1st song from new project

[Ides of March]

www.reverbnation.com/scarlettlocks

 

A new project/band I started for all original music. 1 song has been recorded so far, and I have 8 or 9 more to record. But this is gonna be my main thing for a while. Any comments welcome!

[blue2blue]

Howdy! I see this is the first time you've posted a song here (or at least the first time in a couple years).

 

I don't know if your song is finished (although I see it's for sale so I'm thinking that's a yes ), but the time to get feedback, it seems to me, is before a song is done, so you can make use of the feedback. (Also, in order to cut down on self-promo spam, this forum has had to institute a rule relegating finished songs -- and even blatant self-promo -- to the monthly Showcase Threads.)

 

Anyhow, with that out of the way (I'm the mod in this forum so I have to do some of this pro forma stuff), and the understanding that you now know the drill here, I'll go ahead and give my quick thoughts on "Blissful Dream."

 

I found the lyrics on the RN page. They're enigmatic, to be sure. But I get the drift, even through the shifts between second person and third person address -- which is not the deal-breaker for me that it is for some folks, but, for sure, I found the shift between "her" and "you" to be confusing and I'm still not sure if there are two people in the song or three.

 

Honestly, going through the lyrics, I felt like they'd been chosen more for sound than meaning. And, clearly, in pop music, that's an approach that's often been used -- and a lot of folks are just fine with it. Still, to my way of thinking, while it's not necessarily going to sabotage a song's reception by listeners, I do sometimes feel cheated when I find myself warming up to a given song and then, peeling apart the lyrics, find that there's not as much there as I'd thought.

 

I like the song's retro-pyschedelic feel, a little like Meddle-era Pink Floyd.

[Ides of March]

Sorry Blue, I didn't know about the showcase thing.. So should I post it there instead?

 

The lyrics are just how I write, imagery and alot of imagination. I don't usually like people to have a concrete idea of what I am writing about. I like them to use their own imagination.

 

And there are two people in the story. The first part of the story the boy is addresing the girl, the second verse the girl is addressing the boy.

I understand about the "we found a crown just for you" part being confusing, its both of them together, finding a piece of their lives, in worship of each other keeping the drama down to silence. Breaks away the moon means both staying with each other inside of their garden, or place instead of one of them leaving the other for the night.

 

 

 

What did you mean by you aren't sure if it was finished?

And thanks for the critique.

[blue2blue]

Sorry Blue, I didn't know about the showcase thing.. So should I post it there instead? The lyrics are just how I write, imagery and alot of imagination. I don't usually like people to have a concrete idea of what I am writing about. I like them to use their own imagination. And there are two people in the story. What did you mean by you aren't sure if it was finished? And thanks for the critique.

First, no problem! I could merge this into the Showcase thread, but I'm inclined to leave it where it is and let folks comment with the understanding that their comments may help shape the next one. The main reason for the rule is to make sure that the forum doesn't get clogged with self-promo (because that ends up with a forum filled with single-post threads, for the most part) and so that folks don't waste a lot of time giving super-detailed, thoughtful suggestions on a song that's already finished.

 

With regard to my comment about not knowing whether or not it was finished -- that was actually written before I saw the for sale button, so that's all there was to that. I didn't mean it sounded unfinished.

 

 

And, finally, with regard to the impressionistic lyrics, I think that's an entirely valid approach. I still don't know what some of my favorite songs mean literally -- and I've been listening to them for as much as a half century or more, so, you know.

 

[i did finally pretty well suss out "Moritat" ("Mack the Knife"), though, which was the first song I remember where pulling apart the lyrics was something of a pastime for folks. My mom would have phone conversations with her pals about different aspects of the rather grim lyrics, I remember it to this day. I think at least part of the appeal was the swingin' night club feel of the song combined with the lyrics which must have seemed darkly cryptic to those unfamiliar with "Thee Penny Opera." Of course, you can go back to the college songs like "Maisey Dotes" for some really cryptic lyrics... I'd say that one -- on a little yellow kiddie 78 rpm -- was the first real lyric mystery I ever confronted. Although the back side of "When You Wish Upon a Star" (as sung by Jimminy Cricket), which was the music from the drunken hallucination sequence from Dumbo definitely had me going. I was literally scared of that record side. You know, I remember the feeling of dread I would have putting on "When You Wish..." -- just knowing that the nightmarish music (by the great Raymond Scott, IIRC) was on the other side.

[Ides of March]

First, no problem ! I could merge this into the Showcase thread, but I'm inclined to leave it where it is and let folks comment with the understanding that their comments may help shape the next one. The main reason for the rule is to make sure that the forum doesn't get clogged with self-promo (because that ends up with a forum filled with single-post threads, for the most part) and so that folks don't waste a lot of time giving super-detailed, thoughtful suggestions on a song that's already finished. With regard to my comment about not knowing whether or not it was finished -- that was actually written before I saw the for sale button, so that's all there was to that. I didn't mean it sounded unfinished. And, finally, with regard to the impressionistic lyrics, I think that's an entirely valid approach. I still don't know what some of my favorite songs mean literally -- and I've been listening to them for as much as a half century or more, so, you know. [i did finally pretty well suss out "Moritat" ("Mack the Knife"), though, which was the first song I remember where pulling apart the lyrics was something of a pastime for folks. My mom would have phone conversations with her pals about different aspects of the rather grim lyrics, I remember it to this day. I think at least part of the appeal was the swingin' night club feel of the song combined with the lyrics which must have seemed darkly cryptic to those unfamiliar with "Thee Penny Opera." Of course, you can go back to the college songs like "Maisey Dotes" for some really cryptic lyrics...

