Members J.L.C. Posted May 30, 2009 Members Share Posted May 30, 2009 I'm about to re-tube the pre-amp of a mrak IV and wondering what others think of getting a matched tube for the phase inverter. Does it make any difference in this circuit? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members madryan Posted May 30, 2009 Members Share Posted May 30, 2009 I'm about to re-tube the pre-amp of a mrak IV and wondering what others think of getting a matched tube for the phase inverter.Does it make any difference in this circuit? The short answer is no. However, I'd score a nice NOS JAN Phillips 12AT7 were I you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members solarburn Posted May 30, 2009 Members Share Posted May 30, 2009 I'm about to re-tube the pre-amp of a mrak IV and wondering what others think of getting a matched tube for the phase inverter.Does it make any difference in this circuit? You match your socks don't you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members J.L.C. Posted May 30, 2009 Author Members Share Posted May 30, 2009 The short answer is no. However, I'd score a nice NOS JAN Phillips 12AT7 were I you. I'm looking at some JAN-Philips 5751s and probably a couple of Tungsols Interwebz research is pointing to the the upcharge for a balanced tube being a waste of money! You think the the 12AT7 would be a good call for V5? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members the_bleeding Posted May 30, 2009 Members Share Posted May 30, 2009 at7 will lose a lot of volume compared to an ax7. Personally i'd go sovtek 12ax7lps - theyre meant for PI's - or tungsol 12ax7, or as a last resourt a jan5751 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members solarburn Posted May 30, 2009 Members Share Posted May 30, 2009 at7 will lose a lot of volume compared to an ax7. Personally i'd go sovtek 12ax7lps - theyre meant for PI's - or tungsol 12ax7, or as a last resourt a jan5751 I second the LPS for the PI slot. I like the Mullard CV4024 AT7 or the JP AT7 over the 5751's. In my amps the AT7 as long as it was just one mixed with AX7's, didn't hurt volume as you would think it to. Surprised me. The 5751 in my guitar amps just didn't do anything audibly better one way or another. I'd rather have a 12Ax7 or an AT7 in there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members madryan Posted May 30, 2009 Members Share Posted May 30, 2009 12AT7's do in fact have less gain than 12AX7's, but that's when used in the tonestack. Also, they sound thin and weak IMO. 5751's are stellar tubes in the tonestack, but the PI spot is totally different. 12AT7 are lower gain but they push more current. Running a 12AT7 in the PI will typically result in more touch sensitivity and better overall feel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members J.L.C. Posted May 30, 2009 Author Members Share Posted May 30, 2009 It's probably good to mention that I don't play metal or anything approaching teh brootz The guy at thetubestore suggested the Tungsols and JP 5751s; I'm a tube noob and have just been using the mesa 12AX7s after a brief stint with some JJs that just didn't sound good. Volume isn't an issue, I already have way more than I need. But right now there is some harshness in the highs I wouldn't mind taming along with some weird, almost tremolo-sounding, stuff happening especially on the g string (with 3 different guitars). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members solarburn Posted May 30, 2009 Members Share Posted May 30, 2009 12AT7's do in fact have less gain than 12AX7's, but that's when used in the tonestack. Also, they sound thin and weak IMO. 5751's are stellar tubes in the tonestack, but the PI spot is totally different.12AT7 are lower gain but they push more current. Running a 12AT7 in the PI will typically result in more touch sensitivity and better overall feel. I didn't like the 5751 any where on both my amps. I should say what I had already was more to my liking. I hear lots of players report liking the 5751's. Most were recommending the PI slot though. I actually liked the AT7 in V1 on the Marshall but you have to understand I like taming the gain a little for articulation and feel. I didn't notice it thinning out to where I didn't like it. Its maybe not as fat sounding yet I still had all the sustain I needed. I have to qualify I favor lower gains for the stuff I play. I like to man handle my strings so a 12Ax7 can become too gainy or noisy for me at times I don't want it to. I like a mix especially for guitar roll off to clean. Its a trade off and it depends on what kind of stuff I'm playing. Jerry from FJA thought it pretty strange I had an AT7 in V1 and let me know a lot of guys will put it the PI slot. I prefer the LPS in the PI though. Now I've since moved the AT7 into the Night Train and I like the feel of it there. I'm using it for blues mostly. You roll tubes in that amp and it really reveals their characteristics. I got the Marshall where I want it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members BluesMan60 Posted May 30, 2009 Members Share Posted May 30, 2009 at7 will lose a lot of volume compared to an ax7. Not true. PI circuits don't use more than a gain of 20, so any tube with a gain higher than that doesn't produce more gain, just different tone. Trust your ears. Mike K KCA NOS Tubes www.kcanostubes.