Members Rock Hardness Posted May 18, 2012 Members Share Posted May 18, 2012 Wonder if they can get John DeLorean's lawyer to get them off too! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members iff Posted May 18, 2012 Members Share Posted May 18, 2012 Kind of funny how when people stand up for something that I could only assume that most of us agree with and would like to change (albeit they never tend to be so great at organizing it ), they're called entitled. What is the difference between you (myself included) and them other that they're actually trying to do something about it rather than sitting passively? Do you become entitled as soon as you speak up? Same thing going on up here with the students in Quebec protesting over university tuition being raised province-wide. So respect to them all for trying to make a difference; it's just a shame that the people who are so keen to do it are so bad at it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Neilrocks25 Posted May 18, 2012 Members Share Posted May 18, 2012 Great info, but the writing was fkn horrible. I liked that album, but they started to lose it after that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Ovid9 Posted May 18, 2012 Members Share Posted May 18, 2012 Kind of funny how when people stand up for something that I could only assume that most of us agree with and would like to change (albeit they never tend to be so great at organizing it ), they're called entitled. What is the difference between you (myself included) and them other that they're actually trying to do something about it rather than sitting passively? Do you become entitled as soon as you speak up? Same thing going on up here with the students in Quebec protesting over university tuition being raised province-wide. So respect to them all for trying to make a difference; it's just a shame that the people who are so keen to do it are so bad at it. Word. And since I was the one who used the word entitled, I'll explain myself: Its an impression I've taken away from some people loosely involved in the protests. Mostly college age kids. Tuition and college expenses are out of control in this country, I have no argument with that. The system is MASSIVELY screwed up. BUT, when you're standing around fiddling with your iphone or smartphone with a north face back pack whining about paying $50k a year to get your degree in theater, or women's studies, or philosophy (and not because you intend on becoming a philosophy prof) well, I don't feel a ton of sympathy for you.* Did I just have a bunch of stereotypes in there? Yes. Are they all accurate? No. Is the cost of college education a serious problem? Yes! (The US recently surpassed 1 trillion in student loan debt. ~84% of it in federal loans you can't clear with bankruptcy) But good lord people get a brain! If you want to be a teacher, or an artist, or a theater director, AWESOME. All those are important things, but you can't take out 50k in loans and do that. At least not if you want to do anything but pay on those loans for 10 years. (Or 20 or 30) So, entitled is probably unfair for most. But again, that's how some come across and its unfortunate because again, I agree with many of the issues raised by the movement, it just has pretty much had 0 practical impact anywhere. And that's a shame. *This is coming from a guy who majored in history and never "used" his degree at all because life short-circuited my path to grad school and becoming a research librarian. Fortunately I had a relatively small amount of student loans so its never been a problem and I went to a small private college. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Rock Hardness Posted May 18, 2012 Members Share Posted May 18, 2012 I live in the Bay Area, so most of the "Occupy" movement here comes off as entitled. Here's an example: http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2012/05/13/MNL01OH8DA.DTL TL/DR - Occupy the Farm takes over land owned by UC Berkeley, demands urban farming "rights" and starts planting gardens on UC Agri-research land. Police finally evict them. UC wants to talk, dirt farmers refuse until lawsuits dropped, continue tresspassing. Want an urban garden? Buy some land and plant one!!! Hippies. Once I was sympathetic. Now I class them as non-bathing whiners that think the world owes them a living. YMMV. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members HKSblade1 Posted May 18, 2012 Members Share Posted May 18, 2012 Occupiers continue to draw attention to a fundamental problem in this country (and globally). It's up to the rest of us to pressure our government to respond to the laws that allow for the 1% to control the majority of the wealth, and how that affects the rest of us. Occupiers are greatly contributing to society through their active political involvement, much more than someone who just goes to working and quietly accepts the Wall St ass-{censored}ing we are all getting. Yeah those guys at GE , Apple, GS, and that {censored} from Facebook better start paying their fair share!! {censored}ing cheap ass 1 percent {censored}s! See if those OWS'er support your dumb asses..... Ohhh wait Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Hapless Posted May 18, 2012 Members Share Posted May 18, 2012 Basically, it depends. The theory of entrapment as a defense is based on the idea that a person who is not predisposed to committing a crime should not be punished if law enforcement actually induced the person to commit the crime. IIRC, it has to be fairly egregious to work. This. People have no idea what entrapment really is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members