Kemper Profiling Amp - Buy now or wait ??

[Crunchtime]

I' going to wait for the next five latest and greatest things to come and then get Snax and Kemper quality for pennies.

[mbarn3065]

I love my Kemper. Life is too short to wait every time something new comes out. I know people who are still waiting to see if Betamax or VHS wins out.

 

[Crunchtime]

I love my Kemper. Life is too short to wait every time something new comes out. I know people who are still waiting to see if Betamax or VHS wins out.

 

LOL. My Dad went with Beta!

[HKSblade1]

I guess I don't think of it as better, I think of it as different. The Kemper is a different idea/structure to the problem of guitar processing. The Axe-FX is more of a mathematical approximation of all the parts in a tube amp. The Kemper is more like a still picture taken of that same amp at some point in time . I think of it like keyboards, in the old synthesis vs. samplers debate. If you want the ability to tweak every little thing about a sound you will go Axe-FX, if you just want 4,000 presets to listen to and pick your favorites, you will go Kemper.

Not quite at all imo. Kemper is so much more dynamic in gain realism, has the real gusto of the amp being profiled as well as the amp/cab/speaker/mic in the room sound. IOW it has the airy sound modeling absolutely lacks imo. Your post seems to suggest Kemper is one dimensional when actually it's far from one dimensional even as a monaural profile. Some call it 3D like.. as in the three classes of dynamics.. gain, tone, and air.

Kemper really doesn't need the reverb or other stereo effects to broaden its tone like modeling does. Modeling with no effects applied just sounds thin by any comparison imo.

Our lead player has an axe II and a Kemper. I have the standard snax, which is plenty for me. So far almost every dude that has been in his studio and played them both has said the Kemper is a purer more defined amp tone.

IMO though the amp sounds of the Kemper just beat even the latest firmware of the snaxII which has a lot of snaxII people arguing for days (as usual) at every forum.

[IbanezJon]

Good points guys.

 

I guess the other thing with the Axe Fx.. forgetting the extra 'profiling' features of the Kemper.. on pure sound quality, I was lead to believe that Axe Fx was it.. the pinnacle. That it was pretty much perfect in what it does, but now the Kemper has a "more defined amp tone"? Forgetting special features and improvements in the EQ tone stack etc, and on pure sound quality alone.. are these current modellers 9/10.. 9.5/10 or 7 out of 10? Is there something that is going to come along and make both of these seem like 7/10's.. or are they already at that point where it's hard to tell the difference between the real and modelled ones? I thought it was the latter.

[Valtiel]

 

Good points guys. I guess the other thing with the Axe Fx.. forgetting the extra 'profiling' features of the Kemper.. on pure sound quality, I was lead to believe that Axe Fx was it.. the pinnacle. That it was pretty much perfect in what it does, but now the Kemper has a "more defined amp tone"? Forgetting special features and improvements in the EQ tone stack etc, and on pure sound quality alone.. are these current modellers 9/10.. 9.5/10 or 7 out of 10? Is there something that is going to come along and make both of these seem like 7/10's.. or are they already at that point where it's hard to tell the difference between the real and modelled ones? I thought it was the latter.

 

 

It's hard to say what is going to come next, but this is how I look at it. I don't think that AxefX was ever "the pinnacle", it just did what it did very very well, better than any of its predecessors. The problem is what I imagine to be the immensely complicated algorithms necessary to replicate the chaotic nature of tube amps. Once you start shooting for that goal you're going to come under way more scrutiny from tube purists, this is why a lot of people prefer the Line6 XT/X3 stuff over the newer HD units, the XT/X3 did its own thing that you wouldn't really compare to an actual tube amp because it didn't market itself as a replacement for them. It had its own unique sounds that were decidedly not "amp like" but were still useful in a number of situations. Now you get the HD stuff and it becomes a bit like the young guitar player who abandons his unique style to copy his hero.

 

But back to the algorithms, I like to use an analogy similar to what Shask posted; if the tone of an amp is a beautiful panoramic view then the AxeFX approach is to painstakingly recreate it with a pencil and paper and the Kemper approach is to grab a really nice camera and take a shot of it. The latter is going to give you more accurate results IMO as long as the source material is good and the photographer knows what he's doing whereas the former has the potential to be more flexible since the creator has more control over what the source material is but there is always that fine detail that will slip between the cracks just because its too difficult/impractical to recreate.

 

This is just my take on it though, but I can safely say owning both units that the Kemper wins in terms of amp realism and is more of a pleasure to record with, provided that the profiled amp was not dialed in by an Ape and was mic'ed well.

[HKSblade1]

^ Nice way of putting it.

 

That's what I meant. The Kemper does a great job at bringing out the defining characteristics of the amp, cab , speaker type, and mic which is what many of us have been more used to. It's a sound you don't really fight or dig too deep to achieve. Dial it up and its there. The other modelers require more tweaks, cab IR's, compressors, reverbs and plush delays to fill out the less than amp like sound imo.

 

Both are killer units. I guess the question is more of how do you plan on maximizing the use of either unit. If its amp and cab tones with basic effects then the Kemper has that in spades. If you want more features to craft a sound of your own liking then the axe fx or traditional modeling might be the option for you.

