Members solitaire Posted March 14, 2005 Members Share Posted March 14, 2005 Originally posted by Jerry NT To me, a smokey sound from a sax conjures up a smokey jazz club in the Big Apple (in an old time movie.) Oh, I thought we were talking fine wines. Though smoke is not a common comparison with wines, it applies better on Scotch, though I don't drink that stuff my-self What I'm talking about is an accepted consensus as to what is what. A while ago I fear I dissuaded a Brit from buying a Maple bodied Parlour (without having played one myself), by pointing out the obvious: hard tonewood + small body = bright and harsh.I still think variables is the way to go. One variable could actually be called "Smokey". By synthetically producing an artificial sound you could just tweak away, push "search for match" and the computer will find the instrument closest to your preference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members d03nut Posted March 14, 2005 Members Share Posted March 14, 2005 just to emphasize my point: a listing and discussion of various terms like bright (or it's opposite) will help only if we have actual sound clips for reference, for example an acoustic guitar part -preferrably one that is more or less familiar to most, i.e. from a famous tune. Next step is to gather votes on how people describe that sound. Once you hear what the majority refers to as "bright" then it's easier to compare that sound to not only your own perception of that tone but also to the language you choose in describing it and so on and so on..... Of course, all IMveryHO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Jeremy M Posted March 15, 2005 Members Share Posted March 15, 2005 The mandolin kinda confuses things. I agree with you there. Much of the guitar is drowned out by the mandolin. But, it's the only CD I know of featuring different guitars in one place not amped up. Carvin has something like what everyone is hinting at for their Cobalts--I think it's the Soundroom, but the amps turn each guitar's tone into something really homogenous to me. Seymour Duncan has exactly what's needed on their website. It would be cool if, for example, Martin did something similar and had a sound clip of each guitar offered on their site. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members JasmineTea Posted March 15, 2005 Members Share Posted March 15, 2005 ..Holy Smokes! You guys went nuts with this thread while I was gone! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members JasmineTea Posted March 16, 2005 Members Share Posted March 16, 2005 They both look pretty good, but you would need a mic and a spectrum analizer to hear the body of the guitar(don't ask me what a "spectrum analizer" is) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members d03nut Posted March 16, 2005 Members Share Posted March 16, 2005 My language skills fail me, I so can't get my point across. Why do we need all this "controlled environment" stuff at all? More importantly, how much time is needed to run down a list of adjectives, pick the one you're looking for and then listen to it's related sound clip? You want bright? This is what the majority of people associate with brightness. Doesn't take a lot of time. Woody.......Sound clip Muddy.......Sound clip Complex.... Rich....... Trebly.... Punchy..... Etc.... Don't explain them to me (or how they were recorded). Just give me the sound (as voted on by the majority). I'll draw my own conclusions. Peace. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members JasmineTea Posted March 16, 2005 Members Share Posted March 16, 2005 d03nut, even if there was a reference, people still wanna hear THE guitar. ThisLINK has kind of a good idea, check it out. I'll still encourage you and Tioga to go for it though. GO FOR IT! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Jerry NT Posted March 16, 2005 Author Members Share Posted March 16, 2005 Originally posted by JasmineTea ..Holy Smokes! You guys went nuts with this thread while I was gone!Didn't know what I had done when I posed the question.Yeah, you would have to spend hours finding out what the sonic signature meant before it did you any good. The very idea of the sonic signature of a mic would be to assure you that it is as close to the original sound as is possible. It reproduces sound. A guitar is something that produces sound. Apples to oranges.The best way to choose a guitar is by playing it. And then you have to take strings and setup into account (both can affect tone.) And an acoustic changes with time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members LDF Posted March 16, 2005 Members Share Posted March 16, 2005 Has anyone considered that another factor in how we describe sound might be the "feel" of the guitar. Specifically the playability, fingerboard material and the strings that are on the instrument at the time you play it. I would surmise that on a subconcious level the feel and even look of a guitar affects the words we use to describe its sound. This is why I tend to describe guitars with good fast action as velvety and smooth regardless of their tone (as long as it's not horrible). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Jerry NT Posted March 16, 2005 Author Members Share Posted March 16, 2005 Originally posted by JasmineTea (don't ask me what a "spectrum analizer" is)[ I used to use and repair spectrum analyzers.A spectrum analyzer is a display which displays gain versus frequency. So at a certain frequency, the guitar would amplify (a guitars body is an non-electronic amplifier) certain frequencies differently then other frequencies.It also analyzes the microphone as was stated above, but modern analyzers can subract the microphone's response. What does this mean to us? Probably not much, unless you had a standard to compare it. If you had the "perfect" guitar with "sonic signatures" taken when the different strings were picked at different places on the fret board then perhaps you could try to develop instruments that gave the same "sonic signatures". (A difficult task considering the nature of wood.)Now, where do you find this "perfect" guitar? (Different things to different people.) And do we want every guitar to sound exactly the same, even if we could do it?And what happens when the wood ages?The signature by itself doesn't tell me whether the guitar sounds good. The only way to tell would be to compare it to one that you know you like. You know, having to play a guitar to see if you like it ain't so bad. I kinda enjoy it myself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members JasmineTea Posted March 16, 2005 Members Share Posted March 16, 2005 "subtract the microphones response" -that makes it a little less impossible. But I do think it would be interesting to hear two guitars of different woods, with "identical" sonic sigs, I mean, same bass, mid, treb volume...Although the workmanship factor.............It's impossible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Jerry NT Posted March 16, 2005 Author Members Share Posted March 16, 2005 Originally posted by JasmineTea " THE perfect guitar, rather a means to know a bit more about a guitar when buying. That's why I put "perfect" in parenthesis. I probably should have used the word "standard". (In the world of electronics and QC, a standard is a chosen reference that you measure other things against. For instance, the US government defines what an inch and the Bureau of Standards makes blocks of metal that we use as standards in calibrating calipers and such.) In other words, unless you know the signature of what you want, how could you know which signature is any good?For instance, lets say you want that "Gibson" sound. You would have to have a pattern of the particular Gibson you liked to set up beside the pattern of the guitar you are considering. Does the signal peak at the same places the "standard" does?Then it could give you an idea of what the one you're considering sounds like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members solitaire Posted March 16, 2005 Members Share Posted March 16, 2005 Originally posted by JasmineTea They both look pretty good, but you would need a mic and a spectrum analizer to hear the body of the guitar(don't ask me what a "spectrum analizer" is)I've asked the same question: what is an anal-yser? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members JasmineTea Posted March 17, 2005 Members Share Posted March 17, 2005 Originally posted by solitaire I've asked the same question: what is an anal-yser? Ha..your in a good mood tonight! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Jerry NT Posted March 17, 2005 Author Members Share Posted March 17, 2005 Originally posted by solitaire I've asked the same question: what is an anal-yser? You'll find out the first time they decide to run a colonoscopy on you.That would be an anal-yzer.Fortunately, there was no blood in my stool. Those poor guys that had to drink that stuff and all the rest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members JasmineTea Posted March 17, 2005 Members Share Posted March 17, 2005 Originally posted by Jerry NT You'll find out the first time they decide to run a colonoscopy on you.That would be an anal-yzer.Fortunately, there was no blood in my stool. Those poor guys that had to drink that stuff and all the rest. Mine came out OK...I slept through the whole thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members d03nut Posted March 18, 2005 Members Share Posted March 18, 2005 I hate to have to paraphrase, but indeed to have a common lexicon me thinks "it takes a village", i.e. more like-minded forumites. Because even though I believe that reaching some sort of concensus is not that difficult, it will take time, effort and technical know-how to achieve our goal (being an engineer is obviously a start)........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members d03nut Posted March 19, 2005 Members Share Posted March 19, 2005 Tioga_man, thanks for the link. But, and there's always a but, basically my computer is no more than a glorified typewriter, which crashes every 5 minutes. So maybe you can fill me in on what Dave has to say in a small paragraph..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members d03nut Posted March 19, 2005 Members Share Posted March 19, 2005 Lets just say that my computer predates, oh, how shall I put this......acoustic guitars. Yeah, so the only thing that'll help is a new one. Which, by the way, I'm trying to get in the next couple of months. That said, it's good of you to share what Dave's been up to. And obviously, kudos to Dave for his dedication to our cause. Now, I just hope that the proverbial (toneWORD) ball is in someone's court....... P.S. I would hang on to those soundclips for a little while. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members JasmineTea Posted March 19, 2005 Members Share Posted March 19, 2005 You can start a thread with a survey. Terry Allen Hall has one up right now. You could do one toneWORD per thread. Record the results in a note-pad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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