thefyn Posted May 18, 2012 Members Share Posted May 18, 2012 There are sides. There's the side of the corporate party (most democratic and republican politicians), and there's the side of the 99%. You are correct that the corporate media does not portray it as such, and continues to keep us believing that there is much difference between the democrats and republicans (despite their both being funded by the same corporate backers). Unfortunately, Ron Paul, and the libertarian agenda would worsen the problem exponentially with its focus on deregulation and allowance of the rich to set the agenda. Nope. Ron Paul is the answer. But that is another thread. Him having a libertarian bent does not mean he is against fiscal laws. Even then, the debt racked up by Bush and Obama is literally impossible to pay off. So Ron Paul would be long dead before that is even close to being paid down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members thefyn Posted May 18, 2012 Members Share Posted May 18, 2012 Yeah those guys at GE , Apple, GS, and that {censored} from Facebook better start paying their fair share!! {censored}ing cheap ass 1 percent {censored}s! See if those OWS'er support your dumb asses..... Ohhh wait Most large companies dont pay taxes. They pay more lobbying congress for favours than they do giving back. it's corporatism. As for Apple, after seeing the working conditions of their workers overseas, I'm never buying an apple product again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Ovid9 Posted May 18, 2012 Members Share Posted May 18, 2012 Yep. Aww, your original post here was better. And more depressing. But better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members LSDis4me Posted May 18, 2012 Members Share Posted May 18, 2012 Yeah those guys at GE , Apple, GS, and that {censored} from Facebook better start paying their fair share!! {censored}ing cheap ass 1 percent {censored}s! See if those OWS'er support your dumb asses.....Ohhh wait And the alternative is? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members LSDis4me Posted May 18, 2012 Members Share Posted May 18, 2012 You sir are correct. Taibbi has huge cojones. God bless him. If you're not outraged, you're not paying attention. Here's a great interview with Taibbi:http://www.democracynow.org/2012/3/22/too_crooked_to_fail_matt_taibbi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members thefyn Posted May 18, 2012 Members Share Posted May 18, 2012 Look at the average age and maturity level of the average Occupier. It's hard to respect them when they act like thugs and act on pure emotion alone with no display of wisdom evident. Why ignore young people who cant articulate themselves? Millions of them are up to their eyes in debt via student loans, the job market sucks and they overpaid for one of the worst educations in modernized countries. Take Fannie and Freddie. They make loans to poor families. They got all sorts of lobbying draconian laws introduced. Now you cant get rid of their student loan debt, EVEN IF YOU DECLARE BANKRUPTCY. The cost of education is rising to almost super inflated levels, it's not a good education (not even top 20 in the world in math and science) and you can't shake the debt even though you were preyed upon as a 17 year old by unscrupulous lenders. They have every right to be pissed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members thefyn Posted May 18, 2012 Members Share Posted May 18, 2012 Aww, your original post here was better. And more depressing. But better. I changed it. I kinda sped read his response. haha. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ***1776*** Posted May 18, 2012 Members Share Posted May 18, 2012 Why ignore young people who cant articulate themselves? Millions of them are up to their eyes in debt via student loans, the job market sucks and they overpaid for one of the worst educations in modernized countries. Take Fannie and Freddie. They make loans to poor families. They got all sorts of lobbying draconian laws introduced. Now you cant get rid of their student loan debt, EVEN IF YOU DECLARE BANKRUPTCY. The cost of education is rising to almost super inflated levels, it's not a good education (not even top 20 in the world in math and science) and you can't shake the debt even though you were preyed upon as a 17 year old by unscrupulous lenders. They have every right to be pissed. Is $$$ just supposed to dissapear? Why do u need to declare banktrupcty in your 20's? WTF is that about? I ask this before and ill ask again --- WHY IS IT THAT COLLEGE TUITION IS EXPLODING FASTER THAN ANY OTHER COSTS INCLUDING HEALTHCARE? WHY IS IT? WHERE IS THE $$$ GOING?......................? We have politicians and the media talk about a healthcare "crisis" but what about the EXPLOSION of education costs when is this going to be examined? