ma & pa shop leaves me confused

[andy thompson]

Got some honest advice from my local shop which was not what I was expecting. SORRY FOR SAME OLD SCENE but I have been looking forward to putting a new bone nut and saddle brass or bone pins for the top three and mahogany or rosewood for E A D on my FG 403 for ages I spend the week up the road kipping in my van while at work and come home to noodle at weekend this little thought of improvement has kept me going for months but he told me not to bother AS IT WONT BE OF BENEFIT, I even ordered some DR Sunbeams (11) as the finishing touch then he goes and tells me because its not wound all makes ssssound the same (sorry I always stutter when Im agitated) Im not mad at him for being honest and thoughtful enough to try and save me money just thought Id cured my gas I dont deseve a ll6 yet what do i do TAKE THE ADVICE OF A GENUINE GUY or what confused and in the sticks:

[Galabar]

Got some honest advice from my local shop which was not what I was expecting. SORRY FOR SAME OLD SCENE but I have been looking forward to putting a new bone nut and saddle brass or bone pins for the top three and mahogany or rosewood for E A D on my FG 403 for ages I spend the week up the road kipping in my van while at work and come home to noodle at weekend this little thought of improvement has kept me going for months but he told me not to bother AS IT WONT BE OF BENEFIT, I even ordered some DR Sunbeams (11) as the finishing touch then he goes and tells me because its not wound all makes ssssound the same (sorry I always stutter when Im agitated) Im not mad at him for being honest and thoughtful enough to try and save me money just thought Id cured my gas I dont deseve a ll6 yet what do i do TAKE THE ADVICE OF A GENUINE GUY or what confused and in the sticks:

Hi Andy,

What is "kipping" (I'm guessing it is sleeping in your van)? Also, could you add some punctuation?* Not a big deal, but it is a little difficult to read your post.


* Please forgive me if you were translating from Latin.

[Brokepick]

a bone nut and saddle and brass pins will help a laminate guitar some why put brass pins on only three strings I dont know what kipping is I think he told you wrong 11 DR sunbeams won't help either I think it is wound ll6 is nice he doesnt think they will help its his opinion I dont know what you should do I im confused too I cant understand you your sentences all run together

[andy thompson]

Yeah , sorry just confused. I think I rambled away too much sorry. You are right kipping is sleeping but in a temporary way like dossing, did like your reply subtle

[Galabar]

a bone nut and saddle and brass pins will help a laminate guitar some why put brass pins on only three strings I dont know what kipping is I think he told you wrong 11 DR sunbeams won't help either I think it is wound ll6 is nice he doesnt think they will help its his opinion I dont know what you should do I im confused too I cant understand you your sentences all run together

 

 

Ok, you just did this to get my goat (no pun intended). :poke:

[Guitarplay]

Got some honest advice from my local shop which was not what I was expecting. SORRY FOR SAME OLD SCENE but I have been looking forward to putting a new bone nut and saddle brass or bone pins for the top three and mahogany or rosewood for E A D on my FG 403 for ages I spend the week up the road kipping in my van while at work and come home to noodle at weekend this little thought of improvement has kept me going for months but he told me not to bother AS IT WONT BE OF BENEFIT, I even ordered some DR Sunbeams (11) as the finishing touch then he goes and tells me because its not wound all makes ssssound the same (sorry I always stutter when Im agitated) Im not mad at him for being honest and thoughtful enough to try and save me money just thought Id cured my gas I dont deseve a ll6 yet what do i do TAKE THE ADVICE OF A GENUINE GUY or what confused and in the sticks:

 

 

 

ENGLISH MOTHERF#$KER! DO YOU SPEAK IT?

 

 

 

sorry, i could not resist posting that.

[andy thompson]

Apparently not. I think I got a little carried away, thought, in my ignorance that rosewood or mahogany would enhance the bass and brass or bone might enhance treble, also the differance in brass and wood for the mids might give better seperation. I dont have a problem with the bass I just want to colour the treble if that makes sense:idea:

[RizinRico]

there is only one way to know for sure if it will improve your tone...do it already and let us know

[andy thompson]

excellant, even if it doesnt we have still learnt something, think I will as I prefer organic materials anyway, thanks for your clear thinking, something I appear to be lacking tonight.

[Brokepick]

I own a laminate Yamaha, and I can attest to the fact that brass bridge pins make a noticeable difference in the guitar's tone, an improvement IMHO. Whether you will like the change or not is something I can't answer. I don't think that individual pins will make an individual difference on each string, but who knows? Try it.

 

As far as the bone nut and saddle, I think that anything there is an improvement over plastic.

[andy thompson]

See I can make sense sometimes, sorry for the earlier rant but your reply made me smile

[Scodiddly]

It's probably going to be difficult to buy the brass pins in anything but a set of six, so why not fool around and try different combinations? If you play traditional fingerpicking style then you're probably using the lower vs. upper strings differently anyway.

 

But the guy at the store told you not to bother? Man, that's like the server at a bar not bothering to ask if you want another beer. It's one thing to try to hard sell something you wouldn't want, but I think selling stuff that may or may not help isn't ethically bad.

