Need some help in "opening up"

[AliveTilDawn]

I'm fairly new to songwriting and my main problem is being able to find my words. There are so many things that I try to write about but i always manage to get stuck with the typical ABA ABBA formats to which i have found to be rather limiting. im not really able to capture the true emotion of the song and the end product sounds too boring. Any tips to help me really SAY something as opposed to rhyming?

[blue2blue]

Well, no one says a song has to rhyme at all.

 

But some of the problems that I see tyro songwriters having with rhyme often involve rhyme schemes where the rhyme words come too close together. A lot of pop songs have 16 beat lines. If you use an AABB (or worse AAAA) rhyme scheme it can feel claustrophobic and forced. (Worse still if the lyric lines are shorter, 8 beat lines.)

 

Try an ABAB or ABCB (where A and C don't rhyme -- and if you ant to get tricky, you could pick up the A and/or C rhyme in a subsequent verse -- the farther apart the rhyme or the more buried in the structure, the more subtle it will tend to sound.

 

You can also try partial or glancing rhymes -- with just a hint of the rhyme, say a vowel sound but not the same consonant. Those can be irritating to some folks but if handled right, they give flow and emphasis without seeming even like obvious rhyming. Half/partial rhymes are also effective at times within lyric lines.

 

Remember that rhyme calls attention to itself. That's why an ill-chosen rhyme can hit the ear and brain as such a clinker. Even non-musicians sometimes groan when a lyric line seems chosen just for the rhyme (although some fairly sophisticated writers will play that for laughs -- but it's a bit of expectation ju jitsu that is tricky to pull off and almost depends on the listener's faith that the songwriter is actually a witty sophisticate in control of the song and just having some fun... otherwise, it's a groaner. It's kind of like when a great comic makes a really broad, silly pun... it wouldn't work if we didn't know he was actually capable of better.)

 

Of course, overly familiar rhymes (moon/June is the familiar emblem of that) also often produce groans -- even if they make sense and fit in the song. Definitely, watch out for rhymes that trap you in cliches.

[blue2blue]

ABBA was a great band IMO, how can you beat Fernando? It doesn't get any better than that.

 

 

I had to set up a keystroke macro that types out the facepalm code just to respond to your posts, Robbie! You know, you really do have meaningful insights to share at times, Robbie; I've seen you do it. Don't be afraid to actually be helpful.

[LeonardScaper]

 

Any tips to help me really SAY something as opposed to rhyming?

 

 

Just say what you are feeling.......and put it to some music. You'll find yourself settling in to a pattern after you repeat things a few times and that pattern will most likely start to generate some rhymes.

 

Or....write it down after you go through it a few times and then find ways to get rhymes in where you like them.

[RadiationNation]

 

I'm fairly new to songwriting and my main problem is being able to find my words. There are so many things that I try to write about but i always manage to get stuck with the typical ABA ABBA formats to which i have found to be rather limiting. im not really able to capture the true emotion of the song and the end product sounds too boring. Any tips to help me really SAY something as opposed to rhyming?

 

 

I would recommend you think long and hard about what you want the song to be. What's so special about this song that you have to write it? What's that one thing you're trying to express or illustrate, or that one clever, catchy phrase that you want it to be based around? Or that one title, or that one idea for a song, or whatever is unique to this song, what is it?

 

Doesn't always work, but personally I find conceptualizing early on to be really helpful creatively. Once you have the concept of the song worked out, you basically just have to work to flesh it out.

 

EDIT: Also, like blue said, experiment with rhyme structures if you're not happy with how your songs sound now. You'll find different schemes give the song a different sound. The simpler and shorter the rhyme scheme, the more lighthearted and sing-songy your songs will sound. Personally, I have a tough time following too standard of a rhyme scheme, so I'll usually find myself experimenting in different ways. Adding assonance, alliteration, internal rhyming, different rhyme patterns, etc.

[eddieboston2]

I've sometimes found it helpful to just write out what I want to say, in a non-song format, like a journal entry or a letter - sort of a stream of consciousness type of thing. As you're doing that, you will often find that certain phrases stand out as being more poetic than others, and you'll be able to use them in the song. Then you can work on the rhyme scheme, and the song will have the meaning you really want.

 

I also saw that technique mentioned in a book, I think it was Jimmy Webb's book.

[rockinrobby]

I've been writing songs for quite some time, however I can honestly say "I do not understand the process" AT ALL! I know there are many here who can go in to detail about how it works? Just not me... For me, it's more of an organic process? It just happens. I am the vessel, or as Checkoff would say, "the wessel..." Sometimes music flows from me, like urine from a homeless person on the streets of Atlanta? I can't control it, it just comes out? Other times, I can try, and nothing happens? It's like controlling orgasms? It's not always easy... Sometimes they just "cum?" You're there? You know it happened? You enjoyed it? But you didn't really have a lot of control over the experience... That's how song writing is for me. It's like an orgasm I can't control.

