tour van hunting...buy, lease, trailer, no trailer?

[91rtstealth]

ok...so my band just got incorporated as an LLC so we are looking for a van to get us and our gear around. I've been mainly looking at Ford because they are bulletproof..i've also looked at some older Dodge B series vans because they are a little cheaper..i'm debating between a 15 passenger van (remove the back 2 seats...the band and the gear in one vehicle) or a smaller van and a trailer...

 

what is a good trailer size for a 5 piece band -one standard sized drum kit, fender hot rod deville, acoustic stacked bass cabs and head, 2 keyboards, a keyboard amp, and fender twin reverb amp and some other little miscelanous things...I guess a popular size is 6x10 but I was thinking of trying a 5x8...

 

and do you recommend buying or leasing?

[Dancebass]

Trailer size that works well is the 5x8 but I would skip it if you can. Trailers REALLY slow you down a lot more than you would think. I'm not exactly sure why but it just seems like you make much better time without one.

 

I just bought a 15 passenger and I decided to go with a GMC Savanah. The GMC and the Chevy have a longer wheel base and a horseshoe shaped frame that limits roll-over. Look online to see the concern with roll-over for 15 passengers. It's a problem but only if you're foolish. Most people do not inflate the tires correctly. The back tires get 80 lbs of pressure and the front tires get 50. Most people don't pay attention and put 50 in the back ones as well as the front. The seats in these vans are against the left side of the cab. It leaves a walkway on the right side to get to the back seats. This loads the van unevenly when it's loaded with people. That causes the back left tire to de-tread, the van rolls over and everyone gets decapitated. Decapitation REALLY sucks, so you want to avoid that if possible.

 

If you pull the seats and load the van evenly and keep proper tire pressure, all makes and models are good to go. I still chose the longer wheel base model for a little extra safety. I think they look better as well. The Dodge has so much extra length behind the back wheel, it looks like a death trap!

 

So in short, I would go with the passenger van with seats pulled before using a trailer. Trailers destroy transmissions, slow you down, and make parking a pain. If you go with the van, treat it properly.

 

I got mine off Craig's list for $3500 and it's in good shape. Good luck man.

[91rtstealth]

 

Trailer size that works well is the 5x8 but I would skip it if you can. Trailers REALLY slow you down a lot more than you would think. I'm not exactly sure why but it just seems like you make much better time without one. I just bought a 15 passenger and I decided to go with a GMC Savanah. The GMC and the Chevy have a longer wheel base and a horseshoe shaped frame that limits roll-over. Look online to see the concern with roll-over for 15 passengers. It's a problem but only if you're foolish. Most people do not inflate the tires correctly. The back tires get 80 lbs of pressure and the front tires get 50. Most people don't pay attention and put 50 in the back ones as well as the front. The seats in these vans are against the left side of the cab. It leaves a walkway on the right side to get to the back seats. This loads the van unevenly when it's loaded with people. That causes the back left tire to de-tread, the van rolls over and everyone gets decapitated. Decapitation REALLY sucks, so you want to avoid that if possible. If you pull the seats and load the van evenly and keep proper tire pressure, all makes and models are good to go. I still chose the longer wheel base model for a little extra safety. I think they look better as well. The Dodge has so much extra length behind the back wheel, it looks like a death trap! So in short, I would go with the passenger van with seats pulled before using a trailer. Trailers destroy transmissions, slow you down, and make parking a pain. If you go with the van, treat it properly. I got mine off Craig's list for $3500 and it's in good shape. Good luck man.

 

 

yeah I figured the 5x8 would suffice. I figure we can start with a van and then get a trailer if we feel it is necessary. However...I figure if we get a trailer we can get a sweet conversion van or an suv with 4 wheel drive to pull it..but yeah, trailers are hard on the drivetrain, kill gas, and drag you down...plus..how much is it to insure and register a trailer?

 

I've heard a lot about the roll-over stuff. I"m a motor-head so i'll make sure it's loaded correctly, the tires are inflated right, and the knucklehead behind the wheel doesn't drive like a moron..haha...

 

so are you saying that GM offers a 15 passenger standard AND long wheel base model? I ruled out any GM products immediately because I've worked on plenty of Chevy's and GMC vehicles before and they are very poorly made...the Fords run forever and parts are cheap...Dodge was next in line, with GM last...I just don't trust many GM products...but I guess I can re-consider and look more into them...

 

anyone have any suggestions in terms of buying or leasing? everyone says leasing is good when you have a business because you can write off depreciation expenses or something...

[Dancebass]

I looked into leasing but most offers were a combination of years and mileage. We would have eaten throught the mileage in 6 months, so we ruled it out. Plus the damage that we would have done to the van with load-in, load-out made it a bad choice for us.

