Members protilius Posted April 16, 2011 Members Share Posted April 16, 2011 Heh all: I've been doing music for longer than I've been working day jobs. Over the last decade, I've polished this craft of mine to a point that its starting to sound as if it came right out of the radio or off of the big screen regarding its quality. Problem is... I feel like despite having a growing list of clients for production services, a diverse portfolio that showcases numerous genres of work, and a generally great sound... Things just aren't coming together like one might expect they could. I'm affiliated closely with Broadjam.com, have worked with a lot of upcoming artists, and have even been nationally licensed... But its getting to a point that its just not enough. The paychecks are minimal, the clients are fleeting, and I can't help but feel as if there's more out there than what's been accomplished thus far. If anyone has the time to check out what we have going on over at the website I've established, perhaps provide some pointers as to what we're doing wrong or could do better, I'd be greatly appreciative. I was once told that if I work hard and keep producing good work that things would come together for me... I feel like I've had some success but not nearly enough to warrant the hefty prices I've paid to keep the ball rolling. Please take a moment to check out the work and just let me know what I could be doing better, production and business sense alike. It would be greatly appreciated. The website I've established is below. Protilius.com Thank you for your time:N.JonesArchive Lead Producerprotilius@gmail.com608-807-9064 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members richardmac Posted April 16, 2011 Members Share Posted April 16, 2011 Please take a moment to check out the work and just let me know what I could be doing better, production and business sense alike. It would be greatly appreciated. I have a suggestion from a business standpoint. Redo your website. It's awful. Pay a pro to do it. If a pro put that up, fire him and hire someone different. Your website is your billboard to the world, and right now the billboard says "We're boring and we don't put any effort into our web design." That's not the message you want to send. Also don't ignore the little and not so little things - Under "News" there's nothing. Under "Guestbook" there's nothing. The first song link is broken. The second one works. The audio production sounds great. The product is fine, the website is not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Rudolf von Hagenwil Posted April 16, 2011 Members Share Posted April 16, 2011 you should sell yourself more as sound designer, composer and producer; make a list of you past clients in a subsite; add a seperate subsite with your studio service and list there your gear, nobody except people who need a studio are interested what gear you use; post more music which have a melody in the traditional sense and some straight forward bubble gum songs; get in contact with advertising agencies; get in contact with people who design booths for fairs; and most important get in contact with movie directors, the regisseur is the person who decides who make the soundtrack for documentary, tv-spot, cinematic films and tv films etc.,; make you music available as payed download, e.g. 10 minutes music $100, and add that you make customized soundtracks for any purpose; get in contact with architects and people who realize exhibitions and events in museums.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members protilius Posted April 16, 2011 Author Members Share Posted April 16, 2011 Richard: Sound advice, I get the template hosted through Broadjam.com, its a quick fix that was provided with the membership I bought to shop music. I agree... It could be a lot shinyer. Any recommendations for someone that could revolutionize what we're doing? Rudolf: I've been plugging away at independent game making sites, movie sites, and documentary sites... but I feel like my rates may be too high. Problem is, that I spend a lot of time working up what I do and like to make at least 15 an hour when pulling out expensive toys that require an education to use them. I do music full time and have pretty much lived off of the same clients for about half a year now. I'd like to expand on that though... I did establish client lists in my albums section under the remix/mastering/engineering albums, but perhaps further elaboration in my bio could really save some time there. I think Richard really nailed it there with the "poor" website design. A lot of your other points were good suggestions. I do write music for tailored purposes but have found it hard to put a price on length of material. I'll spend 40 hours on a remix and charge in the ballpark of $600 to $800 depending on what the client wants and how polished they want it to be. I'd hate to obligate myself to a 1:30 feature film and screw myself by asking for too little to produce from the ground up. What kind of rates would you establish for flat out services? Thank you all for your input and advice:N Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Rudolf von Hagenwil Posted April 16, 2011 Members Share Posted April 16, 2011 most important is that potential commisioner visiting your site hears the music immediately, easy accessible and presented in a cool way, the rest is basically unimportant, this people have no more time then anybody else, one client only ordered the music with me because he live in the next house, and I put the data in his shoes early in the morning before he left to Zürich with the train, he was too lazy to order the music by a composer in Zürich, because the composer in Zürich was on the other end of the town, that guy was the director of the second largest advertising company Young&Rubicam, I made them the tv-spot for about 5 years, easy money of about $3600 production fee per nigh, and later the royalties, they ordered usually about 16:00 PM and wanted the music next