Members math2014 Posted January 24, 2006 Members Share Posted January 24, 2006 Hi all, I was wondering the following. In my LP (Tokai), i get clean action on 1-5 frets and 10-22 frets, but in the middle of the neck, i get some buzz when i play power chords mostly For example 5/7/7 etc... Should i add relief or substract relief? Furthermore can i adjust the truss rod while the strings are in tune? Or should i loosen them up? Finally, can someone tell me how low is low and how high is high with respect to action, in milimiters rather than 64ths of inches ? (i did the conversion, but an action of 1.19mm 12th fret low E sounds insanely low for mid-action settings). I think at this point i am at around 1.9mm low E, 1.7mm high E. Yannis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members knotty Posted January 24, 2006 Members Share Posted January 24, 2006 You need more relief. Adjust it then RE tune and check it again. For action you are not far off.1.5 low e to 2 high is a good rule of thumb. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members math2014 Posted January 24, 2006 Author Members Share Posted January 24, 2006 Originally posted by knotty You need more relief. Adjust it then RE tune and check it again.For action you are not far off.1.5 low e to 2 high is a good rule of thumb. Really? I thought that if i had buzz while fretting in the middle of the neck , that i should remove relief . strange. So loosen up strings, then adjust truss rod and then retune? BTW i got the guitar in september, after 2 months i added 1/8th of a turn relief, things improved, so now i should add lets say another 1/8th? Is it normal from the factory afterwards as the neck sets in to add relief? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members knotty Posted January 24, 2006 Members Share Posted January 24, 2006 More or less relief is a bit subjective. At 8th fret you should just be able to slide a .48 millpick under the top e without it raising. Do this while Holding down at the first fret (capo?) and the one nearest the guitar body. CHeck this with the strings in perfect tune. If you still have buzzes then look to the bridge/string hight. If still buzz after that you have a possible high fret. Relief can change due to temp, humidity, change of string guage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members math2014 Posted January 24, 2006 Author Members Share Posted January 24, 2006 Ok man, will check on that, But i was in general wondering if i should add or substract relief on this issue Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DaleH Posted January 24, 2006 Members Share Posted January 24, 2006 This site may help.http://mysite.verizon.net/jazz.guitar/guitarsetup.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members math2014 Posted January 24, 2006 Author Members Share Posted January 24, 2006 Very good and informative site bro! cheers.So the action should be 2mm on the low E. Now i just have to find out about adding/substracting relief Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members pedalpat Posted January 24, 2006 Members Share Posted January 24, 2006 if he has no buzzing in the lower frets and buzzing only in the middle a truss rod adjustment is not going to help. he has frets that are lower in the middle of the fretboard. take a straight edge, adjust the neck as straight as you can and rest the straight edge on top of the frets. see if there is any gap from top of fret to bottom of straight edge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members math2014 Posted January 24, 2006 Author Members Share Posted January 24, 2006 The way i see it, but i may be wrong... If i have too much relief, my middle frets are going to be lower than the high frets ie. 7th fret, lower than 12th fret etc. Am i wrong on this? BTW i got no straight edge and no feeler gauges. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members knotty Posted January 24, 2006 Members Share Posted January 24, 2006 Originally posted by pedalpat if he has no buzzing in the lower frets and buzzing only in the middle a truss rod adjustment is not going to help. he has frets that are lower in the middle of the fretboard.take a straight edge, adjust the neck as straight as you can and rest the straight edge on top of the frets. see if there is any gap from top of fret to bottom of straight edge. And if they are lower due to too much relief? Hes a novice, you goin to get him to file his frets next? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Crunchtime Posted January 24, 2006 Members Share Posted January 24, 2006 Here is my method of adjusting the neck. Capo the neck at the first fret. Fret the last fret on the low E with your finger. Now take a feeler guage and check the clerance at the 7th fret. It should be about .010 inches or about 1/4 mm. If it is .015 or more turn the rod clockwise and try again tomorrow. If it is .005 or less turn it counter-clockwise and check again tomorrow. This method works really well for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members pedalpat Posted January 24, 2006 Members Share Posted January 24, 2006 Originally posted by knotty And if they are lower due to too much relief? Hes a novice, you goin to get him to file his frets next? i was just trying to point out how he can determine if the frets are un even in height.also, could you explain to me how adjusting a truss rod will cure un even frets? he explained that frets in the lower region are ok, but the frets in the middle of the neck buzz. please explain how too much relief will cause buzzing in the middle of the neck?if