 

 

Ok understood. thanks again for the help. Next time I will work on the first, second and third person thing. To be honest sometimes when I am writing a song I jot down gibberish lyrics cause of like you said the sound goes with the melody and they fit so well I leave them in even though it may sound stupid.

[blue2blue]

Oh, no, don't get me wrong. I'm not saying not to do it... I'm just saying it confused me. Different things. Confusing the listener is not necessarily a bad thing.

 

And, while there are some that get doctrinaire about such formal/structural issues, I have no problems at all with such a 'two chracter song' switching between second person ("you") and third ("her/she")... at least as long as it doesn't just switch in the middle of a verse or line -- which probably would cross a certain line for me.

 

But I can easily see the sense in a verse addressed to someone and a chorus about that same person, or vice versa.

 

But then, again, I like half-rhymes, too.

[Ides of March]

Oh, no, don't get me wrong. I'm not saying not to do it... I'm just saying it confused me. Different things. Confusing the listener is not necessarily a bad thing. And, while there are some that get doctrinaire about such formal/structural issues, I have no problems at all with such a 'two chracter song' switching between second person ("you") and third ("her/she")... at least as long as it doesn't just switch in the middle of a verse or line -- which probably would cross a certain line for me. But I can easily see the sense in a verse addressed to someone and a chorus about that same person, or vice versa. But then, again, I like half-rhymes, too.

 

I am a poetry,fairy tale junkie to be honest. I hate love songs, I like writing in metaphors and imagery and I also love the idea of songs that have a title that isn't in the chorus. Like Blissful, the song isn't called In it for Love.... I guess sometimes I don't think of how confusing I can be to someone who is actually reading the lyrics and trying to figure out what I am saying rather than me assuming they are gonna think of something that pertains to them and their lives.

[Ides of March]

Oh, no, don't get me wrong. I'm not saying not to do it... I'm just saying it confused me. Different things. Confusing the listener is not necessarily a bad thing. And, while there are some that get doctrinaire about such formal/structural issues, I have no problems at all with such a 'two chracter song' switching between second person ("you") and third ("her/she")... at least as long as it doesn't just switch in the middle of a verse or line -- which probably would cross a certain line for me. But I can easily see the sense in a verse addressed to someone and a chorus about that same person, or vice versa. But then, again, I like half-rhymes, too.

 

Oh and could you tell me what you thought of the mix. I am getting different opinions on it. Like the vocals, solo that sort of thing.

[blue2blue]

Well... we try to not get too distracted by non-songwriting issues here -- for one thing, I think a lot of us have found it's too easy to substitute comments about the sound, performance, or mix for comments about songwriting -- since it's pretty easy to come up with a snap opinion about a mix and it can be take some real work to give thoughtful feedback on the actual songwriting...

 

But that said, and having addressed the songwriting issues (and since I used to be a studio guy, myself)...

 

I have to say that I found the overall sound to not be up to the level of the song, in general. First, it's all bunched up in the middle. There's a bit of stereo feel, but it's quite vague. Don't be afraid of stereo. It can really open things up, even if you still want to avoid the extremes. (I will say I don't much like the opposite extreme, where a drum kit, for instance, is spread from speaker to speaker. Where are the rest of the guys going to 'stand'? I don't mind some surrealism in a mix, but ultimately, I do kind of visualize things, and at the point where a mix forces me to imagine a drummer with a 12 foot reach, I'm sorta overstretched myself. )

 

One great thing about mono or a less stereo-ific kinda mix is that it will really hit home whether or not there's enough room carved out in the spectrum for the different instruments and parts. A great mix in mono is pretty much guaranteed to have a separate place in the tonal spectrum for each instrument and part. You can learn a lot about making tonal space in your mixes by working in mono, at least for practice and experimentation. By that measure, though, this mix is a bit of a mush. Stuff rises out of it, but there's not that unified punch, elements are fighting and masking each other. (I do hear that there's a bit of stereo wash on the guitars, but it doesn't do the trick for me. It's the kind of thing that has to be performed with smart precision to work. And there are some performance precision issues elsewhere, as well.)

 

Another thing is tonal balance... I'm hearing some bass here, but not the kind of each-note-solid, consistent bass sound I prefer. And I'm not hearing much high end definition at all... seems like stuff seems to start disappearing above, say, 8 or 10 kHz. Also, there's a build up of upper mid range in the mix that makes it sound a bit harsh and monochromatic.