morning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members protilius Posted April 16, 2011 Author Members Share Posted April 16, 2011 Rudolf: Whow... Just whow. These are the kind of opportunities I feel like I'm capable of living up to but seem to continually miss out on. I feel at a disadvantage being I'm out in the middle of BF.Washington and haven't owned a car since the wife took everything in the divorce. I've been trying to work up a steady work flow but spend more time with the kids than I do actually working, which is both good and bad, good because the family benefits from it, bad being I'm not making the money I should be. I've been primarily relying on production quality to sell the work, but feel that perhaps it isn't what you do, but who you know regarding the fat paychecks... I do well with melodies, they just happen to be a little lower in the line up is all. One of my better melodic productions was "No Ceilings," recently done for a client out of Boston. http://protilius.com/song/7 That link is sure to change as I produce more work, but the link should be valid for the next week until I upload this coming week's productions. I'm averaging two to three a week these days. I have a lot of work that focuses on melodies as of late, plenty of bridges, changes, and identifiable choruses, its just hard to know who to market to when I'm tackling so many genres. Thank you again for your time and insights. Best:N Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Rudolf von Hagenwil Posted April 16, 2011 Members Share Posted April 16, 2011 I don't even think a website is that important, more important is meeting people who have work for you, simply visit people in their offices amd tell them that you have open time for more work Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members protilius Posted April 16, 2011 Author Members Share Posted April 16, 2011 Solid advice certainly... I tried that in Seattle once a year ago, but I've drastically improved in my craft since then. Perhaps its time to go out again. Maybe I'll get lucky and meet a potential employer on Harmony Central in the meantime right? Regardless... Your ears, insights, and time is surely appreciated. Best: N Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Rudolf von Hagenwil Posted April 16, 2011 Members Share Posted April 16, 2011 N, each time I had nothing to do, the idea came to mind, damn I need work, drove to the next company I knew they need music, walked in and the boss said "oh good you come we need music for this..." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members protilius Posted April 16, 2011 Author Members Share Posted April 16, 2011 Know of any companies I might try? Given... I'm stuck in Washington... But an email never hurts. Best:N Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Rudolf von Hagenwil Posted April 16, 2011 Members Share Posted April 16, 2011 Know of any companies I might try?Best:N not really, I work in Europe and China, and sometimes in Florida, but with some thought out ideas you can get work from anywhere in the world where they have a cable in the house Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members protilius Posted April 16, 2011 Author Members Share Posted April 16, 2011 ROFL... Oddly I have clients in Florida, Boston, LA, and Australia. I know what you mean. Best:N Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Rudolf von Hagenwil Posted April 17, 2011 Members Share Posted April 17, 2011 most movie directors Imake the music for I never meet in person, they call, blah blah me the storyboard into my skull in 15 minutes and I start working Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Rudolf von Hagenwil Posted April 17, 2011 Members Share Posted April 17, 2011 the "trick" is you approach them - they have no clue that you are a genius sitting in a attic waiting for work Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members fatusstratus Posted April 19, 2011 Members Share Posted April 19, 2011 As far as the website- and this ties into what the other guys were saying - it's not just the "style sheet" formatting that's a problem. I think the copy reads poorly. It comes off at different places, pleading and sometimes a little like a "front" stuff like "...and our results are always professional" -- If you are hanging out your professional shingle, that goes without saying. There are those group terms "we" and "our", etc -- but I only see a small bio of one guy. That feels a little like a guy trying to convince people he's an organization. It's OK to be a single professional in an individual practice. Here on the forum you talk about "But its getting to a point that its just not enough. The paychecks are minimal, the clients are fleeting, but on the website you have "Due to the high volume of projects..." -- the 'because we are so damn successful' thing just comes off a little fake. You don't have to justify your business terms by puffing up. The bio (the biz terms shouldn't be on the bio page) talks about "works with numerous artists", "won a number of website song-of-the-month competitions" and "music is featured in several popular national TV network shows and indie films" ...show the audience, don't tell them, list some of these awards accomplishments -- Set the bio up like a clear, verifiable C.V. the photos are pretty much useless and might actually hurt. thee "album cover" artwork doesn't really tell me anything and there's not much if any publication info on those projects, the candids show one guy and not in a working situation...where's the "we"? since there's a "high volume of projects" where are the working shots? The website as it is would set off a lot of red flags for me...it looks like a guy who is trying to get something going, but is trying to sort of inflate his current level of activity and experience. So it can sound like a guy who isn't being completely honest about the situation and then looking for $ up front --I'm noot saying that's your situation, I just don' know what