Baby Taylor thoughts.

[SDshirtman]

Wow. I didnt think this thread would get this far. Looks like I opened a can of worms. All I was doing was killing some time bitching about a guitar.

 

Thanks for the suggestions but the baby is going. If my daughter changes her mind about playing I have 5 other acoustics to choose from including 2 full size Taylors which I love.

[timmay8612]

As long as we're on the topic of Taylors, does anybody know anything about older Taylors? A buddy of mine has a Taylor that I helped him pick out with a dread-ish body and a sharp (pointed instead of round) cutaway from the early 90s and it sounds really different than the Taylors I'm used to hearing. Is this just "broken in" or is it construction?

[Goofball Jones]

First and foremost, none of our differing opinion warrants personal attacks. Not sure why you feel the need to personally attack me over it, but apparently I'm a noob, so, who cares right?

 

wasn't attacking you. I was questioning your "Taylors sound terrible" blanket statments.

 

If you've bought a Taylor, I'm sorry if I've offended you. I never meant to insinuate that you made a bad purchase. My goal whenever the word "Taylor" comes out of my mouth is to suggest that folks play many guitars in a given price bracket BEFORE they decide Taylor is the best option. I say this because 9/10 times I do this test, to MY EARS another guitar for the same price usually sounds better. This is what I meant when I said before that a $5000 R. Taylor hand built is a bad buy for me, since I find many other cheaper instruments sound better.

 

As I stated before, I don't own a Taylor. I've played many of them along with people that have bought them. I've never once come across someone in real life that thinks they sound terrible...even from people that don't own one. It's only with the advent of the Internet and forums that I've found people dumping all over a brand of something for no other reason other than just to do it.

 

As far as what I think about people who buy Taylors, I can only assume two things. 1) They hear something I don't, thats cool. 2) They hear the same thing I do, but don't try anything else because of the Taylor brand recognition (what I'm trying to help people avoid). Unfortunately I think many people buy Taylor like people buy Bose surround sound - good marketing and brand reputation with performance that frequently doesn't match the price comparatively speaking.

 

This would make sense if for the fact that so many pros use Taylors. Taylor doesn't have endorsements, so the people using them are doing so because they like what they hear. They could use anything you know. Taylor doesn't do the gimmicky "signature" models (like Martin does) other than a Doyle Dykes model. Now, you could put on your conspiracy-theorist hat and say Taylor really does pay people under the table to use their product, but would someone like a Lindsey Buckingham or whoever really compromise? I don't think they need the cash.

 

So, I'm sorry if I've just dumped all over your new Taylor purchase and you feel bad now, but honestly, if your post count is any reflection of your playing experience/ability, I don't think you need to get your panties in a wad over what I have to say anyway.

 

Again, don't own one. I just will question anyone making blanket statements like that. It's almost as if there's a checklist that people use to make themselves sound like they know what their talking about sometimes. One is "Oh, _______(fill in the blank) sound terrible...I prefer blah blah blah" or my favorite (which you didn't say btw, just throwing this gem out there) "Blah blah blah sounds good and everything, but it doesn't cut through the mix".

 

Alternative! Do a side by side comparison of a $3000 Taylor (new or used) and a similarly priced instrument (new or used) from Collings, Huss & Dalton, Froggy Bottom, Goodall, McPherson, etc. etc. and see which one sounds better. Then talk to me.

 

Okay, talking to you now. Yes, I've done many a side-by-side comparisons. I've tested Taylor to Martin to Collings to H&D to Larravee. The others I'd like to test, but my local guitar shop doesn't carry them. Taylor is right up there with all of them. I think the 814ce is on par as one of the sweetest guitars I've ever played until I picked up a Taylor GA8 or the Martin 000-28ec. I loved the H&D I played, but it was a dreadnought (which is a style I'm not crazy about) and also the $6000 price tag was a bit off-putting. Just something I couldn't ever afford. The Collings OM-42E was also a sweet guitar, but again, out of my price range....at least that one I tested was. Have a friend that has a McPherson, I just didn't get into the shape. Of course, sounded fantastic.