 

If you're a gearhead and you know your way around a vehicle just buy used and you should be good to go. Yea, I'm not a GM fan myself but if you look at their 15 passengers you can see how they redesigned them to prevent roll over. We do lots of 3am driving after shows, so I kind of went overboard with the safety angle.

[BlueStrat]

I have a 5 x 8 and it works fine, but it's loaded to the gills. I'd get a 6 x 10 if I could do it again.

 

I do like a trailer, though, pulled behind a crew cab truck or van, because if you're in a place for a couple of days, you can drop the trailer (we use a tongue lock and chain it to a phone or light pole) and drive around without it. Plus, when you get home, you can back it into the garage or park it beside it, unhook it and leave it until the next time.

 

Don't lease- Dave Ramsey is right; it ought to be called 'fleecing', not 'leasing'.

 

The best rig we ever had was a 1-ton cube van with a 15 foot box. roll up gate and a walk board. partitioned a walll 7 feet back from the front (it had a walk-thru cab) and the front 7' had carpet, a paneled wall, a captain's chair I picked up at a wrecking yard, I built bunk beds, we added an entertainment center with a 13" TV, VCR/DVD and video game console, a cooler, and I was going to mount a 5 gallon container underneath with a Clorox bottle upside down and a tube mounted to the back corner wall (with a privacy curtain) going down thru the floor into the container for pissing in. I put a 3' x 1' window in the side, up higher for ventilation and light but privacy. We had a few of those battery powered touch light and it was a great traveling rig for the entire band. All the gear went in the 8' behind the wall. We got that rig for 11k and drove it for 4 years.

[91rtstealth]

 

I have a 5 x 8 and it works fine, but it's loaded to the gills. I'd get a 6 x 10 if I could do it again. I do like a trailer, though, pulled behind a crew cab truck or van, because if you're in a place for a couple of days, you can drop the trailer (we use a tongue lock and chain it to a phone or light pole) and drive around without it. Plus, when you get home, you can back it into the garage or park it beside it, unhook it and leave it until the next time. Don't lease- Dave Ramsey is right; it ought to be called 'fleecing', not 'leasing'. The best rig we ever had was a 1-ton cube van with a 15 foot box. roll up gate and a walk board. partitioned a walll 7 feet back from the front (it had a walk-thru cab) and the front 7' had carpet, a paneled wall, a captain's chair I picked up at a wrecking yard, I built bunk beds, we added an entertainment center with a 13" TV, VCR/DVD and video game console, a cooler, and I was going to mount a 5 gallon container underneath with a Clorox bottle upside down and a tube mounted to the back corner wall (with a privacy curtain) going down thru the floor into the container for pissing in. I put a 3' x 1' window in the side, up higher for ventilation and light but privacy. We had a few of those battery powered touch light and it was a great traveling rig for the entire band. All the gear went in the 8' behind the wall. We got that rig for 11k and drove it for 4 years.

 

 

haha..that sounds freaking awesome. That would certainly be more fun. I'd love to do that, but I don't think everyone in the band is real handy. I'm the most handy one and I'm no Bob Vila. Anyways, I think a 5x8 would be fine for us. If the gear fits, it fits. It's cheaper and easier to drive a van with a little trailer. Anyways, having a trailer/van combo or just a big van is a tough one. They both have their pro/cons.

[BlueStrat]

 

safely isn't a bad thing..haha...i'm considering that van now. I've got plenty of time to look around so i'll run it by the boys and see what they think. I figured the lease option would be tricky because of mileage restrictions. haha..that sounds freaking awesome. That would certainly be more fun. I'd love to do that, but I don't think everyone in the band is real handy. I'm the most handy one and I'm no Bob Vila. Anyways, I think a 5x8 would be fine for us. If the gear fits, it fits. It's cheaper and easier to drive a van with a little trailer. Anyways, having a trailer/van combo or just a big van is a tough one. They both have their pro/cons.

 

 

Well, the gear fitting isn't so much an issue as how much it weighs and how fast it will wear out the trailer tires.

[91rtstealth]

ah ha! I didn't think of that. How many pieces was your band?

[BlueStrat]

Currently, it's a 4 piece plus a sax player who hauls his own horns. But we have to use our own PA on most of our gigs, so that takes up a lot of room. I carry two 18" subs, two 15/horn cabs, 4 monitor cabs, rack w/ two power amps, plus a powered mixer for backup, cases for cables and speaker wires, etc, as well as my own amp, stands, guitars, lights, and so on. We only play locally now, so everyone else hauls their own gear. If you don't have to haul PA gear, you'll be golden with the smaller trailer.