you actual situation is, but that's the impression the website gives me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members protilius Posted April 19, 2011 Author Members Share Posted April 19, 2011 fatusstratus: Thats some really good feedback. Truth is I "am" one guy that collaborates with a team only when called for... I have several go to artists that I look to for solutions when the need arises. The we thing came from another professionals advice. "You work with a lot of people, when you use the word "we", people feel more secure in knowing numerous minds will be collaboratively tackling their projects. Don't be afraid to promote the fact that you run in a circle of professionals." Although I see your points equally... Regarding the client list... I've posted several albums with most of the work I've done professionally since starting this little adventure in freelancing. Although I've since updated the BIO with the very same list (minus specific production titles) after noticing no one seems to notice the albums section and goes right for the bio section. The website is a site hosted by Broadjam.com... But I certainly understand how it may be perceived as a front. I can tell I'll have to invest some money into actually building one. Archive Productions is the name that I went with after spending a lot of time referring to everything as "The Protilius Archive." I never made it official though and didn't register the business... So after reading your words "Its ok to be one guy providing services" I realized that perhaps that was the most valuable lesson I took from your observations. I've got a great product... I know what I'm doing... If you spent any time checking out the work posted I'm sure you'll agree I'm not exactly slopping garage band loops together and calling myself a producer while standing on the shoulders of men greater than myself. And that should count for something... Regarding the song placements and licensing ops... MTV studios picked up a few tracks for their library, had the work thrown into a couple indie games, and was even featured in a few independent films as well... None of which are well known though (save the whole MTV thing, but everyone and their mother thats any good has been picked up by those guys)... So I felt it was better to consolidate it all into a simple statement. That was yet another recommendation made by another professional I consulted about shaping a portfolio. I can see your points though and even tend to agree with most (if not all) of them. I've made some revisions to the website based on your recommendations (and those that came before you) and would surely like to know how you feel about the revisions. I do thank you for taking the time out of your day to aid me in this revamping of image and am surely appreciative. The work speaks for itself... I hope its enough for you to have faith that I'm something worth the time helping out, I know you all must be very busy individuals. Best:N Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Rudolf von Hagenwil Posted April 19, 2011 Members Share Posted April 19, 2011 this is quite a good website of a sounddesigner: http://www.ideeundklang.com/en/index.php "Audio Branding" is the keyword for industrial products and TV-Commercials. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members protilius Posted April 19, 2011 Author Members Share Posted April 19, 2011 And regarding the high turnover of projects... I put out about two to four projects weekly... Some personal... Some client based. All of which are important and take time. The money upfront thing is being I got burned on a $4000 dollar deal at one point after providing services. As far as I'm concerned... I may not be famous... but if you actually compare original mixes to remixes, remasters, and the reinventing of tracks... Its obvious that for the prices I'm charging its worth anyone's time trying to get the most for their money to consider me as an option for their next investment. I hope you don't just judge me based on the website... Try out the work. It may impress you. The results really do speak for themselves. I have clean recordings, orchestration that sounds real, and sound design that doesn't sound like an 80's disco mockup. I'm not entirely convinced a lot of providers out there can say the same. Which is why your advice is all the more important... Half of the battle is selling the image. And as we've established... The website just isn't doing it between presentation and BIO content. I hope the revisions I've made are a step in the right direction. I look forward to your responses and further suggestions. Best:N Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members protilius Posted April 19, 2011 Author Members Share Posted April 19, 2011 Rudolf: Yeah... that is a nice site. Thanks for sharing:) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members richardmac Posted April 19, 2011 Members Share Posted April 19, 2011 As far as the website- and this ties into what the other guys were saying - it's not just the "style sheet" formatting that's a problem. I think the copy reads poorly. It comes off at different places, pleading and sometimes a little like a "front"stuff like "...and our results are always professional" -- If you are hanging out your professional shingle, that goes without saying.There are those group terms "we" and "our", etc -- but I only see a small bio of one guy. That feels a little like a guy trying to convince people he's an organization. It's OK to be a single professional in an individual practice. Here on the forum you talk about "But its getting to a point that its just not enough. The paychecks are minimal, the clients are fleeting, but on the website you have "Due to the high volume of projects..." -- the 'because we are so damn successful' thing just comes off a little fake. You don't have to justify your business terms by puffing up.The bio (the biz terms shouldn't be on the bio page) talks about "works with numerous artists", "won a