 

So I don't know. The only questionable tone I've ever heard on acoustics come from the lower end...and yes, the Baby Taylor falls into that category. With acoustics, you get what you pay for and that includes Taylor. Taylor is NOT like Bose...but if you feel that it is, if you feel manipulated by them, then there's not much I can tell you otherwise. You're view will always probably be tainted no matter what you hear on a Taylor I think.

[tbry]

wasn't attacking you. I was questioning your "Taylors sound terrible" blanket statments. As I stated before, I don't own a Taylor. I've played many of them along with people that have bought them. I've never once come across someone in real life that thinks they sound terrible...even from people that don't own one. It's only with the advent of the Internet and forums that I've found people dumping all over a brand of something for no other reason other than just to do it. This would make sense if for the fact that so many pros use Taylors. Taylor doesn't have endorsements, so the people using them are doing so because they like what they hear. They could use anything you know. Taylor doesn't do the gimmicky "signature" models (like Martin does) other than a Doyle Dykes model. Now, you could put on your conspiracy-theorist hat and say Taylor really does pay people under the table to use their product, but would someone like a Lindsey Buckingham or whoever really compromise? I don't think they need the cash. Again, don't own one. I just will question anyone making blanket statements like that. It's almost as if there's a checklist that people use to make themselves sound like they know what their talking about sometimes. One is "Oh, _______(fill in the blank) sound terrible...I prefer blah blah blah" or my favorite (which you didn't say btw, just throwing this gem out there) "Blah blah blah sounds good and everything, but it doesn't cut through the mix". Okay, talking to you now. Yes, I've done many a side-by-side comparisons. I've tested Taylor to Martin to Collings to H&D to Larravee. The others I'd like to test, but my local guitar shop doesn't carry them. Taylor is right up there with all of them. I think the 814ce is on par as one of the sweetest guitars I've ever played until I picked up a Taylor GA8 or the Martin 000-28ec. I loved the H&D I played, but it was a dreadnought (which is a style I'm not crazy about) and also the $6000 price tag was a bit off-putting. Just something I couldn't ever afford. The Collings OM-42E was also a sweet guitar, but again, out of my price range....at least that one I tested was. Have a friend that has a McPherson, I just didn't get into the shape. Of course, sounded fantastic. So I don't know. The only questionable tone I've ever heard on acoustics come from the lower end...and yes, the Baby Taylor falls into that category. With acoustics, you get what you pay for and that includes Taylor. Taylor is NOT like Bose...but if you feel that it is, if you feel manipulated by them, then there's not much I can tell you otherwise. You're view will always probably be tainted no matter what you hear on a Taylor I think.

Blanket statement...I think Taylors sound great. Is that any different? Do you want to type a full page in reply to that? You should by your definition. Lay off the guy. He was/is sincere and he is right. You have a burr up in there somewhere.

[Goofball Jones]

Blanket statement ...I think Taylors sound great. Is that any different? Do you want to type a full page in reply to that? You should by your definition. Lay off the guy. He was/is sincere and he is right. You have a burr up in there somewhere.

 

I said that every one that I've played sounded great...to me. And that's a true statement. I didn't say "Taylors sound great" like his "Taylors sound terrible". Plus, he went on to question people's judgment and wanted to "warn them" before they make a mistake. Seriously?

 

And yeah, I do have burr up my ass. I'm fighting back to the "internet {censored} fest" that happens. I know, I'm fighting an uphill battle and "welcome to the Intertubes", right? . But as I said I never encountered all the "oh, this Taylor or Martin or Gibson or Fender SUCKS" so much before the advent of Internet forums like HC. If you {censored} all over a brand for no other reason than to just do it, then prepare to be questioned. If you stand by your convictions, so be it. Say it loud, say it proud. He has the right to say them just as I have the right to question them. Yes?

