What's That Noise!!!!

[coreopsisjay]

Hello, and thank you to anyone who replies,

 

I just baught my first classical guitar... a used Takamine c132s. Yeah, I know it's not spanish, but it really sounds great for the price.

 

The problem is: whenever I hit the fourth string, 5th fret, I don't get a true note. Instead i get this deep, low, hoot type noise. I can also feel the whole guitar vibrating more. It does it a little on the fourth fret, but not as bad, and no other string does this.

 

I'm trying to learn fingerpicking and if I play a cmaj7 on the third fret everything sounds beautifull untill I hit that one fret and then it's really awful. It's much louder than the other notes and kind of strange sounding.

 

Does anyone know what could be causing this? Is it just normal for a classical to have spots like this?

 

I don't know if I should return it or try and deal with it. I do like the guitar but I'd probably have to avoid hitting that spot.

 

Any ideas?

 

Thanks,

Jay

[EvilHippy]

Well....first of all....i'm curious....do you like spanish/classical guitar music? Did you intend on buying it to play classical? I say fingerpicking is more of a steel string thing.....I don't know, dome people like classical guitars.I can't stand em'.Even the high dollar $4,000-$5,000 classicals feel like cheap toys-R-us guitars.If I had to choose between classical guitar or no guitar....I would say classical, but I don't like em'.I do think they have great sound....just ask Willie Nelson, but I don't own one because they feel cheap.Now, if I was going to buy one it would be something reputable like a Martin,Taylor,or maybe a Ramirez or something i'd buy one.Maybe a 60's Gibson Classical~EH

Don't know about them frets, might have to do with having no truss rod.I know nylon strings don't put on much tension, but you'd have to think after a while it would need some kind of a press.Or if it was a cheap guitar it wasn't built well.I don't think classical neck joints can be reset.I read about it on Frank Ford's site.

[coreopsisjay]

Well, I don't get your point. I baught a classical guitar because I wanted a specific sound... no matter what i'm going to play on it. i didn't say it was my only guitar, but it's certainly going to have it's uses. i like many styles of music, especially those that combine other styles.

As for fingerpicking, you can use that in any style on any guitar. Do you normaly limit yourself?

This guitar does have a truss rod, but i don't see how that would help things, unless you can elaborate.

[S~R~O]

I take it that Evil Hippy does not like Nylon stringed guitars:eek:

I would say take it to a Guitar Tech/Luthier and have it checked out....Set up it just night need a set up...

I mean None of us can fix it over the Phone Dag~nab~it:rolleyes: as much as we'd like to.....

is it Fret buzzing
is something in side the Guitar,if there is just pull it out..
them dang Trolls like to hide there ole socks in there...

How about a more detailed description of what is happenig...
Play more than a Cm chord....is there new strings on it

did it do it when you 1st got it,or did it start after being in the cold on the way home
as a Cat gotten in it:D

[coreopsisjay]

Thanks SteveO,

Yeah, i don't know what to say about it. There's nothing loose, and no fret buzz. I'm wondering if maybe a crack somewhere would cause this.

But Yeah, the strings are new maybe thats all it is. I hope.

[likkafella]

Evilhippy, sorry man but this is the biggest nonsense I've ever heard. If there is one type of guitar that is extremely suitable for fingerpicking it's classical guitars. Due to their wide necks and the lower tension on the strings. Fact is that a lot of popular acoustic guitar players play steel strings guitars, Tommy Emmanuel for instance. Classical guitars are usually played by classical players however that doesn't mean you have to play classical music on them. Just listen to Muriel Anderson (I have a dvd of her picking some mean bluegrass on a classical), Chet Atkins, Jerry Reed or Buster B Jones. Sting also uses a classical on his acoustic songs.
I love the warm sound of a nylon stringed guitar.

Not sure whether classicals have truss rods actually as the tension is much lower.

coreopsisjay, if the spot bothers you, just go back to the guitar store. It's easy as that. Don't play around it.

[Carle]

There are a lot of big name players that prefer nylon strings to steel because they are easier on your fingers. There are nylon string guitars that have a narrower neck than a classical.

But back to the strange tone. Stan Werbin of Elderly Instruments told me that some classical guitars have what is called Wolf tones. One or more notes on the neck will make a wild harmonic tone. That may be what you have. The subject came up about my guitar when I was searching it's history. He said some of the L20's had Wolf tones. Thank goodness mine didn't .

[USian Pie]

A "wolf" tone is a possibility and a worst-case scenario. As I understand it, such a tone is caused when the whole guitar has a natural resonance at the same frequency as an actual pitch on the neck.

The first thing I'd be curious about is whether the same thing happens if you play the same note on other strings. What about the fifth string 10th fret?

Another thing to definitely check is for a loose component that is vibrating sympathetically with the note. I've had a few cases where, for example, a wire from the saddle transducer was laying against a brace. Whenever I played a certain note, the wire would vibrate against the brace and create a really obnoxious sound. I've had the same thing happen with loose truss rod covers and straplock parts -- a weird buzz when I played certain notes.

[Redsweater]

Fret buzzing or wolf tone as said aboce. just corroborating

[coreopsisjay]

OMG! You guys nailed it. I did a search on wolf tone... interesting stuff. unfortunately the symptoms fit my problem to a T. They say it happens mostly around G... rite where mine happens. The sound and vibration is much more prominent, and low... does'nt flow at all with other notes.

USian Pie you're rite it also happens on the 5th string/10th fret, and the open G. I don't know how I missed those befor. The other Gs are fine though.

The bad news is that it's in the construction of the guitar. I don't think it's repairable. I only paid $450 for it but I think I'd be better off looking for something else. I'll definately check out the wires first though (there's a fishman installed).

Thanks for your help!

[coreopsisjay]

I did a little test. If i change the tuning of the 4th string, the 5th fret becomes clear and the awful sound follows the G to a new location. I'm pretty sure it's the wolf.

[Carle]

After my discussion with Stan about the Wolf tones everytime I play a guitar that I like I start on the first string and fret every note up the neck on all six strings. I listen for any strange or different sound. I have yet to find a guitar with Wolf tone yet but I know they are out there as we have seen from yours. Amazing little instruments these guitars, aren't they!

[FingerBone Bill]

I've heard plenty of discussions about wolf tones on guitars before. Opinions vary but most informed opinion says that a guitar doesn't/cannot have wolf notes.

I don't know, all I can say is that I've never heard one on a guitar, yet all violins have them to some degree.

What it does sound like you are getting is some sort of sympathetic vibration at a certain note.

I suggest you check for loose or cracked bracing. Good luck, nailing that sort of thing down can be hard. Try taking most of the strings off except for the offending one and feel around inside the soundbox to see if pressing on any of the braces stops the sound.