Members Phade21 Posted February 23, 2009 Members Share Posted February 23, 2009 How does the Fish Preamp compare to the XTC amps? Are they essentially a little more vintage sounding on the high gain channels, yet pretty similar? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members mcr23 Posted February 23, 2009 Members Share Posted February 23, 2009 wonders if anyone on here has ever tried one Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members SwedeZ Posted February 23, 2009 Members Share Posted February 23, 2009 I have always heard the fish preamp closely follows the sound of the 100B XTC minus all the switches, etc. I have a 100B but Ive never had a fish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members TornadoOfSouls Posted February 23, 2009 Members Share Posted February 23, 2009 The XTC is as close as you can get to the Fish but not exactly the same. The shark channel of the fish mostly resembles and Uberschall without all the gain. The cleans are kind of similar, I think the Fish is a little nicer because it feels less "colored" than the XTC does. The fish sounds a lot nicer when you're adding effects and pedals to it, IMO. The Strato and Brown channel have a similar voicing of the XTC red channel but the XTC sounds a little bit too 3D. That said, I would definitely use an XTC as a back-up or gigging head for my Fish but the ability to use a power amp like a VHT 2150/2100/2902/2502 makes the Fish superior. Bogner is a god amongst men when it comes to building amps but Fryette's power amps will dominate for a long time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Phade21 Posted February 23, 2009 Author Members Share Posted February 23, 2009 The XTC is as close as you can get to the Fish but not exactly the same.The shark channel of the fish mostly resembles and Uberschall without all the gain.The cleans are kind of similar, I think the Fish is a little nicer because it feels less "colored" than the XTC does. The fish sounds a lot nicer when you're adding effects and pedals to it, IMO.The Strato and Brown channel have a similar voicing of the XTC red channel but the XTC sounds a little bit too 3D.That said, I would definitely use an XTC as a back-up or gigging head for my Fish but the ability to use a power amp like a VHT 2150/2100/2902/2502 makes the Fish superior.Bogner is a god amongst men when it comes to building amps but Fryette's power amps will dominate for a long time. Nice username!Is it really possible to sound too 3D? I love my 101b...I've yet to play an amp that can compare to it. I was thinking of buying a Fish and running it with my XTC's power amp. I was also considering a Soldano Avenger, but not sure if I'm big into the sharp high end on Soldano's anymore... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members TornadoOfSouls Posted February 23, 2009 Members Share Posted February 23, 2009 Nice username!Is it really possible to sound too 3D? I love my 101b...I've yet to play an amp that can compare to it. I was thinking of buying a Fish and running it with my XTC's power amp. I was also considering a Soldano Avenger, but not sure if I'm big into the sharp high end on Soldano's anymore... I think so, but I didn't mean it in a negative way. When comparing the them both, the XTC is a lot more 3Dish than the Fish. If you want to run a Fish into the XTC's power section, then I wouldn't recommend it. If you were to pair it with another power amp like a VHT 2150 or a 2100 then you'd truly love it a lot more than you would the XTC especially on recording. A few of the channels really shine with the right power amp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Phade21 Posted February 23, 2009 Author Members Share Posted February 23, 2009 I think so, but I didn't mean it in a negative way.When comparing the them both, the XTC is a lot more 3Dish than the Fish.If you want to run a Fish into the XTC's power section, then I wouldn't recommend it.If you were to pair it with another power amp like a VHT 2150 or a 2100 then you'd truly love it a lot more than you would the XTC especially on recording.A few of the channels really shine with the right power amp. Well, if I picked up a Fish, I'd probably run into the XTC power amp till I could afford a VHT. I can't really imagine loving it more than what I have though - different, but not better. Do you find the Fish Preamp capable of more of a high-mid bite vs. the XTC? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members blastastick Posted February 23, 2009 Members Share Posted February 23, 2009 The Fish was handwired and limited. Alice in Chains tone. All the other Bogners are production except the very early Bogners. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members TornadoOfSouls Posted February 23, 2009 Members Share Posted February 23, 2009 Well, if I picked up a Fish, I'd probably run into the XTC power amp till I could afford a VHT. I can't really imagine loving it more than what I have though - different, but not better. Do you find the Fish Preamp capable of more of a high-mid bite vs. the XTC? I think the XTC has a little bit more sparkly highs and the Fish is a little bit more middy to my ears. I don't think you'll be too amazed or crazy about running a Fish into the XTC power section either, but if you live near NYC you're welcome to hear my rig. If you're a mid-range/highs kind of guy, you may love the 3+ SE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Phade21 Posted February 23, 2009 Author Members Share Posted February 23, 2009 The Fish was handwired and limited. Alice in Chains tone. All the other Bogners are production except the very early Bogners. Yes yes of course...AIC tone! The only reason why I really am considering it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members TornadoOfSouls Posted February 23, 2009 Members Share Posted February 23, 2009 Yes yes of course...AIC tone! The only reason why I really am considering it... You'll need a Mesa power amp for that! And yes, the Fish pulls off AiC much better. Cantrell is using the Uberschall nowadays because the Shark channel is voiced similarly. I don't think he's using an XTC, though I could be wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Phade21 Posted February 23, 2009 Author Members Share Posted February 23, 2009 I think the XTC has a little bit more sparkly highs and the Fish is a little bit more middy to my ears.I don't think you'll be too amazed or crazy about running a Fish into the XTC power section either, but if you live near NYC you're welcome to hear my rig.If you're a mid-range/highs kind of guy, you may love the 3+ SE. I'm not really a mid-range high guy, but am looking for something that will compliment my 101b for recording. I used to own an SLO, but damn does that thing get bright between 1-4 on the master and need to be cranked to get a tone on the level of the 101b, IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Phade21 