[RadiationNation]

 

I've been writing songs for quite some time, however I can honestly say "I do not understand the process" AT ALL! I know there are many here who can go in to detail about how it works? Just not me... For me, it's more of an organic process? It just happens. I am the vessel, or as Checkoff would say, "the wessel..." Sometimes music flows from me, like urine from a homeless person on the streets of Atlanta? I can't control it, it just comes out? Other times, I can try, and nothing happens? It's like controlling orgasms? It's not always easy... Sometimes they just "cum?" You're there? You know it happened? You enjoyed it? But you didn't really have a lot of control over the experience... That's how song writing is for me. It's like an orgasm I can't control.

 

 

Justin Bieber, is that you?

[grace_slick]

BIEBER OF SAVILLE! BAHAHAH!!!!

 

I love Bieberisms. My partner and I have begun calling our 2 cats Justin Biebies. (we always call them our "babies" so now we've put a weird accent on Bieber to make it sound more like "babies". God, we're insane)

 

Anyway, hi original poster! I feel your pain.

 

I have only JUST begun blabbermouthing my songs WITH lyrics around this forum, and I feel honestly as if the floodgates have opened and I won't go back now into my little cocoon of having no idea where to even start writing songs how I maybe want to.

 

I find I don't like restrictions. Meaning, I have a lot of song concepts I want to, and intend to, write about, but...this is already a slight restriction on me, and I find these longterm planned song ideas hardest to start actually writing about.

 

I find it easiest to write freely, like I get something in my head (a melody, vibe, feel in the actual music / instrumentals) so put it down, and then words kinda come...I get a feel and an image in my head and the words tend to suit it. So this, while the easiest way of writing for me, isn't always really useful because if I'm not overly interested in what's coming out in terms of the words, well...what's the point really, you know?

 

The above method works best if I can sort of guide myself towards a concept I want to actually say something about.

 

I don't pay TOO much attention to rhyming perfectly...it's better to get down the feeling and where you want the story to go...rhyming or twisting of words to fit exactly can distort what you're trying to say into boring territory, which as you've said, you don't want.

 

I originally assumed I'd find it easier to have the instrumental track all recorded and ready and THEN I'd think of lyrics, but no, it's not really for me now. I find this another restriction, and I feel hemmed in by my own instruments!

 

Anyway, the BIG thing is to just start. I had to start writing ANYTHING, whereas you have to start writing more freely in a way you're not necessarily used to. Forget about verses! Try writing free flowing blather and see what happens.

[Matximus]

 

Well, no one says a song has to rhyme at all. .

 

 

One better: No one says a song has to say anything at all... some of my favorite songwriters never said squat or wrote a buncha songs that never said squat. I'm talking Marc Bolan, David Bowie, Noel Gallagher, Jeff Tweedy, John Lennon, Little Richard... and on and on and on...

 

Doesn't matter what you say. What matters is finishing the song. And then what matters is if it sounds cool.

[Matximus]

Also: There is nothing that can't be said in an interesting rhyme. NOTHING.

 

Language is infinitely fluid. So you just have to practice harder. And use well-worn tools for discovering good or servicible word combinations.

 

The two easiest: Lists and a thesaurus. Writing a song about the ocean? Make a list of every word or phrase that connotates the ocean. Use the book for help. Then weave together words with rhyme potential. Tada! You have lyrics.

 

Oh yeah. And stop trying to say so much in a song. Write a book if you have a lot to say. Good songs only say one or two memorable things.

[rockinrobby]

Also: There is nothing that can't be said in an interesting rhyme. NOTHING.

 

I don't know, there's a lot of really good poetic Beatles music that rhymes nicely? Nothing maybe a bit too strong. Perhaps many things?

[grace_slick]

 

Oh yeah. And stop trying to say so much in a song. Write a book if you have a lot to say. Good songs only say one or two memorable things.

 

 

I kinda agree with this...I think this is part of my issue with having concepts planned out prior to even thinking about a potential melody, chord progressions and lyrics. I get too weighed down in the minute details of my concept and the story that I just can't even begin to work out how to say ALL of it in a short song! (or even a not so short song). Way too much information overload there!

[AliveTilDawn]

 

I kinda agree with this...I think this is part of my issue with having concepts planned out prior to even thinking about a potential melody, chord progressions and lyrics. I get too weighed down in the minute details of my concept and the story that I just can't even begin to work out how to say ALL of it in a short song! (or even a not so short song). Way too much information overload there!

 

 

I think thats where i stuck on aswell. I know what i want to say i just cannot seem to find a "starting point". I get overwhelmed with everything else and i think it's shadowing the main/basic point of the song.

 

BTW thank you all for you input...its helping me a lot.

[Matximus]

Seems like you just need to stop psyching yourself out.. get some confidence and take the long view. Saying everything you want to say is less important than just finishing the song... unfinished song says... nothing.