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members BluesMan60 Posted May 30, 2009 Members Share Posted May 30, 2009 12AT7's do in fact have less gain than 12AX7's, but that's when used in the tonestack. Also, they sound thin and weak IMO. Most do, the Mullard CV4024 is the exception. Mike K KCA NOS Tubes www.kcanostubes.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members guitarded_1 Posted May 30, 2009 Members Share Posted May 30, 2009 Most do, the Mullard CV4024 is the exception. Mike K KCA NOS Tubes www.kcanostubes.com Great tube. My "secret weapon" of choice in the PI slot of most amps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members J.L.C. Posted May 30, 2009 Author Members Share Posted May 30, 2009 I didn't like the 5751 any where on both my amps. I should say what I had already was more to my liking. I hear lots of players report liking the 5751's. Most were recommending the PI slot though.I actually liked the AT7 in V1 on the Marshall but you have to understand I like taming the gain a little for articulation and feel. I didn't notice it thinning out to where I didn't like it. Its maybe not as fat sounding yet I still had all the sustain I needed.I have to qualify I favor lower gains for the stuff I play. I like to man handle my strings so a 12Ax7 can become too gainy or noisy for me at times I don't want it to. I like a mix especially for guitar roll off to clean. Its a trade off and it depends on what kind of stuff I'm playing.Jerry from FJA thought it pretty strange I had an AT7 in V1 and let me know a lot of guys will put it the PI slot. I prefer the LPS in the PI though. Now I've since moved the AT7 into the Night Train and I like the feel of it there. I'm using it for blues mostly. You roll tubes in that amp and it really reveals their characteristics. I got the Marshall where I want it. Is there enough of a difference between a mesa and marshall circuits that some tubes work better in one than the other? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members J.L.C. Posted May 30, 2009 Author Members Share Posted May 30, 2009 So I'm thinking: V1 - Jan-Philips 5751 ($12)V2 - Jan-Philips 5751 ($12)V3 - Tungsol 12AX7 ($15)V4 - Tungsol 12AX7 ($15)V5 - Mullard CV4024 ($30) Any opinions on that combo? Am I making any stupid decisions there (like spending 2X more on the PI tube)? Anything I should order along with them for some swappage and experimenting? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members 11justin22 Posted May 30, 2009 Members Share Posted May 30, 2009 So I'm thinking:V1 - Jan-Philips 5751 ($12)V2 - Jan-Philips 5751 ($12)V3 - Tungsol 12AX7 ($15)V4 - Tungsol 12AX7 ($15)V5 - Mullard CV4024 ($30)Any opinions on that combo? Am I making any stupid decisions there (like spending 2X more on the PI tube)? Anything I should order along with them for some swappage and experimenting? not sure about the mark series, but on my stiletto i can't put anything russian (tungsol) in v3 or v4 because they are cathode follower. They do light up like pretty little christmas trees though:thu: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members J.L.C. Posted May 30, 2009 Author Members Share Posted May 30, 2009 not sure about the mark series, but on my stiletto i can't put anything russian (tungsol) in v3 or v4 because they are cathode follower. They do light up like pretty little christmas trees though:thu: This seems like some important info! Man, I'm really clueless about this stuff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members 11justin22 Posted May 30, 2009 Members Share Posted May 30, 2009 This seems like some important info! Man, I'm really clueless about this stuff I don't know a lot, just what I have read and found through trial and error. It has to do with the voltage rating, the tubes that new sensor makes, which are tungsol, mullard, sovtek, and a couple others i can't think of, can't handle the voltage in these slots. They can only handle like a 100 volts or millivolts(whatever their measured