Members Rock Martyr Posted March 8, 2007 Members Share Posted March 8, 2007 Hey guys, Just got my Guild GAD-50E yesterday. Tuned her up and played a few chords with the factory strings...sounded pretty good! No buzzes, etc. I decided to take off the factory strings and put some of my favorite strings on... ...The bone nut fell off into my hand. I was a bit disappointed. I noticed they only used a small spot of glue. I glued it back on using Elmer's white glue...at the recommendation of a site I found. Is this okay? I stayed away from super glue...although I do have some on hand. Put the new strings on and let the nut sit for awhile. I brought the strings up to pitch and played a few chords. Buzzes all over. Is this because of the nut, or because when I took the factory strings off the neck settled? The action is fairly low. Perhaps it needs a twist of the truss rod? Also, I checked on the Guild website. It came with 12's on it. I replaced the strings with the same gauge... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Freeman Keller Posted March 8, 2007 Members Share Posted March 8, 2007 One or two tiny drops of either white or super glue is correct - basically just holds it in position and you want to be able to wack it loose. Before you do anything else, are the ball ends of all of the strings pulled up tight against the bridgeplate? Loosen the strings, loosen the pins and make sure. Then, if it still buzzes figure out where. "all over" doesn't work - I'd like to know where (body, fret, which one, which string9s), headstock) if it happens fretted, open, both, etc. But check those balls first and don't touch the truss rod. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Rock Martyr Posted March 8, 2007 Author Members Share Posted March 8, 2007 I checked the ball ends and they were flush to the plate. When I say all over I mean that all of the strings are buzzing when played open. From what I can tell it's around the 3rd fret, and in various places up the neck, when fretting. I can calm the buzzing if I strum lighter than usual. I double checked on the string gauge it shipped with before I put D'addario EJ16s on. When looking down the neck from the headstock it looks pretty darn straight. I glued the nut into place with 2 drops of glue. It was shipped from Nevada to Georgia. I'm sure it took a few bumps in the process. Thanks for replying. Hope I can figure it out before I resort to adjusting the truss rod. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Freeman Keller Posted March 8, 2007 Members Share Posted March 8, 2007 Please run thru the checks in the Sick Guitar sticky and write down all the measurements. Something has changed and just restringing it should not have caused that (just a rough count, during the great string test I changed them about 40 times in two weeks w/o a buzz anywhere). I'm concerned that maybe you didn't get the nut in the same (it might have been higher before). Unfretted strings buzzing around 3 is indicative of nut slots too low. However buzzing in the lower frets while fretted is indicative of a very flat neck - it is possible that you do need to add a little relief. I guess a really flat neck (zero relief) could cause both but I can't see that resulting from just changing strings. Also, since you bought it has it been exposed to particulary dry environment for a few days or gone through radical temperature swings? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Dan Hall Posted March 8, 2007 Members Share Posted March 8, 2007 I checked the ball ends and they were flush to the plate. When I say all over I mean that all of the strings are buzzing when played open. From what I can tell it's around the 3rd fret, and in various places up the neck, when fretting. I can calm the buzzing if I strum lighter than usual. I double checked on the string gauge it shipped with before I put D'addario EJ16s on. When looking down the neck from the headstock it looks pretty darn straight. I glued the nut into place with 2 drops of glue. It was shipped from Nevada to Georgia. I'm sure it took a few bumps in the process.Thanks for replying. Hope I can figure it out before I resort to adjusting the truss rod. I don't mean to be mean spirited here, just a thought, are you sure you brought it back up to tune? A guy can be an octave low without being all that dumb. Really. Don't ask. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Rock Martyr Posted March 9, 2007 Author Members Share Posted March 9, 2007 Freeman- I received the guitar yesterday around 7pm. I don't think I've had it long enough for it to adjust to the climate here? It was in the first hour of having the guitar that I decided to put different strings on (the nut fell off, etc). I will check out that sticky and get back to you. Your suggestion on the nut possibly being lower now seems logical. After I placed the drops of glue into the slot I placed the nut carefully and moved it from side to side to see where it would seat. There wasn't even enough glue residue on the nut, or in the slot, to warrant cleaning it off before re-gluing. I appreciate your help! Dan- Yes, up to standard pitch, EADGBE, using an electronic tuner. EDIT: Of all the open strings, the D string is the most offensive when it buzzes. Here are some pictures I took after reading the sticky on sick guitars. Have yet to do the measurements. Picture 1 shows the nut after I re-glued it. Picture 2 was something I noticed...is it normal to have that much space around