the frets play cleanly at the nut end and at the heel end, the only explanation is uneven fret height in the middle of the neck. truss rod will only help if he has buzzing at the nut end of the fingerboard. if he had buzzing at the nut end and in the middle, then a truss rod adj. would make sense. but thats not the case here.but, i am always willing to learn new things, maybe you have something you can share with me that i am missing here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members math2014 Posted January 24, 2006 Author Members Share Posted January 24, 2006 Originally posted by pedalpat i was just trying to point out how he can determine if the frets are un even in height. also, could you explain to me how adjusting a truss rod will cure un even frets? he explained that frets in the lower region are ok, but the frets in the middle of the neck buzz. please explain how too much relief will cause buzzing in the middle of the neck? if the frets play cleanly at the nut end and at the heel end, the only explanation is uneven fret height in the middle of the neck. truss rod will only help if he has buzzing at the nut end of the fingerboard. if he had buzzing at the nut end and in the middle, then a truss rod adj. would make sense. but thats not the case here. but, i am always willing to learn new things, maybe you have something you can share with me that i am missing here. If you got excess relief, wouldnt the neck have less height in the middle? like this below?___/ hence if you fret in the middle the next fret up will be higher ie buzzwhereas if you havent got enough relief you ll have a back bow/--------hence if you fret in the lower frets (1-4) it will buzz.Correct me if i am wrong Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members pedalpat Posted January 24, 2006 Members Share Posted January 24, 2006 if you have too much relief the neck would look like this ----- ----/ would be alot of relief and a raised heel end of fretboard. ideally the heel end of the fretboard should be flat and fall away. if it rises at the heel end, then the frets need to be filed down or the frets removed and the end of the fingerboard sanded level and frets reinstalled and leveled/crowned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members math2014 Posted January 24, 2006 Author Members Share Posted January 24, 2006 Fair point! Then the culprit must be either low action, or me hammering on powerchords. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DaleH Posted January 24, 2006 Members Share Posted January 24, 2006 Not sure what you need. This has a picture of the neck. You may have to take the guitar to a pro.http://www.athensmusician.net/archive/2001-05-01_geneimbody1.php Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members math2014 Posted January 24, 2006 Author Members Share Posted January 24, 2006 Mine looks exactly like the typical setup or in between the typical setup and 100% straightI could fit (barely) a piece of card taken from a daddario pack of strings (the singly ply piece of card) on the 7th fret with 1st and 22nd fret depressed.I think i am just an asshat who cannot understand that an LP wont sound as crystal clear as a strat :idea: Anyhow, i played 2hrs now, and it feels nice unless i slam full on power chords on the clean channel... it gets a bit dirty then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members krazeexharhar Posted January 24, 2006 Members Share Posted January 24, 2006 When it says turn the rod counterclockwise...is it counterclockwise looking from the bridge or from the headstock? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members pedalpat Posted January 24, 2006 Members Share Posted January 24, 2006 look at it like your opening a jar. to loosen, you go counter clockwise. to tighten clockwise. if it adjusts at the headstock then look from the headtsock down. if it adjusts at the neck heel end, look from that end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members pedalpat Posted January 24, 2006 Members Share Posted January 24, 2006 Originally posted by math2014 Mine looks exactly like the typical setup or in between the typical setup and 100% straight I could fit (barely) a piece of card taken from a daddario pack of strings (the singly ply piece of card) on the 7th fret with 1st and 22nd fret depressed. I think i am just an asshat who cannot understand that an LP wont sound as crystal clear as a strat :idea: Anyhow, i played 2hrs now, and it feels nice unless i slam full on power chords on the clean channel... it gets a bit dirty then. your neck could be adjusted fine, with enough relief etc. but if the frets are not level you will still get plenty of fret buzz. uneven frets can be corrected by leveling or if its a loose fret, glued down.if your happy with it the way it is, cool. rock on. if it still bugs you, take it to a tech and see what they suggest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members math2014 Posted January 25, 2006 Author Members Share Posted January 25, 2006 Originally posted by pedalpat your neck could be adjusted fine, with enough relief etc. but if the frets are not level you will still get plenty of fret buzz. uneven frets can be corrected by leveling or if its a loose fret, glued down.if your happy with it the way it is, cool. rock on. if it still bugs you, take it to a tech and see what they suggest. Ok will do man, but to be honest, all the LPs i ve played (Gibson et al) that had less buzz, had higher action as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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