in) and the cathode follower puts out way more than that. So........ they light up like christmas trees Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members J.L.C. Posted May 30, 2009 Author Members Share Posted May 30, 2009 I don't know a lot, just what I have read and found through trial and error. It has to do with the voltage rating, the tubes that new sensor makes, which are tungsol, mullard, sovtek, and a couple others i can't think of, can't handle the voltage in these slots. They can only handle like a 100 volts or millivolts(whatever their measured in) and the cathode follower puts out way more than that. So........ they light up like christmas trees Any suggestions as to what does work well in those slots? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members 11justin22 Posted May 30, 2009 Members Share Posted May 30, 2009 jj or shuguang all the only one's I know of that will handle the voltage, check around a little bit to make sure if you have a cathode follower stage. I would assume you do as most mesa's do. Also some amps have that stage as v2, and I am not sure about the mark so.I also think alot of nos tubes will work but I don't qoute me on that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members madryan Posted May 30, 2009 Members Share Posted May 30, 2009 Any suggestions as to what does work well in those slots? My favorite tubes these days for filling out everything but V1 and the PI is the Shuguang 8th and 9th gen chinese tubes. They're just a great sounding rugged tube. I've quit using anything New Sensor puts out. I had a couple of Tung Sol reissues {censored} the bed in less than a year so no more of those. You don't need the Mullard 12AT7 in the PI. Any nice Jan Phillips or similar NOS tube will work and they're typically $15 or so. In my mesa DC-5 I run a 5751 in V1, a JJ in V2, Shuguangs in V3-V5, and a Jan Phillips 12AT7 in V6 (PI) In my orange I'm running a similar mix... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members J.L.C. Posted May 30, 2009 Author Members Share Posted May 30, 2009 jj or shuguang all the only one's I know of that will handle the voltage, check around a little bit to make sure if you have a cathode follower stage. I would assume you do as most mesa's do. Also some amps have that stage as v2, and I am not sure about the mark so.I also think alot of nos tubes will work but I don't qoute me on that. I'm not sure how to find the cathode follower stage. The tube assignments in the manual are as follows: V1A = Input StageV1B = Tone Recovery Stage (Post tone controls)V2A = Third Gain Stage (Rhythm modes) and Fifth Lead Gain StageV2B = FX Return StageV3A = First Lead High Gain StageV3B = Reverb ReturnV4A = Second Lead High Gain StageV4B = Reverb SendV5 = Phase Inverter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members madryan Posted May 30, 2009 Members Share Posted May 30, 2009 I'm not sure how to find the cathode follower stage. The tube assignments in the manual are as follows:V1A = Input StageV1B = Tone Recovery Stage (Post tone controls)V2A = Third Gain Stage (Rhythm modes) and Fifth Lead Gain StageV2B = FX Return StageV3A = First Lead High Gain StageV3B = Reverb ReturnV4A = Second Lead High Gain StageV4B = Reverb SendV5 = Phase Inverter It depends on which amp you're using. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members charveldan Posted May 30, 2009 Members Share Posted May 30, 2009 It's not gonna matter that much, just throw all Blackburn Mullard or Amprex in there and be done with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members solarburn Posted May 31, 2009 Members Share Posted May 31, 2009 I'm not sure how to find the cathode follower stage. The tube assignments in the manual are as follows:V1A = Input StageV1B = Tone Recovery Stage (Post tone controls)V2A = Third Gain Stage (Rhythm modes) and Fifth Lead Gain StageV2B = FX Return StageV3A = First Lead High Gain StageV3B = Reverb ReturnV4A = Second Lead High Gain StageV4B = Reverb SendV5 = Phase Inverter You need to know where the cathode follower is so you can avoid certain tubes that won't handle the current there. Find that out. I like AC5's which are in the same family as the Chinese 9th generation. These would work well. You could just get some NOS and have no worries for cathode follower stages. They can handle the current. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members solarburn Posted May 31, 2009 Members Share Posted May 31, 2009 It's not gonna matter that much, just throw all Blackburn Mullard or Amprex in there and be done with it. Shoosh! Thats more people buying them and less for us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.