number of website song-of-the-month competitions" and "music is featured in several popular national TV network shows and indie films" ...show the audience, don't tell them, list some of these awards accomplishments -- Set the bio up like a clear, verifiable C.V.the photos are pretty much useless and might actually hurt. thee "album cover" artwork doesn't really tell me anything and there's not much if any publication info on those projects, the candids show one guy and not in a working situation...where's the "we"? since there's a "high volume of projects" where are the working shots?The website as it is would set off a lot of red flags for me...it looks like a guy who is trying to get something going, but is trying to sort of inflate his current level of activity and experience. So it can sound like a guy who isn't being completely honest about the situation and then looking for $ up front--I'm noot saying that's your situation, I just don' know what you actual situation is, but that's the impression the website gives me. Props. Well said and all true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members protilius Posted April 19, 2011 Author Members Share Posted April 19, 2011 I feel like I just got called a con for having poor communication skills and a {censored}ty website... Oh well. Maybe the music will sell itself next time. Anyhow... I made a lot of revisions based on everyone's feedback. Thanks again for your time and thoughts... I really hope the impressions made here aren't as bad as they appear to be. http://protilius.com/home Best:N Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members protilius Posted April 19, 2011 Author Members Share Posted April 19, 2011 Well... I've been pluging away at the site and made numerous changes. I. New template layout for sleeker feel.II. Updated main "elevator pitch" to reflect the work of the driving force behind Archive, being myself, and kept things simple while selling the services.III. Updated Bio section to actually list the clients I've worked with since going pro. All of which was previously available in the abums sectionIV. Updated main 3 tracks with a) a melodic soundtrack b) an album production/remix for a client c) a remix for a heavy hitter (indaba.com is hosting a remix op for the Tron Legacy soundtrack. I think I did well there... and have a real shot of making the cut based on my competition's efforts thus far.)V. Updated Bio with gear list.VI. Removed useless pictures based on the idea that you want to know who you're working with, not what he can do in photoshop. If anyone has any other suggestions I'm surely open to them. Best:N Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members protilius Posted April 19, 2011 Author Members Share Posted April 19, 2011 Also... Went into my guestbook page and discovered the guestbook doesn't automatically post... Apparently I have to approve comments... Which is a good thing being for every legit comment I had there were twenty or so spam bots selling nude pics and viagara. WTF? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members fatusstratus Posted April 19, 2011 Members Share Posted April 19, 2011 I feel like I just got called a con for having poor communication skills and a {censored}ty website... you'd be wrong See, here's the thing, you aren't advertising to us, you are asking us for feedback ON advertisement, communication and all that, so we have to put on our editor hats...because that's what we're being asked to do. I don't really give a {censored} one way or the other about the success of your operation and I don't have faith in your talent or value. WAIT for the explanation before that offends you. It's sort of my duty to NOT give a {censored} since you asked for editorial opinions. An editor is basically a proxy for the audience, not the writer...an editor has to say "the audience isn't going to get that" or "the audience doesn't care" or "you are assuming the audience is like you are" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members protilius Posted April 19, 2011 Author Members Share Posted April 19, 2011 Understood... You'd think I'd have thicker skin after doing bar management for a few years. I really saw a lot of great points here, I guess when you made a few of them I became concerned that perhaps it was your genuine impression of me despite any of the work or accomplishments made. I can see that you're doing exactly what I asked you to do... and am surely grateful you've taken the time to do so. I know usually I'm pretty busy with my own stuff and typically don't go off helping other people pull together a website or sales pitch very often. So what all of you have done here is exceptional and greatly appreciated.. As stated previously... I've made significant changes to everything and hope it comes off as professional as the work I do does. I know its pretty important and if people don't immediately feel at home with something its all too easy to look someplace else for the very same services. I just wish I could find a way to get music to play on the website right away. I think that was a great suggestion but fear there isn't a template in Broadjam's line up that does that. Thank you again for clarifying and for taking time out of your day to help me effectively sell myself. The last half year has treated me really well but I'm starting to loose steam and really need to start pulling in new clients. My Publishing deals are paying alright but Jenny and I are about to move into a 5 bedroom and I just want to be sure that I have all the resources I can to make it fly. Would hate to end up becoming another one of those american family sob stories where the house gets foreclosed on you know? Getting this website up to snuff and making sure that my pitch is both accurate and compelling is important. Thank you again for your time. I hope the revamps are up to par with what I "should" be doing. Best:N Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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