Posted February 23, 2009 Author Members Share Posted February 23, 2009 You'll need a Mesa power amp for that!And yes, the Fish pulls off AiC much better.Cantrell is using the Uberschall nowadays because the Shark channel is voiced similarly.I don't think he's using an XTC, though I could be wrong. From the latest studio pics and videos on his site he's using an XTC Classic, Bogner Shiva, Marshall VM and the Fish Preamp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members TornadoOfSouls Posted February 23, 2009 Members Share Posted February 23, 2009 I'm not really a mid-range high guy, but am looking for something that will compliment my 101b for recording. I used to own an SLO, but damn does that thing get bright between 1-4 on the master and need to be cranked to get a tone on the level of the 101b, IMO. Yeah, the 3+ SE ranks very close to the Soldano as far as highs go, so forget about that one. A Fish and an XTC may be a really {censored}ing great mix though, I haven't even thought of that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members blastastick Posted February 23, 2009 Members Share Posted February 23, 2009 I like the Fish better. I mentioned AIC because they are probably the most famous recorded user of the Preamp. I prefer my modded Engl's preamps to both. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members starsnuffer Posted February 23, 2009 Members Share Posted February 23, 2009 I owned a Fish and a 101B. I honestly thought the Fish was sterile in comparison (I was running it with a VHT 2/50/2). The XTC was more open and definitely more 3d sounding. Notes bloomed much better on the XTC. Honestly I think 1/3 of the XTC mojo is in the poweramp. Without it you sort of loose the point of the whole thing. -W Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members TornadoOfSouls Posted February 23, 2009 Members Share Posted February 23, 2009 From the latest studio pics and videos on his site he's using an XTC Classic, Bogner Shiva, Marshall VM and the Fish Preamp. Not surprised on the Shiva, that thing gets some killer AiC tones. Last pictures I saw he had an Uberschall, I guess maybe he likes the Brown channel a little more. I'd assume if Jerry keeps a Fish AND an XTC, there's probably a reason for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Phade21 Posted February 23, 2009 Author Members Share Posted February 23, 2009 Yeah, the 3+ SE ranks very close to the Soldano as far as highs go, so forget about that one.A Fish and an XTC may be a really {censored}ing great mix though, I haven't even thought of that. Yeah, I'd imagine it would be sick.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members SwedeZ Posted February 23, 2009 Members Share Posted February 23, 2009 id just like a bogner 100A to come my way if anyone reads this thread and wants to sell a 100A let me know!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members TornadoOfSouls Posted February 23, 2009 Members Share Posted February 23, 2009 I owned a Fish and a 101B. I honestly thought the Fish was sterile in comparison (I was running it with a VHT 2/50/2). The XTC was more open and definitely more 3d sounding. Notes bloomed much better on the XTC.Honestly I think 1/3 of the XTC mojo is in the poweramp. Without it you sort of loose the point of the whole thing.-W Yep. The Fish is almost an "uncolored" version of the XTC. A lot of people prefer the XTC over the Fish but like I said if you're in the NYC area and you want to hear it paired with a VHT, you're more than welcome to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Phade21 Posted February 23, 2009 Author Members Share Posted February 23, 2009 Yep.The Fish is almost an "uncolored" version of the XTC.A lot of people prefer the XTC over the Fish but like I said if you're in the NYC area and you want to hear it paired with a VHT, you're more than welcome to. I might be in NYC sometime over the next few months and would definately take you up on that if I made it there (I live in Buffalo)....Do you have any clips you could send me? There's one for sale that I was looking at and might not have much time to pull the trigger on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members TornadoOfSouls Posted February 23, 2009 Members Share Posted February 23, 2009 I might be in NYC sometime over the next few months and would definately take you up on that if I made it there (I live in Buffalo)....Do you have any clips you could send me? There's one for sale that I was looking at and might not have much time to pull the trigger on it. I don't, I should be getting the reissue in, in the next week or two. My older Fish was given to me as a present by my guitar teacher and I wound up selling it a little while ago. I want it back real badly though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Phade21 Posted February 23, 2009 Author Members Share Posted February 23, 2009 I owned a Fish and a 101B. I honestly thought the Fish was sterile in comparison (I was running it with a VHT 2/50/2). The XTC was more open and definitely more 3d sounding. Notes bloomed much better on the XTC.Honestly I think 1/3 of the XTC mojo is in the poweramp. Without it you sort of loose the point of the whole thing.-W Yeah, from talking to Bogner I found that the Fish gets it sound/gain overwhelmingly from the preamp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members TornadoOfSouls Posted February 23, 2009 Members Share Posted February 23, 2009 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MRFRvPjNau0&fmt=18 Recent demo of the new reissue Fish which according to Chris Poland sounds even better than the original. Sadly youtube won't do it justice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members starsnuffer Posted February 23, 2009 Members Share Posted February 23, 2009 Yeah, from talking to Bogner I found that the Fish gets it sound/gain overwhelmingly from the preamp. Well that would make sense since the fish is just a preamp I think that the good poweramps, like VHT and even mesa to a lesser degree are just such solid and overengineered poweramps that they're not designed to really color the tone. They're designed to provide clear reproductions of whatever is sent into them. When a designer designs an entire amp, they can tweak the poweramp to fit in with what they intended the amp to sound like. In the case of the XTC, there is a good bit of sag built into the poweramp. There isn't a VHT amp built that has any sag what so ever. That's where the bloom and even order harmonics that people attribute to the XTC come from, the poweramp, not the preamp. Honestly, you can set the switches and knobs on the XTC any old way, and still manage to coax out whatever tone you want with your fingers and playing style from it. I couldn't do that with the Fish/VHT combo. -W Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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