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members thefyn Posted May 18, 2012 Members Share Posted May 18, 2012 Is $$$ just supposed to dissapear? Why do u need to declare banktrupcty in your 20's? WTF is that about? I ask this before and ill ask again --- WHY IS IT THAT COLLEGE TUITION IS EXPLODING FASTER THAN ANY OTHER COSTS INCLUDING HEALTHCARE? WHY IS IT? WHERE IS THE $$$ GOING?......................? We have politicians and the media talk about a healthcare "crisis" but what about the EXPLOSION of education costs when is this going to be examined? The problem is if they miss a few payments, their % goes through the roof. 15, 20 even 25% interest which if course is impossible to pay off on 70k loans. It's predatory lending on the most vulnerable uninformed kids/parents. The poor. The same thing happened to the housing market: Good intentions by the gov (like affordable housing) to have the American dream was like lifting the velvet credit rope for poor people. Which in turn hiked up home prices etc and {censored}ed the middle class. When the gov starts facilitating loans to families with bad credit ratings/low income: Why would you expect financial institutions to do the right thing>? It's like unleashing a pack of wolves on un wary families. http://occupystudentdebt.com/about "We did what we were told to do and Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Ovid9 Posted May 18, 2012 Members Share Posted May 18, 2012 thefyn, please stop with your facts, logic, and calm and even tone. It has no place in a discussion such as this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ***1776*** Posted May 18, 2012 Members Share Posted May 18, 2012 So we still dont have a clue or even CARE why student tuition is going through the roof... Ok thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members thefyn Posted May 18, 2012 Members Share Posted May 18, 2012 thefyn, please stop with your facts, logic, and calm and even tone. It has no place in a discussion such as this. Heh. Luckily Obama is addressing it for future students, but ones who are on loans from Fannie Mae etc seem to have been forgotten. He is also putting up a fake fight to stop 1000's of student loan interest payments jumping from 3.4% to 6.8%. By fake meaning it is not going to happen, but he wants to use the cut as leverage to get some tax hikes elsewhere. It's a mess. My wife has been paying $400 a month on hers for 6 years and it never seems to go down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members thefyn Posted May 18, 2012 Members Share Posted May 18, 2012 So we still dont have a clue or even CARE why student tuition is going through the roof... Ok thanks I already mentioned it. If everyone can get a loan to get something (because of the gov facilitating loans), supply and demand gets skewed and colleges find they can overcharge. Plus in the past the colleges get $$$ incentives for having loan sharks, credit card companies etc on campus. There is a good documentary on it on facebook. Its a classic case of good intentions from the gov being preyed upon by the banks/tuition for profit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Ovid9 Posted May 18, 2012 Members Share Posted May 18, 2012 I already mentioned it. If everyone can get a loan to get something (because of the gov facilitating loans), supply and demand gets skewed and colleges find they can overcharge. Plus in the past the colleges get $$$ incentives for having loan sharks, credit card companies etc on campus.There is a good documentary on it on facebook. Its a classic case of good intentions from the gov being preyed upon by the banks/tuition for profit. Funny how capitalist even public institutions will get when offered the opportunity. And, as far as state schools go, many schools funding has gone down, so there may be some legit reasons...but I also think there is a lot of creative accounting going on in higher education. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members drewl Posted May 18, 2012 Author Members Share Posted May 18, 2012 So we still dont have a clue or even CARE why student tuition is going through the roof... Ok thanks NCAA?? They should should make betting on college teams legal, and use some of the revenue to reduce tuition. used to be a time when the captains of industry beleived in this country, and did what was right for the nation as well as their balance sheet. But I digress. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Ovid9 Posted May 19, 2012 Members Share Posted May 19, 2012 NCAA??They should should make betting on college teams legal, and use some of the revenue to reduce tuition.used to be a time when the captains of industry beleived in this country, and did what was right for the nation as well as their balance sheet.But I digress. Eh......some of them. It'd be overlooking a whole lot of AWFUL done by captains of industry in the past too. Now they can just spread it over multiple continents and they aren't beholden to their "home" country at all so the veneer of nationalism (which is often bad anyway) doesn't even have to exist. Really, we just need to raise the corporate tax rate to about 80%, put in massive loopholes for every company that donates huge $$$ to campaigns and insure the smaller and midsized businesses all die off. They're just clogging up the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ***1776*** Posted May 19, 2012 Members Share Posted May 19, 2012 The universities have a 'vested interest' in seeing aid and loans, etc to the schools because they get the $$m from the state, local and federal goverments! They have skin in the game and many (not all) but many professors and deans, educators have enormous benfit packages and benifits that add over to alot of $$ over time My old school put up 2-3 new buildings, a fancy wall going around the entrance and alot of construction that wasnt exactly neccessary or needed, its easy to spend $$ when its not yours, --- thats the very same problem with idiot politicians colleges and universities have to learn to spend $$ just like the rest of us --- Its not the only problem (I agree there are others) but its a big part of the problem Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Inspector 71 Posted May 19, 2012 Members Share Posted May 19, 2012 COINTELPRO'd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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