First Impression

[IllinoisJack]

******REVISED - input incorporated

 

 

[LCK]

Some very clever word play. In places it's almost laugh-out-loud funny.

 

Other lines fell a little flat. Your family moved away and didn't leave you the address, is one.

 

I'm just curious, do you consider the lyrics you're posting works in progress? I ask because you're posting an awful lot of stuff, and you seem to have arrived in the middle of a bit of controversy over people's motives for posting, whether they're looking for constructive criticism or just posting finished product.

 

You're clearly a talented lyricist, but it feels like you're throwing an avalanche of finished material at us.

 

LCK

[rsadasiv]

I'm just curious, do you consider the lyrics you're posting works in progress? I ask because you're posting an awful lot of stuff, and you seem to have arrived in the middle of a bit of controversy over people's motives for posting, whether they're looking for constructive criticism or just posting finished product. You're clearly a talented lyricist, but it feels like you're throwing an avalanche of finished material at us. LCK

 

Creates a bad first impression.

[LCK]

Creates a bad first impression.

 

Well, I think it's both good and bad. But, yeah, the bad impression is starting to outweigh the pleasure of reading some of this guy's very clever wordplay. The question becomes, other than -- "wow, that's good!" -- why should we invest time in these songs?

 

LCK

[IllinoisJack]

Yeah, I read the tussle you have with that other fella. I am VERY interested in feedback. I have been a closet songwriter for a long time and I have never had a forum like this before. I'm like a kid in a candy store. I HAVE been doing the required critiquing of other writers and I hope if you read any you will think them fair and typically encouraging.

 

A very great writer once told me that to be a real writer, you have to be willing to kill your favorite pieces. I believe that. I probably have 50 songs or so that I have claimed as "keepers". I have NONE of them memorized because I am constantly changing and refining lyrics.

 

I appriciate the role that you seem to have taken on in this room. You are engaged - that's great. Fire away.

[rsadasiv]

Well, I think it's both good and bad. But, yeah, the bad impression is starting to outweigh the pleasure of reading some of this guy's very clever wordplay. The question becomes, other than -- "wow, that's good!" -- why should we invest time in these songs? LCK

 

 

I kid - see thread title.

[IllinoisJack]

revised - see text

[LCK]

 

Yeah, I read the tussle you have with that other fella. I am VERY interested in feedback.

 

 

Quick suggestion: since you seem to have incorporated someone's suggestions into your lyric, and we don't all have supercalifragilistic memories, you might want to bold the new stuff, or post the new lyric at the bottom of the thread, so we can see what changes were made.

 

Thanks for your patience in this time of fragile egos,

 

LCK

 

PS: I re-read the verse in question. It's a bit better. Not as laugh-out-loud funny as the rest, but it doesn't stand out in a bad way.

 

I find you offensive in every way

I hope that you come with a cure

If I have to spend one more minute this way

I'll run away screaming I'm sure

 

One problem is that "find you offensive" is generalized where everything else is very specific, and hilariously so. Also "this way" isn't specific either. Also, it's not very good form to rhyme a word with itself (you've rhymed way with way).

 

What I would do is start with the third line:

 

If I have to spend one more second with you

 

Then I'd rewrite the first line so it ends with an oo sound.

 

You already did the zoo thing, but something like:

 

When did they let you out of the zoo?

God, I hope you come with a cure.

If I have to spend one more second with you

I'll run away screaming, I'm sure.

[rsadasiv]

Ok, some backgound, and then I'll jump in.

 

Lots of good info in the READ BEFORE POSTING THREAD, but TL/DR and I'll summarize:

 

1) WIP only. A couple of reasons. One is that this provides a working definition for the No Promo rule. The other is that it takes a significant level of effort to provide constructive feedback, and it is demotivating to the commenter if that work is pointless.

 

2) Full arrangements are better than demos which are better than lyric/chord sheets. Again, a couple of reasons. One is that the more stuff there is to review, the easier it is to find something to comment on. The other is that criticism is inherently subjective. We are all working artists here, and everyone understands that what you, as an artist, want to achieve is not necessarily the same as what some other artist wants to achieve (or what some critic wants to appreciate). So to create feedback which is helpful to YOU, I need to have some insight into what you are trying to achieve, and again, more data is better than less data.

 

3) If you have specific concerns, ask a specific question. Even assuming (2), what I think is important is not necessarily what you think is important. If you know what you care about, put that in the OP, and that will help focus the ensuing discussion.

[rsadasiv]

Rhyme scheme is regular and cliche-free. Some of the meter feels choppy but it could work with the right vocal performance. Traditional V/C structure, should be fine - I like bridges but that's not a problem.

 

What I do think is a problem is that the whole thing is emotionally monochromatic. I hate you I hate you I hate you. This hurts in a variety of ways. You can't structure the arrangement/performance around the emotional climax because there is no emotional climax. You can't draw on the empathy of the audience because the tone is abusive. There are some clever variations on the theme but I'm not invested in the theme - I don't personally know the object of your scorn, I don't feel how irritating/aggravating/annoying he/she is, I don't sympathize with how that person's attributes or behaviors might make me (or even better, you) crazy.

 

A nasty theme is not necessarily a fatal problem - Positively 4th Street is uniformly nasty, and I think that is a great song. But it does give you a hurdle to overcome. The characters in P4S come to life (unpleasant as they are), the performance is committed and emotionally charged, and the non-stop inventiveness of the rhythm and rhyme is more than enough to overcome the unpleasant theme. And much as I appreciate the cleverness of your writing it has a long way to go for me to appreciate it like I appreciate mid-sixties Dylan.

[IllinoisJack]

RSADISIV: Understood. I was trying to avoid a cliched climactic ending - a revenge line - but I see your point about monochromatic and vague references. Maybe I should take a different step off the plate. Maybe from a different viewpoint - perhaps pointing this person out to a friend and cataloging their flaws. That would change absolutely everything - but I'm not opposed. Hmmmm..... lots to think about. Thanks.

 

LCK: Oops - check the text again. See, I do change things with suggestions.

[Marshal]

This is the weakest one you've posted and I've read so far. Not because of the craft. It's nice lyrically. Clever and funny. But it doesn't go anywhere and doesn't redeem itself. I suppose funny stuff like this has a certain shock value and can grab attention while you machine-gun out clever quips. But after a first listen, there's nothing there to bring the listener back. I really don't learn anything about the person that sings it or the object of his derision. I've got no frame of reference. No hook to hang it on.

 

I suppose in performance, you could tell a story about a brother-in-law, or some joker and tell something he did to bother you, and then launch into this song as an exaggerated response. That would work. But the song by itself needs some frame of reference.

[IllinoisJack]

I've made some adjustments. In bold.