[timmay8612]

I said that every one that I've played sounded great...to me. And that's a true statement. I didn't say "Taylors sound great" like his "Taylors sound terrible". Plus, he went on to question people's judgment and wanted to "warn them" before they make a mistake. Seriously? And yeah, I do have burr up my ass. I'm fighting back to the "internet {censored} fest" that happens. I know, I'm fighting an uphill battle and "welcome to the Intertubes", right? . But as I said I never encountered all the "oh, this Taylor or Martin or Gibson or Fender SUCKS" so much before the advent of Internet forums like HC. If you {censored} all over a brand for no other reason than to just do it, then prepare to be questioned. If you stand by your convictions, so be it. Say it loud, say it proud. He has the right to say them just as I have the right to question them. Yes?

I just reread my posts. Not once did I say Taylors sound bad. I said they don't sound good enough to me to justify the cost. There are hundreds of guitars that sound FAR WORSE than any Taylor I've played.

As for professionals who play Taylors, thereby justifying their inherent "goodness", that argument is a great example of the bandwagoning fallacy. http://www.fallacyfiles.org/bandwagn.html To say Taylors can't be bad because pros play them says nothing about the merit of the product.

Whether you have attacked me personally or not, I'm pretty sure you insinuated (rather openly) I was a "noob". All you have to do is read about the guidelines on other forums (amps for instance) to know that word carries some pretty heavy connotations.

Most of all, I think you're a little overly ambitious in feeling the need to "battle" me, since my basic message is for guitarists to try everything before they buy and let their ears decide if a Taylor is really the one for them. Seems to me you've got a hot head, quickly took offense because my general distaste for Taylors is unpopular around here, and decided to retaliate with little reason.

[Goofball Jones]

I just reread my posts. Not once did I say Taylors sound bad. I said they don't sound good enough to me to justify the cost. There are hundreds of guitars that sound FAR WORSE than any Taylor I've played. As for professionals who play Taylors, thereby justifying their inherent "goodness", that argument is a great example of the bandwagoning fallacy. http://www.fallacyfiles.org/bandwagn.html To say Taylors can't be bad because pros play them says nothing about the merit of the product. Whether you have attacked me personally or not, I'm pretty sure you insinuated (rather openly) I was a "noob". All you have to do is read about the guidelines on other forums (amps for instance) to know that word carries some pretty heavy connotations. Most of all, I think you're a little overly ambitious in feeling the need to "battle" me, since my basic message is for guitarists to try everything before they buy and let their ears decide if a Taylor is really the one for them. Seems to me you've got a hot head, quickly took offense because my general distaste for Taylors is unpopular around here, and decided to retaliate with little reason.

Fair enough. You've stated your position in a more specific manner and have shown you're not just a brand-troll. As to me attacking you, I apologize. You've explained what you mean and have kept yourself in a mature, professional manner despite my immature, unprofessional poking. :poke:

[timmay8612]

Thanks for saying so. Glad we got this cleared up.

[gitnoob]

Ah, peace and harmony returns to Harmony Central.

 

Now, STFU NOOBS!

[Goofball Jones]

Ah, peace and harmony returns to Harmony Central. Now, STFU NOOBS!

[guitarcapo]

 

Huh??? Tuning issues and intonation are very much string related on a short scale guitar. You compound the issue by putting lighter gauge strings on it. The tension is now even less than it previously was. You need to go the other way, INCREASE the string gauge to increase tension and make up for the problematic LOW tension caused by the short scale. Alternately, you can tune to higher than standard pitch (INCREASING tension again). Both works. think about what you put out there man...

 

 

You didn't do what I said yet did you? Read my post more carefully. You tune UP to increase the tension again. It's a glorious sound. I'm trying to help you out. Try it. You might like it. If you are having intonation problems just increase the string tension using the lighter strings until the 12th fret harmonic matches the 12th fretted note with the lighter strings. Maybe even try G to G. Rings like a bell. I chimey harp. A fun sound for an different sound recording. Who wants all of their guitars to sound the same anyway?