 

When I did road work, I had as many as 6 guys with full PA, a Hammond B-3, Bass rig, guitar rig, electronic keys, lights, etc etc plus luggage. That was when the 1-ton truck was nice!

 

When I first went on the road before we bought the one-ton, we used a full sized van (14 passenger) and wore out a set of back tires, rear shocks and leaf springs in about a month!

[91rtstealth]

 

Currently, it's a 4 piece plus a sax player who hauls his own horns. But we have to use our own PA on most of our gigs, so that takes up a lot of room. I carry two 18" subs, two 15/horn cabs, 4 monitor cabs, rack w/ two power amps, plus a powered mixer for backup, cases for cables and speaker wires, etc, as well as my own amp, stands, guitars, lights, and so on. We only play locally now, so everyone else hauls their own gear. If you don't have to haul PA gear, you'll be golden with the smaller trailer. When I did road work, I had as many as 6 guys with full PA, a Hammond B-3, Bass rig, guitar rig, electronic keys, lights, etc etc plus luggage. That was when the 1-ton truck was nice! When I first went on the road before we bought the one-ton, we used a full sized van (14 passenger) and wore out a set of back tires, rear shocks and leaf springs in about a month!

 

 

wow..that's a lot of gear. We definitely do not haul that much. We don't haul a PA or lights or anything. Basically 2 guitar amps, 2 bass cabs and a head, drumkit, 2 keyboards, keyboard amp, 2 guitars, 1 bass guitar, and other little stuff. That's about it...I think we could get away with a 15 passenger van and call it day..then if we need a trailer, we can get one. What do you think?

[BlueStrat]

 

wow..that's a lot of gear. We definitely do not haul that much. We don't haul a PA or lights or anything. Basically 2 guitar amps, 2 bass cabs and a head, drumkit, 2 keyboards, keyboard amp, 2 guitars, 1 bass guitar, and other little stuff. That's about it...I think we could get away with a 15 passenger van and call it day..then if we need a trailer, we can get one. What do you think?

 

 

Probably could.

[91rtstealth]

well thanks for all of the help thus far...I am going to talk with the boys this weekend about everything...

[BlueStrat]

Just be careful about buying a van with windows if you'll be parking with your gear in it overnight. I got my '71 strat, '74 LP Custom, and our bass player's '75 P-bass stolen out of a van because the guy could see through the windows and smashed the glass to get in. We got them all back, but it was only by sheer luck.

[91rtstealth]

yeah...i plannedon tinting those back windows super dark...and maybe putting some baby on board stickers on it to throw off the thieves..haha.

[gahsxpeter42]

I would go for Ford van + 6 X 10.

 

My band just upgraded to an RV, but for the last 5 years our Ford conversion van served us very well. Nearing the end of it's use it started getting really bad mileage but it was starting to get neglected, too. I've known so very many bands with GM vans that have had rear end or transmission failure, and that is a super costly fix.

 

It usually goes something like, "yeah, our van just broke down on us last week."

 

"Oh, yeah? What went?"

 

"The rear end fell apart on us."

 

"Man, that is too bad. What kind of van is it?"

 

"Chevy."

 

But then, I tend to think that most people don't treat their vans carefully enough most of the time anyway, especially when towing with trailer.

 

As far as a trailer goes, how serious is your band? If you are ever planning to do more than the occasional weekend gig at a hometown bar, I would recommend a 6 X 10 because most musicians tend to be gearheads and love expanding their rigs, so the preparation of having extra space could be a wise choice.

[Scafeets]

Whether it's a business expense or not, I would only go with a lease under the following conditions:

* You're buying a vehicle that would cost more than $30,000

* You're not putting more than 15,000 miles on it per year.

* You're really using it on a regular basis for short hauls.

* You can return it in pretty much the same shape you got it in (this is tough for bands -expect to pay for any repairs and excessive wear.)

 

It's going to cost you between $400 and $500 per month, (on a zero down kind of lease) so do the math. Can you rent a vehicle for the few times per month you need it?

Or (probably a better bet) buy something so you can modify it.

 

Like others have said, I would avoid the trailer if at all possible. If you do go with one, make sure it's big enough to stand up in, and get the kind with a door that flops down into a ramp instead of the side by side barn doors.

 

Have fun.

[91rtstealth]

yeah I think I am going to stay away from Chevy, but you are right...most people don't maintain their vehicles...as far as the band goes, we are in the starting stages...just doing the cover scene on the east coast, but things are starting to look good...we might be touring around this summer up and down the east coast..hopefully...I think we are just going to start with a van and go from there..

 

and yeah..I think I've decided to not go with the lease because of the mileage restrictions and the fact that it will probably get beat to hell and back...i'd rather just fine a cheap low mileage deal and take care of it...