Multiple Movement rock songs (Aqualung, Stairway, etc.)

[rlm297]

I'd like to discuss Multiple Movement rock songs, as I'd never considered writing one and maybe others have tried this.

 

I'm talking about the epic 7 to 20 minute, better produced radio-friendly songs that stay linear and have somewhat of a planned structure.

 

Led Zeppelin - Stairway to Heaven

Jethro Tull - Aqualung, Thick as a Brick

Beatles - Happiness is a Warm Gun

Radiohead - Paranoid Android

Mansun - Six (The album version, not the single version)

Billy Joel - Scenes From an Italian Restaurant

Paul McCartney - Band on the Run (The song itself.)

 

If I'm missing any, let me know..

 

While prog rock likely does this a lot, I'm more interested in "commercial examples" that hinge solely on songwriting chops opposed to off-the-cuff, lengthy freestyle improvization.

 

How does one approach a song of that magnitude? Is it all about recording piecemeal, juxtapozing parts, and then finding out the best way to "pull it back in"? How can this be best done to sound natural and not come off forced or pretentious?

[David Sertl]

Heyho rlm297,

 

I think such songs can come together in a lot of different ways. For once you could try to especially plan out a song, so choose a topic, what sections it should have, what you want to express with and so forth; a blueprint that you then fill with music. That approach works fine for me, but what I find sometimes difficult here is when I have the feeling that I have to write something in. That can sometimes become a blockade.

Other than that you could just start writing little sections whenever you're inspired, little pieces. Steve Vai has written a series of articles, I think theyre "Martian Love Secrets" or something. There he said that it is a good exercise to try to write music for one emotion or situation or whatever you've been in/know/whatever. If you do that every now and then you end up with a big bunch of music and then you can just experiment piecing them together.

And what I would lastly think of, is if you're lucky to just be inspired to write a whole song, that it just falls into your lap.

 

For example Stairway to heaven was written as this huge opus on purpose; I've read interviews with page where he states that he had this kind of vision for a huge, dynamic song. Scenes From an Italian Restaurant (awesome song btw), was first the intro section, where Billy then would just other stuff he had and would slowly piece it together. There is a greatest hits out there with a recorded FAQ session he had, where he spoke especially how he created that song. On the other Hand Bohemian Rhapsody as far as I remember just fell in place.

 

I hope that answer helps you in one or another way

[Li Shenron]

I think it's best to focus here on the epic rocker, like 6-10 minutes long, because progressive suites (e.g. Pink Floyd, Yes, King Crimson) are another thing.

 

In my opinion one possible key for writing some of them is the "story arc".

 

Think of for instance three phases: beginning situation + dramatic event + finale.

 

The lyrics probably also tell these, but perhaps it's not even necessary, one of the 3 parts may not even have lyrics, but the music does somehow changes twice. This doesn't mean that you need 3 melodies, you may even have only 1 and then create the change in another way. Often the finale is a reprise of the beginning theme (see Stairway to Heaven).

 

You can probably find several epic songs with a similar story arc in a 3-section structure. IIRC, Stairway to Heaven has the acoustic first part, then the rock section, and the final reprise. Bohemian Rhapsody has a first mellow-rock part, the crazy vocals middle section, and rocker finale (although then there is perhaps a fourth section with a short reprise). Elton John's Funeral for a Friend has a first synth-based instrumental part, the main rock part, and then it has a crescendo instrumental finale (although that contains also a reprise of the vocal theme).

 

As you can see, there's nothing written in stone and lots of possible variations, but at least there is some sort of evolution of the song which goes from one movement to the next. This is different from the pop-rock song which alternates between verses/choruses, and adds a solo/bridge but essentially remains one section only.

 

Two more point to notice:

 

a) In the epic rocker there is very usually no distinction between verse and chorus. Check the above examples Stairway, Bohemian and Funeral... it's not that you can clearly say where is the boundary between verse and chorus.

 

b) Be patient, in the sense that the song should not be anxious to move forward. The pop song wants to end the verse and quickly move to a chorus. The epic rocker song takes its time, perhaps it has to tell the story fully, so it doesn't bother if it takes 3 whole minutes before getting to the climax part/second section.

[hurtchow]

Hey, check out my song 'inawake' it's got that thing you're talking about..

 

http://www.myspace.com/bettergangway

 

I kept it under 4 minutes, though.

 

Lots of megadeth's stuff on peace sells and rust in peace is like this. It's not necessarily EPIC songwriting, just not repetitive.

[Matximus]

Oh yeah - Stairway to Heavan no doubt.

 

Multiple movement if there ever was one. At first it just stinks. Then it gets crappier. By the end it's total {censored}e.

 

Seriously - I hate that song. Same with that other MasterPieces of Turd Bohemian Rhapsody.

[blue2blue]

the epic 7 to 20 minute, better produced radio-friendly songs

 

That would be what the mathematicians used to call a null set. I guess nowadays it goes by the name empty set, but, you know...

 

There may well be plenty of 7 to 20 minutes songs that are radio-slick -- but by the definitions in the industry, I think you'd have to say that that kind of length moves you firmly out of radio-friendly territory.

 

[stevieb]

"I Need A Lover (That Won't Drive Me Crazy)" John Melencamp

[blue2blue]

5'36" of John Mellencamp might seem like seven to twenty minutes...

 

 

 

J/K... I like the guy; he seems like a regular guy and I always had a soft spot for him ever since he threw off the absurd "New Bowie" personna the morons at the label/mgmt cooked up for him. Johnny Cougar, indeed.

[hurtchow]

I wonder if some people think "American Pie" is one of these...

 

It's about an hour long of just verse/chorus/verse... god i wish that song was never written.

 

I love bohemian rhapsody! hahaha I can understand your hatred though. I hate lots of things.

[blue2blue]

I wonder if some people think "American Pie" is one of these... It's about an hour long of just verse/chorus/verse... god i wish that song was never written. I love bohemian rhapsody! hahaha I can understand your hatred though. I hate lots of things.

 

Is it only an hour?!?

 

It feels like it goes on for weeks...

 

 

 

Funny thing is, the first couple times I heard it, I was enthralled. I loved the way-too-tricked out lyrics with all the contrived "mystery" surrounding the presumed identities of all the characters.

 

In fact me and two buddies actually bought the album as a trio, since none of us wanted to actually spend the jack ourselves. After a few listens, we sort of drew straws to see who would have to keep the album. Me and the other guy who had tape recorders (reel, of course) didn't even bother taping it. (Not out of scruples, mind you. )

 

I'll have to seek it out on Rhapsody one of these days. A decade or so ago I made a point of listening to "Stairway to Heaven" all the way through, which I hadn't done in maybe closer to two decades. (Great studio solo on that.) And one of these days maybe I'll even bring myself to listen to "Hotel California" again. Now that is, I think, a really well written (and amazingly glossily produced) song. Mind you, I'm still sick of it and haven't probably heard more than a snip in passing in maybe 20 years. One of these days.

 

 

One of my favorite long form works is "Echoes" off the Pink Floyd Meddle album. I think it's something like 18 minutes. And, though I've heard it scores, maybe hundreds of times, I never get sick of it. In fact, by the time it's over, I've almost forgotten the beginning.

 

It may be somewhat ironic, given my penchant for short pop songs, but I'm also a big fan of jazz and classical music. Having recently seen both Beethoven's huge 9th Sympony as well as his only slightly more compact 3rd ("Eroica"), and having seen both Carmina Burana and Mahler's 5th in the last couple years, my ass is still sore...