week. Plus I don't think I've got the right preamp tubes.. JJ's are known to sound good in bright heads, but not so good in darker heads.. So I'm really considering a retube. For leads I use the lead channel too, nice smooth leads. Oh yeah and about the boosting: My TS9 broke a few weeks ago and I've been changing around settings a lot since then, but from what I remember the Crunch channel was really nice boosted got close to the Lead channel tones, but a lot 'cleaner' if that makes any sense. The lead channel boosted really reminded me of the KSE - The end of heartache tones/Rose of Sharyn Hope that helps ! Dude get rid of those JJ's first and foremost..They are known for making most amps sound DULL!The Dragon has plenty of punch but you are right about your assumption of changing tubes sooner than a full year's time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members guitarman967 Posted May 7, 2008 Members Share Posted May 7, 2008 If you're not gonna be playin it loud most I'd advise against it cos it can be kinda fizzy. If this was the case I don't think you EQ'd it right. Fizz really shouldnt be an issue at all. Where did you have your CH volume set BTW? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Dropsix Posted May 7, 2008 Members Share Posted May 7, 2008 If this was the case I don't think you EQ'd it right. Fizz really shouldnt be an issue at all. Where did you have your CH volume set BTW?I had my channel vol at the recommended "at least 3 o clock" position.Seriously, I play with my amps and I try every eq possible and it just wasnt for me. It didn't seem punchy enough for me and when I tried to add cutting frequencies it made it fizzy so I had to try and find a compromise but I couldn't.Edit:Meant 3 o clock not 9 that I put before Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Brick Posted May 7, 2008 Author Members Share Posted May 7, 2008 I'm not looking for alot more gain. Just, I kinda wanted to stay with the Marshall-esque sound, but just something different than an actual marshall, if that makes any sense Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Uberscha11 Posted May 7, 2008 Members Share Posted May 7, 2008 we have a used dragon at work and it's pretty damn cool, the crunch channel {censored}ing rules, cleans are amazing for a high gain amp, doesnt seem built too solid and the lead channel sounds like poo imo, too dark, but 2 solid kickass channels, i think they are a little overpriced especially because they dont come with a footswitch (?!), but if you can find one for 1375 buy it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Faust2016 Posted May 7, 2008 Members Share Posted May 7, 2008 we have a used dragon at work and it's pretty damn cool, the crunch channel {censored}ing rules, cleans are amazing for a high gain amp, doesnt seem built too solid and the lead channel sounds like poo imo, too dark, but 2 solid kickass channels, i think they are a little overpriced especially because they dont come with a footswitch (?!), but if you can find one for 1375 buy itIn my experience raising the channel volume really brightens it up Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members paulojcduarte Posted May 7, 2008 Members Share Posted May 7, 2008 I'm saving up to buy one, unfortunately not at that price, they cost around 2600$ here, the other option was the Engl Powerball. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members PurityS.L.G. Posted May 7, 2008 Members Share Posted May 7, 2008 I've owned two of these babies before and this one is staying with me I like the Dragon a little more than the Cobra for the fact that it has a much more usable crunch channel. The Cobra is just a flat out metal machine while the Dragon can get you those Marshall mid gain tones when you want to switch things up.Like already mentioned above, you can boost the crunch channel and STILL get some great heavy tones for metal. I'm not a huge fan of the lead channel unboosted. I think that is the major downfall to this amp. I tend to like amps that are great right out of the box (no boost, no GEQ) but this amp is an exception with the lead tone. I guess it's because when you boost the lead channel it gets pretty insane and VERY close to the Cobra. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members EvilMeow Posted May 7, 2008 Members Share Posted May 7, 2008 I owned the first one on HC (picked up head AND cab on ebay for $810 plus shipping. Nobody knew what the hell it was. I was taking a risk). I miss that amp. I wish I hadn't sold it. It's got tons of gain, and a very liquid lead channel. Chewy is a good word to describe it, but it's tight enough for Thrash, which is what I used it for, along with various blues rock gigs (the second channel sounded great for that stuff). Basically it kicks ass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Dropsix Posted May 7, 2008 Members Share Posted May 7, 2008 I owned the first one on HC (picked up head AND cab on ebay for $810 plus shipping. Nobody knew what the hell it was. I was taking a risk). I miss that amp. I wish I hadn't sold it. It's got tons of gain, and a very liquid lead channel. Chewy is a good word to describe it, but it's tight enough for Thrash, which is what I used it for, along with various blues rock gigs (the second channel sounded great for that stuff). Basically it kicks ass. You know what. Reading these descriptions, I'm beginning to think I had a totally different amp to everyone else The lead channel was