 

On saying one thing... Ima big fan of that method... it's old-school and certainly the way to go in my book. Outta the blues and Nashville and Tin Pan Alley.

 

I was learning "This Magic Moment" this morning... It's so simple and effective I damn near started to cry. I'd kill to be able to achieve such beauty...

 

Dudes who wrote it - master craftsmen. Wrote tons and tons of songs. Knew quite about about getting their point across. Teenager in Love... Viva Las Vegas...Lonely Avenue... ridiculous...

 

Think about every song you write like a Tombstone ... One simple message carved in stone... that's what it's all about for me.

[grace_slick]

I think that once you start, even if what you've made is absolute CRAP, at least it's SOMETHING and that's great because (1) you now have something tangible to work on (and it's a lot easier to add, alter and take away from something than nothing, to grow your song) and (2) it helps to break the ice so to speak. You've started. Your mental block has been chipped away which, if you keep going (either with that particular song or with other different ones), it keeps chipping away until it's not so hard to make new starts anymore. I've found this.

 

Also, in terms of a detailed concept for a song you have in your head, is there a specific angle you might find most interesting to sort of grasp onto and place emphasis on within the song? As opposed to trying to say the whole concept equally in a song, or tell a story from page 1-10 in order in a song.

 

Like, say your song is about a squirrel who finds a huge nut and he treasures it with his life, rolls it around everywhere he goes and plans with excitement to eat it the following day when he's hungry again. He hides it beneath his tree and goes to sleep for the night. Then he wakes up, gleefully exits his tree hole to eat his breakfast, only to find it gone. He is crushed. After some sadness and moping, he picks himself up and finds another even bigger nut. WOO! The end. lol

 

Ok, so with that rather odd but cute story, how would you start?

 

Apart from it being more interesting and maybe "song-relevant" to only focus on a particular angle of the story, it also makes it easier to write the song because it's not such a big challenge if you're only singing about one part...or one feeling in the song...

 

You could focus on the feelings of the squirrel primarily...his toiling to find the nut...his excitement, then his sadness...then his resolute motivation and optimism (out of necessity) to find a new nut...but not be quite so literal about the fact it's about a squirrel and his nut, lol.

 

Or you could BE literal and make it a cute song about the actual squirrel...

 

Or you could tell it from the point of view of the nut...being found, then being hidden and then being stolen by whoever it was in the night.

 

Or you could go from the angle of the tree, watching everything happening down below and knowing the squirrel would be ok, once it found its new and bigger nut...kinda like the tree is god watching over the world, you know?

 

I'm confusing even myself now. lol

[AliveTilDawn]

i guess going with that approach i could get at least 3 songs out of one bigger concept. each one with a different angle. never thought of it like that. i usually fixate myself with the one idea and try to run with it.

[gubu]

Brainstrorming can be a good tool. Just write down everything you think and feel about the subject of the song. This can often run to many pages but can be very helpful in giving you a solid thread to run with in constructing a narrative or in figuring out how to 'hang' the lyric from the music.

[grace_slick]

Yeah, if you write everything down, it's easier to see which parts might go better as a song, and also it's easier to notice which parts you feel most enthusiastic about...you know? Those are the bits you should be moving more towards when trying to actually more formally create the song.

[gubu]

^^^Indeed! And brainstorming like this and writing down all of your thoughts, impressions and feelings will allow you to clearly see what sort of tone/theme and lyrical approach will work well with the musical themes and motifs of the song. It can make it a much simpler process to decide what you want to say and how you will be able to say it within the construct of your song.

[tbry]

You have an idea with a story...start at the beginning of the story and write out a 2-3 page essay on the idea and the things that surround that topic. No rhymes just a story...A beginning middle and end then pick out the best parts to make it a short three minute story and start rearranging it to fit the rhymes...As I walked into the the cafe I saw the worn path in the floor from hundreds of customers over the 40 years the joint had been there. The old stools were red and torn from years of use and two old guys that looked like regulars were sipping coffee and reading the Morning Examiner. The waitress was filling one of the old guys cup with decaffe and he tried flirting with her but she just smiled and walked away. There was a booth on the right where I wanted to sit but being alone I thought i should sit at the counter with the two long timers. The sun was peering through a side window and it spread across the the corner of the counter where I sat down. The waitress walked over to the the window and pulled a shade down just far enough for me to sit comfortably and turned on the air. The day was already getting warm. I fit right in like a regular and was glad this place appeared out of thin air while I was driving old route 45.

 

I walked into the cafe

40 years the joint's been there

I fit right in like a regular

Glad this place appeared out of thin air

 

I've used this scene before to show how you can make it work...anyway try that, see if it helps, of course using your subject matter.

[AliveTilDawn]

Ive tried that approach before but never really gave it a chance. I more or less used it to really get into what i was feeling. I'd feel a certain way about a situation but never really understood exactly what made me feel the way i did. Wrote out a one page "summary" and that was it. I didn't work directly off of that summary. I'm sure it would be very beneficial to use in some cases.