[Shask]

That sounds good I didn't mean the Kemper was 2D, I just meant it was a different way to look at it.

[mbarn3065]

It's hard to say what is going to come next, but this is how I look at it. I don't think that AxefX was ever "the pinnacle", it just did what it did very very well, better than any of its predecessors. The problem is what I imagine to be the immensely complicated algorithms necessary to replicate the chaotic nature of tube amps. Once you start shooting for that goal you're going to come under way more scrutiny from tube purists, this is why a lot of people prefer the Line6 XT/X3 stuff over the newer HD units, the XT/X3 did its own thing that you wouldn't really compare to an actual tube amp because it didn't market itself as a replacement for them. It had its own unique sounds that were decidedly not "amp like" but were still useful in a number of situations. Now you get the HD stuff and it becomes a bit like the young guitar player who abandons his unique style to copy his hero. But back to the algorithms, I like to use an analogy similar to what Shask posted; if the tone of an amp is a beautiful panoramic view then the AxeFX approach is to painstakingly recreate it with a pencil and paper and the Kemper approach is to grab a really nice camera and take a shot of it. The latter is going to give you more accurate results IMO as long as the source material is good and the photographer knows what he's doing whereas the former has the potential to be more flexible since the creator has more control over what the source material is but there is always that fine detail that will slip between the cracks just because its too difficult/impractical to recreate. This is just my take on it though, but I can safely say owning both units that the Kemper wins in terms of amp realism and is more of a pleasure to record with, provided that the profiled amp was not dialed in by an Ape and was mic'ed well.

It's refreshing to read an intelligent post about the KPA and Axe-Fx. Usually the topic is a hot button issue.

[PaoloJM]

 

^ Nice way of putting it. That's what I meant. The Kemper does a great job at bringing out the defining characteristics of the amp, cab , speaker type, and mic which is what many of us have been more used to. It's a sound you don't really fight or dig too deep to achieve. Dial it up and its there. The other modelers require more tweaks, cab IR's, compressors, reverbs and plush delays to fill out the less than amp like sound imo. Both are killer units. I guess the question is more of how do you plan on maximizing the use of either unit. If its amp and cab tones with basic effects then the Kemper has that in spades. If you want more features to craft a sound of your own liking then the axe fx or traditional modeling might be the option for you.

 

 

This, if you can't get great tones out of either unit then you are the problem and you should give up.

[46&2]

But doesn't the Axe Fx sound superior?

[FastRedPonyCar]

I love my Kemper. Life is too short to wait every time something new comes out. I know people who are still waiting to see if Betamax or VHS wins out.

 

It's funny cause porn industry going with VHS is what tipped the technology trend in VHS's favor.

[Valtiel]

It's funny cause porn industry going with VHS is what tipped the technology trend in VHS's favor.

 

And then the same thing with Blu-ray.

[hawg427]

I bought a scratch & dent one and saved a bunch from AMS.com and after I put my name & date in it I got a Paste Buffer Empty message. I couldn't read the other screens because this message was in Bold letters. Called AMS and they had no clue. Called a friend a Sweetwater and he couldn't help me since I didn't buy it there. People on the Forum were very nice but only 1 in 7 had a hint of what was probably going on with it. The Paste button was either broken or stuck. So I called AMS back and they paid for the return shipping and put a full refund on my card. I think I'm going to wait a bit longer before I order the next one. There wasn't one single scratch on my unit so AMS didn't even turn the unit on that the previous customer returned. That's what MOST of there S&D's are. But the people that get one working seem to love it. I can't wait to have all those amps at my disposal.

[HKSblade1]

 

I bought a scratch & dent one and saved a bunch from AMS.com and after I put my name & date in it I got a Paste Buffer Empty message. I couldn't read the other screens because this message was in Bold letters. Called AMS and they had no clue. Called a friend a Sweetwater and he couldn't help me since I didn't buy it there. People on the Forum were very nice but only 1 in 7 had a hint of what was probably going on with it. The Paste button was either broken or stuck. So I called AMS back and they paid for the return shipping and put a full refund on my card. I think I'm going to wait a bit longer before I order the next one. There wasn't one single scratch on my unit so AMS didn't even turn the unit on that the previous customer returned. That's what MOST of there S&D's are. But the people that get one working seem to love it. I can't wait to have all those amps at my disposal.

 

 

It's a digital computerized amp. No matter if its a snax or a Kemper or Line 6, it can/will have issues. Some new out of the box, some break down later.

 

I have had new Line 6 units out of the box DEAD. Exchanged it twice and eventually Line 6 sent me a new one from a newer production line. That unit works to this day.

 

I had an axe fx die at a gig. Just all lit up, no sound, nothing but a backlit display. Sent it out they fixed or replaced.

 

These units get moved around a lot and even when racked, can have problems. OTOH my bud has an Rp500 that sits in his car basically year round. Thing is beat to {censored} and works every time.

 

Electronics is like that, especially {censored} with computers and signal processors in them. 9 out of ten consumer electronic devices crap out whether computers, pad computers, phones, tv's, cd/dvd players etc. Just have to be on the lucky happy side of that 90 or so percentile.

 

I'd say the avg's are higher for pro audio processors/modelers etc, but they still will fail. Always better if within the return or warranty periods. Other wise you may end up with an expensive door stop.