FAR from liquid (probably the dryest amp I ever played, you can hear it in the clips) for me. I found it grainy and dry unless I cranked the gain which only solved the problem a little. There wasn't enough saturation for it to be liquidy for me.Also I'd never say that this amp has TONS of gain compared to all the amps I've owned I found the dragon to have the LEAST amount of gain. Compared to my ENGL Screamer the Dragon was like an OD pedal. If the Dragon has tonnes of gain then my ENGL has the amount of gain equivalent to the weight of a one mile squared brick of dark matter.I'm also wondering why, if it kicks so much ass nearly everyone on this forum has sold/is selling their Dragon at some point (myself included) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members PurityS.L.G. Posted May 7, 2008 Members Share Posted May 7, 2008 I'm also wondering why, if it kicks so much ass nearly everyone on this forum has sold/is selling their Dragon at some point (myself included) I sold mine to fund for another amp I wanted to try (5150 III).I think a lot of people on here who sell their amps do it to fund for newly acquired GAS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Dropsix Posted May 7, 2008 Members Share Posted May 7, 2008 I sold mine to fund for another amp I wanted to try (5150 III).I think a lot of people on here who sell their amps do it to fund for newly acquired GAS. Maybe so but I still feel like the amp I see described on this forum is nowhere near what I was playing through. Mehh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Faust2016 Posted May 7, 2008 Members Share Posted May 7, 2008 Maybe so but I still feel like the amp I see described on this forum is nowhere near what I was playing through. Mehh. maybe you had a different version? maybe the tubes were due for changing? maybe it didn't like your pickups? I know for a fact that I totally didn't like the one I played in a guitar store. Was a V5. I have a V1....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members guitarman967 Posted May 7, 2008 Members Share Posted May 7, 2008 I had my channel vol at the recommended "at least 3 o clock" position. Seriously, I play with my amps and I try every eq possible and it just wasnt for me. It didn't seem punchy enough for me and when I tried to add cutting frequencies it made it fizzy so I had to try and find a compromise but I couldn't. Edit:Meant 3 o clock not 9 that I put before Haha, yeah the 9:00 through me off.. At any rate man, unfortunately the older Dragon's are alot better than the Newer one's. I had a new one and sold it quick.. Oh well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members EvilMeow Posted May 7, 2008 Members Share Posted May 7, 2008 I'm also wondering why, if it kicks so much ass nearly everyone on this forum has sold/is selling their Dragon at some point (myself included) What?! This is HCAF! I've owned amazing amps and sold tons of them for no good reason! Again, this is HCAF! Also, maybe the older dragons were different. I have no clue. I bought mine from a guy who had an endorsement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members guitarman967 Posted May 7, 2008 Members Share Posted May 7, 2008 maybe you had a different version? maybe the tubes were due for changing? maybe it didn't like your pickups? I know for a fact that I totally didn't like the one I played in a guitar store. Was a V5. I have a V1....... Yeah Dude, it's too bad Framus ruined that {censored}ing amp IMO. The V1,V2 and V3 all kick major ass but the V5 to me is so damn average.. It's like Cobra-lite. Definitely not its own signature sound like the older one's.The Fizz factor is more of an issue and the low's sound muddy in comparison to the old one's. Shame.Believe me though, Framus got an ear-full when they tried to re-up with some dealers I know at the newer pricing..They need to go back to hand wiring them and upgrade the tolex among other things if they want to justify that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members guitarman967 Posted May 7, 2008 Members Share Posted May 7, 2008 I do have to say after reading this post that the Dragon is in a different league from ENGL's IMO. It's like comparing it to a toy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Brick Posted May 7, 2008 Author Members Share Posted May 7, 2008 So I'll definitley want an older one then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Dropsix Posted May 7, 2008 Members Share Posted May 7, 2008 I had a version one just for clarification. I tried retubing, different cabs, guitars etc, it just didn't work for me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members PurityS.L.G. Posted May 7, 2008 Members Share Posted May 7, 2008 I do have to say after reading this post that the Dragon is in a different league from ENGL's IMO. It's like comparing it to a toy. That's a bold statement. :poke: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Dropsix Posted May 7, 2008 Members Share Posted May 7, 2008 That's a bold statement. :poke: Indeed O_oI just didn't have the balls to say it to him Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Uncle_Milton Posted May 7, 2008 Members Share Posted May 7, 2008 I do have to say after reading this post that the Dragon is in a different league from ENGL's IMO. It's like comparing it to a toy. judging by your sig shouldn't you know? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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