the truss rod?? Picture 3, for fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Freeman Keller Posted March 9, 2007 Members Share Posted March 9, 2007 First pic looks pretty normal - put a capo on at 2 and you should just barely clear 1. The truss rod adjuster looks pretty normal too. It sticks out of the neck and goes up to that brace to adjust it, what you are seeing is just the nut on the end. Get those relief measurements - the business card thing is good enough (zero cards = bad, one card = good, two = OK, three = bad), if the strings touch the 6th fret when you fret at 1 and 12 = very bad. I'll check back tomorrow morning, then I'm off skiing for 10 days. Lets get this figured out. edit to add, no chance of any of those wires or anything rattling around inside? UST loose when you restrung? Just a long shot but I do hear of vibrating battery holders and stuff like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Rock Martyr Posted March 9, 2007 Author Members Share Posted March 9, 2007 I was able to perform 2 steps of the diagnostics. I'll need to get a measurement tool to finish the rest. When I placed the capo on the 2nd fret to check the nut, there was absolutely no space between the 1st fret and the string. None. I squinted and tried my best to see something. I pushed down on the string to see if it would move...no movement. When I capoed the 1st fret and held down the 12th fret to do the business card/neck relief test I could barely get one card between the 6th fret and the E string. The string raised when I slid it underneath. Hope that helps. It sounds like the neck needs a little relief? Thank you for your help,Richard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Dave W. Posted March 9, 2007 Members Share Posted March 9, 2007 Before you do anything to the relief, you need to get the nut height correct. The only quick thing you can do is to shim the nut until you get some clearance. Temporarily you could use strips of index card and paper until you find out how much you need to add. After that you will either have to get a shim made from something really hard, like ebony, or have a new nut made. Zero space at the first fret could actually be negative space. A few thousandths here can make a big difference in the first four or five frets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Freeman Keller Posted March 9, 2007 Members Share Posted March 9, 2007 Dave is completely correct here (and this is why we go thru the steps in this order). I like the nut so when the capo is on at 2 I can just tap the string over the 1st fret and feel it move down a touch the fret (my bad old eyes have trouble seeing the gap sometimes but it needs to be there). If you have a set of automotive feeler gauges a gap of maybe 0.016 on the high E and 0.020 on the low is pretty good, but you need some gap. Adjusting the relief won't make any difference in this - relief is just the bow of the neck between the 1st and 12th frets. It sounds like you have a little, which is OK - the business card is about 0.010 (I measured several) - my preference is somewhere around "a half a business card" What I am guessing is that because your nut was loose, it was somehow a little higher than it is now. Try knocking it out with a plastic hammer or something (the reason you only use on or two drops of glue) and shimming it with a piece of your business card. Hold it in place while you string up (don't use any glue now) and check the first fret clearance. See if the buzz goes away. If it does you have three choices - 1) best, take the guitar back and have the nut set up correctly . That really means a new one. Since it is new, a good shop should be willing to do this and I think should be part of every new guitar purchase. At this time get the nut, relief and action where YOU want them. 2) you can permanently shim it. That is kind of a mickey mouse fix. 3) you can fill the nut slots with baking soda and superglue (or if it is bone, powered bone and superglue) and recut the nut slots. This takes special tools and is sort of mickey too. Good luck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Dave W. Posted March 9, 2007 Members Share Posted March 9, 2007 Freeman is right, this is a new guitar, and a nice one too. Nut fixes are mickey mouse, but you are probably going to have to send the guitar back and get it swapped or demand a new nut. Somebody somewhere in the process will probably want to shim it to save cost. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members johbren Posted March 10, 2007 Members Share Posted March 10, 2007 I wonder if you might have put on a lighter gauge string on it than what was on it when you got it. There fore its not putting as much tension on the neck. If it were me id try about a quarter turn counter closckwise on the truss rod and see what happens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Rock Martyr Posted March 10, 2007 Author Members Share Posted March 10, 2007 I'm going to take it to the best luthier we have in town, because it seems like we're crossing into too-complex-for-me territory. I will, however, print out this thread and show him what everyone has said so far to see if he is on the same page. Hopefully, he won't try any funny business, or temporary fixes to get an easy $50 out of me... I'll let you know how it turns out. R Johbren- I put the same gauge back on... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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