[guitarcapo]

My opinion:

 

brass pins add weight to the bridge. Nothing more. This usually will increase the bass a bit by lowering the resonant frequency of the top by increasing the inertia of the top. You might hear a little more "punch" to the notes. You really can't control this by using brass pins on some strings and not others. All you really are doing is adding less weight. For what it's worth maybe taping a few pennies firmly to the bridge would have the same effect. I suggest replacing ALL the pins. If you like the change, keep it. If you don't (or don't hear a difference) don't bother.

 

Now different saddles DO create a difference in sound. Harder materials like brass will accentuate highs and sustain...but maybe will create a sound described as "tinny" Softer materials like plastic will give you more mids and bass. Personally I like elephant ivory or bone for saddles.

 

Changing nut material doesn't change sound. If it did you'd hear a difference in tone between an open plucked string and a fretted one. But you don't even though the fret is METAL and the nut is way different. That's because

the nut acts as a NODAL POINT. It also explains why a glass slide and a brass slide sound pretty much the same in tone on a given guitar...just different handling because of weight and dimensions.

 

Saddles transmit vibrations to the soundboard. Nuts don't function that way. Which is why different saddle materials effect tone but nuts don't.

[andy thompson]

It's probably going to be difficult to buy the brass pins in anything but a set of six, so why not fool around and try different combinations? If you play traditional fingerpicking style then you're probably using the lower vs. upper strings differently anyway. But the guy at the store told you not to bother? Man, that's like the server at a bar not bothering to ask if you want another beer. It's one thing to try to hard sell something you wouldn't want, but I think selling stuff that may or may not help isn't ethically bad.

 

 

Yeah I think Im going to compose threads before I write in future. ``````````He was being honest not indifferant, he would do it but didnt think it worth my while, sorry if I gave that impression. Its just that no one else understands around here and it all came out at once, I want the treble to sound....... well orange, I want them to glow, not sound tinny.

[Gary Palmer]

Which brand and type of guitar do you have? It may help identify the type of sound you have and enable someone to gauge a way of altering it's output toward something you'll prefer.

[andy thompson]

Which brand and type of guitar do you have? It may help identify the type of sound you have and enable someone to gauge a way of altering it's output toward something you'll prefer.

Yamaha FG 403 ms solid spruce top dreadnaught, with 12 elixirs, I know Im to blame a lot even so..... I want the trebles to sound mournful at times yet warm, cant put my finger on it. Spend time listening to Bert Jansch, Richard Thompson Declan Sinott

[Gary Palmer]

Yamaha FG 403 ms solid spruce top dreadnaught, with 12 elixirs, I know Im to blame a lot even so..... I want the trebles to sound mournful at times yet warm, cant put my finger on it. Spend time listening to Bert Jansch, Richard Thompson Declan Sinott

Silk and steels strings immediately spring to mind, if your after a slightly subdued tone, but you can also enhance output by varying the way you play/attack the strings and via picking-hand placement closer to the fingerboard.

Bare skin instead of nails or picks.

I'd try varying technique a little more and then strings, before moving onto modifying your guitar.

[andy thompson]

Silk and steels strings immediately spring to mind, if your after a slightly subdued tone, but you can also enhance output by varying the way you play/attack the strings and via picking-hand placement closer to the fingerboard. Bare skin instead of nails of picks. I'd try varying technique a little more and then strings, before moving onto modifying your guitar.

Silk and steels? who makes these. Bare skin, ok if you say so, although the best tone Ive got so far has been with my nail level with the string before plucking thanks

[babablowfish]

My opinion: brass pins add weight to the bridge. Nothing more. This usually will increase the bass a bit by lowering the resonant frequency of the top by increasing the inertia of the top. You might hear a little more "punch" to the notes. You really can't control this by using brass pins on some strings and not others. All you really are doing is adding less weight. For what it's worth maybe taping a few pennies firmly to the bridge would have the same effect. I suggest replacing ALL the pins. If you like the change, keep it. If you don't (or don't hear a difference) don't bother. Now different saddles DO create a difference in sound. Harder materials like brass will accentuate highs and sustain...but maybe will create a sound described as "tinny" Softer materials like plastic will give you more mids and bass. Personally I like elephant ivory or bone for saddles. Changing nut material doesn't change sound. If it did you'd hear a difference in tone between an open plucked string and a fretted one. But you don't even though the fret is METAL and the nut is way different. That's because the nut acts as a NODAL POINT. It also explains why a glass slide and a brass slide sound pretty much the same in tone on a given guitar...just different handling because of weight and dimensions. Saddles transmit vibrations to the soundboard. Nuts don't function that way. Which is why different saddle materials effect tone but nuts don't.

 

 

Like you said, your opinion. My experience with three guitars - 2 laminate and 1 solid - is that the brass pins increased the brightness and lengthened the sustain. I found the change an improvement on the 3 guitars I used them on.

[Gary Palmer]

Silk and steels? who makes these. Bare skin, ok if you say so, although the best tone Ive got so far has been with my nail level with the string before plucking thanks

D'Addario (Among others). - Google is your friend.

http://store.daddario.com/category/144846

You're the one asking the questions and all I can do is try to offer helpful suggestions.

The reason I'd mentioned bare skin - instead of picks or nails - is that varying your method/technique can help in terms of colouring tonal response and mood. If you find your method works - great - but it always pays to experiment a little with fingerstyle, strumming and tempo.


NB. (For the foreigners out there)

Kip/kipping = sleeping.
Dossing = sleeping rough.