 

And, finally, a performance issue but as long as we're here... I'm a little iffy about that solo... I see what you're going for that classic, edge-of chaos thing that emerges and coalesces into something that actually makes coherent sense once you've heard enough of it. I get that intellectually. But in terms of gut experience, I'm not really sure it necessarily works, here. For me, the solo becomes a bit of discursive 'noise' (not that noise is necessarily a bad thing, at all, mind you). It doesn't move the song forward for me; to the contrary, it sort of stops the song in its tracks -- but not for that little moment of confusion followed by a sort of mini-satori as one flashes on the order within the chaos -- but, for me, it kind of stops the song's leisurely momentum for the whole solo section. (In particular, that little 'box-run' section really doesn't work for me.)

 

Anyhow, that may well be more detail than you were really looking for -- and is probably why I like to get my licks in when the song is more in the formative stages, so my comments don't seem to be suggesting that a tear down and rebuild is necessary. (FWIW, I don't think is is necessary, but a little tinkering and remixing might make the song more inviting.)

 

 

PS... I like the vocal quite a bit (that early-mid Pink Floyd feel mentioned earlier) and the overall feel of the song itself.

[Ides of March]

Thanks Blue. I should have read the rules better for this forum. Again I am sorry.

I am not a studio mixer guy as you can tell, it was recorded using a boss br900cd 8 track digital recorder and instead of micing my stack I used to different settings for the guitar. I also had no bass so it was played on my les paul which is why the bass seems weak at times.

I try to blend it as best I can bringing this up and that up but maybe I should mic my stack and use my board next time. The solo to be honest, I liked it, and I am no Randy Rhoads by far but maybe a better thought out solo would make it more interesting.

[blue2blue]

Again, no problem!

 

I only mentioned that because I had just remembered -- after writing a thousand words or two on how I thought one might 'improve' things -- that this was actually more or less a finished song.

 

With re the solo, don't get me wrong, it's got a certain charm and I like the concept. And maybe others might like the whole package. I think it's clear you've got some interesting ideas, solo-wise, and I imagine you might come up with something on your very next try that hit me right. That said, I'm not sure I'm the guy anyone should want to target.

 

Again, welcome to the forum! (I did see that you'd participated in one of the other threads, but you know you're part of the forum when you've got the full treatment on one of your songs. )

[Ides of March]

Again, no problem! I only mentioned that because I had just remembered -- after writing a thousand words or two on how I thought one might 'improve' things -- that this was actually more or less a finished song. With re the solo, don't get me wrong, it's got a certain charm and I like the concept. And maybe others might like the whole package. I think it's clear you've got some interesting ideas, solo-wise, and I imagine you might come up with something on your very next try that hit me right. That said, I'm not sure I'm the guy anyone should want to target. Again, welcome to the forum! (I did see that you'd participated in one of the other threads, but you know you're part of the forum when you've got the full treatment on one of your songs. )

 

 

Ok thanks again Blue. It's good to hear the bad with the good.

[DavidMgT]

I am listening now (expect a fan request!) and am really enjoying the melody. It has a wide open feel with a very loose, melodic vocal melody. I like how the chorus ups the intensity just a bit while keeping to song's overall feel.

[blue2blue]

Ok thanks again Blue. It's good to hear the bad with the good.

Well, it's all judgment calls, of course; FWIW, I think there's lots more good than anything else.

[Ides of March]

Well, it's all judgment calls, of course; FWIW, I think there's lots more good than anything else. [/QU

 

Cool. At least I know the song is good. I am still trying to figure out producing and mixing. Making a good blend.

[rockinrobby]

No, don't listen to his self promos? Listen to mine? I'm a promosexual. My promos are the best, I put the "pro" in promo... And besides? I think with those eyebrows? The carpet does not match the drapes :-( With all of that said? Which was enjoyable? And quite funny?

 

You have a wicked buzz, and I don't mean you were high? You have some nasty amp/pickup sounds going on there? I'm not a fan of the EQ on the vox/or overall, the drums could be mixed much better, that snare needs some help, and the whole drum track? The mix feels mid heavy? And could benefit from some multi-band compression, limiting, etc... But hey, I don't mean to bust your stones :-) I actually enjoyed the tune a bit, till the lead guitar kicked in. I wasn't real fonda that.

 

Seriously, it could be much better with some love from a mix master. Keep on keeping on, it's like anything else, the more you do it? The better you get.

[Ides of March]

Thanks Robby. The song was recorded through a boss br900cd digital recorder, not through my stack which is something I have been considering doing rather than using the effects on the Boss. What didn't you like about the lead? Too grainy? The drums are a small kit that are mic'd live but through only one mic so that's why it's not all in the mix. I only have a ride/crash, hi hat, snare and one tom so I am still putting it together.

 

I appreciate the help, and I intend to work better on the mix. Oh the vocals are doubled with delay, my fav.

[rockinrobby]

ahhh, a drummer! :-) I use BFD2, but I write the parts/don't use loops. I don't recall what my heartburn with the guitar was, I'm lucky to remember breakfast. Which today was a sausage egg and cheese biscuit :-) Mmmmmmm.