Members notjonahbutnoah Posted September 1, 2012 Members Share Posted September 1, 2012 Ok, before someone comes in and talks about how tubes don't have a tone per se, and it's all in the amp, yadda yadda yadda, I just wanna know what tonal differences you may or may not have noticed if you have tried both in the same amp. So yeah, some sites lump them in together. I reckon they're similar, but what, if any, are the differences? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members guitarcapo Posted September 1, 2012 Members Share Posted September 1, 2012 Some of these modern "KT" tubes are actually not really KT's at all. Just 6L6GC or EL34 in a different shaped bottle. The Sovtek "KT66" for example is just a 6L6 tube in a different bottle shape. The Sovtek company figured that since all the specs of a 6L6 surpasses that of a KT66, they will work in any application that calls for a real KT66...so it's not dangerous at all to just put 6L6 guts inside a KT66 shaped bottle and call it a KT66...even though it won't sound exactly the same. Not sure about the ones you mention....but something to look out for. I'd like to use KT tubes more for experimentation but TRUE KT tubes require a larger filament current more than amp power transformers can handle without overheating. Also sometimes amps with fixed bias don't have enough supply off the transformer to bias them right. A KT66 for example requires 1.3 amps to heat it up instead of .9 of a 6L6....with a pair of them in a Super Reverb you'll need an extra .8 amp....most Super Reverb transformers can only handle 4 amps at the filaments and that extra .8 amp send it over tolerance. And after all that they only are going to give you 25 watts maximum dissipation instead of 30 from a 6L6GC....so very inefficient. There's also space issues fitting them into some amps and heat issues. The metal base is sometimes "live" will sometimes get grounded by "beartrap" tube holders so they have to be removed and some other way has to be found to hold them in place. So after all that...how about the great sound benefits? Kinkless Tertrode power tubes were designed to give a flat frequency reponse without the scoop to the mids. To my ear they sound a touch "darker" in an amp or muddy because they don't have the slight mid scoop of a 6L6. In my opinion this MIGHT be a good quality for overdriven amps or for jazz but for country or anything like a clean sound they aren't helping. Sure you could work around this stuff by designing the preamp, EQ, and speaker a certain way...but at that point why bother with them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DrakkarTyrannis Posted September 1, 2012 Members Share Posted September 1, 2012 My KT77s had a fatter low end and smoother mids than the EL34s I tried..then I moved to Sovtel 6550s which seemed to have even more low end, good high end, and not as middy as the EL34. Sort of reminded me of a mega 6l6. Then I went to EH KT90s which seemed to have more everything. Very detailed with more mids, highs, and a {censored}ton of clear and tight bass..very punch tube but not woofy. I never tried the KT88 due to the limited spacing in my JSX but I wanted to, however the KT90 eliminated that want Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members notjonahbutnoah Posted September 1, 2012 Author Members Share Posted September 1, 2012 My KT77s had a fatter low end and smoother mids than the EL34s I tried..then I moved to Sovtel 6550s which seemed to have even more low end, good high end, and not as middy as the EL34. Sort of reminded me of a mega 6l6. Then I went to EH KT90s which seemed to have more everything. Very detailed with more mids, highs, and a {censored}ton of clear and tight bass..very punch tube but not woofy. I never tried the KT88 due to the limited spacing in my JSX but I wanted to, however the KT90 eliminated that want Good info. Thanks. What amp? What sort of tones were you going for? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members iff Posted September 1, 2012 Members Share Posted September 1, 2012 From what I understand, 6550s are a bit more aggressive than KT88s and KT88s are a bit more hifi and alive than 6550s. There shouldn't be nearly as much difference between them as there was between the EL34s and 6550s though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members apophis Posted September 1, 2012 Members Share Posted September 1, 2012 You can get more overdriven feel off 6550 tubes,also they seem more focused as opposed to kt88's big and open response Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members apophis Posted September 1, 2012 Members Share Posted September 1, 2012 You can get more overdriven feel off 6550 tubes,also they seem more focused as opposed to kt88's big and open response Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members charveldan Posted September 1, 2012 Members Share Posted September 1, 2012 I have the =C= 6550, 6L6, & EL-34, highly recommended. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members 13bats Posted September 1, 2012 Members Share Posted September 1, 2012 Some of these modern "KT" tubes are actually not really KT's at all. Just 6L6GC or EL34 in a different shaped bottle.The Sovtek "KT66" for example is just a 6L6 tube in a different bottle shape.The Sovtek company figured that since all the specs of a 6L6 surpasses that of a KT66, they will work in any application that calls for a real KT66...so it's not dangerous at all to just put 6L6 guts inside a KT66 shaped bottle and call it a KT66...even though it won't sound exactly the same.Not sure about the ones you mention....but something to look out for.I'd like to use KT tubes more for experimentation but TRUE KT tubes require a larger filament current more than amp power transformers can handle without overheating. Also sometimes amps with fixed bias don't have enough supply off the transformer to bias them right.A KT66 for example requires 1.3 amps to heat it up instead of .9 of a 6L6....with a pair of them in a Super Reverb you'll need an extra .8 amp....most Super Reverb transformers can only handle 4 amps at the filaments and that extra .8 amp send it over tolerance.And after all that they only are going to give you 25 watts maximum dissipation instead of 30 from a 6L6GC....so very inefficient.There's also space issues fitting them into some amps and heat issues. The metal base is sometimes "live" will sometimes get grounded by "beartrap" tube holders so they have to be removed and some other way has to be found to hold them in place.So after all that...how about the great sound benefits?Kinkless Tertrode power tubes were designed to give a flat frequency reponse without the scoop to the mids. To my ear they sound a touch "darker" in an amp or muddy because they don't have the slight mid scoop of a 6L6. In my opinion this MIGHT be a good quality for overdriven amps or for jazz but for country or anything like a clean sound they aren't helping. Sure you could work around this stuff by designing the preamp, EQ, and speaker a certain way...but at that point why bother with them? I can only vouch for the KT88 ,I think its depends on the circuit and the transformers ,plate voltage .My Modena has super headroom thanks to huge transformers and 570 v on the plates. The amp clean channel is super clean and I think would work great for country of jazz.For me the problem is on the other side with the Kt88 or 6550 .It has so much power and headroom that it does nothing to color the od channel its a stiffer ,hi fi type of tone. If you are a lead player its does not sag when you dig in its almost like hitting a wall.For a metal tone its killer type and fast attack ,percussive ..for Classic rock Hard rock blues thats were i think the El34s excel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Hardvalve Posted September 1, 2012 Members Share Posted September 1, 2012 I have the =C= 6550, 6L6, & EL-34, highly recommended. Dan, bought these instead of food this month. I prefer KT-88, more headroom, and a fatter tone. 6550 tubes are good, just prefer the KT-88 more. Anything by =C= are good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members notjonahbutnoah Posted September 1, 2012 Author Members Share Posted September 1, 2012 Thanks for everything so far! I'm gathering that 6550's, while high in headroom, do tend to break up a bit easier and add more color than a KT-88, which has a more hi-fi kind of sound. More bass? Intradasting. For the record, I'm very happy with my current setup, the new Peters mixed with my pedals is just great. Not really looking to change anything. I've just never had an amp that I could bias myself and took so many kinds of tubes, so of course I'm curious. I'm probably gonna start a 12AX7 thread soon, so look out. So I've seen these winged c tubes brought up on several occasions. They're rather pricey. Why are they so good? Is it tone? Durability? Longevity? Are they worth the price difference over something like Tung Sol, JJ, or Sovtek? I can only vouch for the KT88 ,I think its depends on the circuit and the transformers ,plate voltage . My Modena has super headroom thanks to huge transformers and 570 v on the plates. The amp clean channel is super clean and I think would work great for country of jazz. For me the problem is on the other side with the Kt88 or 6550 .It has so much power and headroom that it does nothing to color the od channel its a stiffer ,hi fi type of tone. If you are a lead player its does not sag when you dig in its almost like hitting a wall. For a metal tone its killer type and fast attack ,percussive ..for Classic rock Hard rock blues thats were i think the El34s excel Yeah, I think I dig headroom and generally play faster music, so any sag would get kinda lost. I like that tight response. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members 13bats Posted September 1, 2012 Members Share Posted September 1, 2012 I think you would be really happy with the Kt88 ,or the new Kt90 I believe that just came out Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members charveldan Posted September 1, 2012 Members Share Posted September 1, 2012 Thanks for everything so far! I'm gathering that 6550's, while high in headroom, do tend to break up a bit easier and add more color than a KT-88, which has a more hi-fi kind of sound. More bass? Intradasting. For the record, I'm very happy with my current setup, the new Peters mixed with my pedals is just great. Not really looking to change anything. I've just never had an amp that I could bias myself and took so many kinds of tubes, so of course I'm curious. I'm probably gonna start a 12AX7 thread soon, so look out. So I've seen these winged c tubes brought up on several occasions. They're rather pricey. Why are they so good? Is it tone? Durability? Longevity? Are they worth the price difference over something like Tung Sol, JJ, or Sovtek? Yeah, I think I dig headroom and generally play faster music, so any sag would get kinda lost. I like that tight response. Tone, durability, & longevity are all =C= strongpoints, i have 2 quads that are over 4 years old and show no sign of slowing down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members notjonahbutnoah Posted September 1, 2012 Author Members Share Posted September 1, 2012 Tone, durability, & longevity are all =C= strongpoints, i have 2 quads that are over 4 years old and show no sign of slowing down. Well that's a long time. Dunno if I can make myself pay 150 for 2 tubes, but perhaps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members charveldan Posted September 1, 2012 Members Share Posted September 1, 2012 Perhaps. Just might give em a shot sometime. Well that's a long time. Dunno if I can make myself pay 150 for 2 tubes, but perhaps. http://valvequeen.com/index.php?option=com_virtuemart&page=shop.browse&category_id=11&Itemid=5&vmcchk=1&Itemid=5 Lauras got a pair of =C='s for $110 plus shipping, she's awesome to deal with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members JeffHenneman Posted September 2, 2012 Members Share Posted September 2, 2012 For me I generally don't see much of a difference from different tube brands. Different Tube type offer a little more change in the tone in my experience. I wanted to share my experience with Randall mts amps, mainly my rm100. As a stated I personanally did not hear much of a difference between tubes until I got my Randall. Those amps really show the difference between tubes. So there is a definite difference between tubes, it is just more about the amp design. Some amps responde to tunes differently than others.Sorry to kinda side track the thread, but I always like talking about my Randall. It has been such a fun amp to have. I have yet to try kt88 in it, but have tried a bunch of others. Right now I am runnin it with 2x6l6 and 2x6550. It is an awesome high gainer right now. Nice big low end but yet tight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members NITROHOLIC Posted September 2, 2012 Members Share Posted September 2, 2012 love kt-88s in bass amps. now if i could just get a reeves 400 modded to accept kt-120s. . . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members notjonahbutnoah Posted September 2, 2012 Author Members Share Posted September 2, 2012 For me I generally don't see much of a difference from different tube brands. Different Tube type offer a little more change in the tone in my experience. I wanted to share my experience with Randall mts amps, mainly my rm100. As a stated I personanally did not hear much of a difference between tubes until I got my Randall. Those amps really show the difference between tubes. So there is a definite difference between tubes, it is just more about the amp design. Some amps responde to tunes differently than others. Sorry to kinda side track the thread, but I always like talking about my Randall. It has been such a fun amp to have. I have yet to try kt88 in it, but have tried a bunch of others. Right now I am runnin it with 2x6l6 and 2x6550. It is an awesome high gainer right now. Nice big low end but yet tight. No worries. Yeah, some amps show more difference than others. My Heartbreaker for example, there really wasn't a whole lot of difference between 6L6s and EL34's. the Peters is quite responsive though. Hence my curiosity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members apophis Posted September 2, 2012 Members Share Posted September 2, 2012 FWIW if you plan on getting 6550's try the JJ offering....i have tried both those and Winged C/Black sable 6550 in my deliverance and kind of prefer the JJ's ....they have a more vintage'y feel to them while still retaining all of the tube's properties (headroom,tight bass,etc).....the winged C tube is a lot stiffer feeling,seems like it has a bit less bass,but has awesome mids.....I also have a pair of Winged C KT88's and that is overall the best tube in the amp if you plan on playing extremely loud.....like for playing live without micing...the headroom on those is great...so i use JJ 6550s for practice and for live i switch to the SED KT88 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members notjonahbutnoah Posted September 2, 2012 Author Members Share Posted September 2, 2012 Yeah, I've already got some Tung Sol 6550's in my amp, they sound lovely. Just bigger and smoother than EL34's. Hmm, it's sounding more and more like I would prefer the KT 88. Interesting. I think some winged c KT 88's from VQ will be my next purchase. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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