Insane Possibly Dangerous Problem

[ThomasD]

 

guitarnuts.com Install that blocking capacitor mod. You are asking for it. Good luck!

 

 

The blocking cap mod is just a temporary failsafe, to offer some protection in the event of a short or other accidental failure. If you are lucky it might give you enough protection to tell you that a problem has occured, and let you get disconnected. But it is in no way intended as long term protection. Hit it with enough voltage and it will do nothing to protect you.

 

Anyone who plays out absolutely needs a circuit analyzer and needs to know how to deal with polarity/grounding problems. Especially if you are playing older places - sure the wall outlet may be three prong, but that dfoesn't mean it actually has a ground.

 

As others have mentioned, these are potentially lethal voltages we are talking about. Consider the path any short is taking - from you lips to your hands - right past your heart.

[psilocyborg]

 

We are all Christians, so I would appreciate it if you didn't curse in your postings. Thanks.

 

 

Mmm. So you really think Jesus would care? I'm pretty sure "He" has bigger fish to fry. What with the whole 'unconditional love for all of God's creation' thing, I'm pretty sure that humanity's petty little taboos fall low on "His" list of things to be concerned about. Far, far below Africa's AIDS epidemic... and the worn-torn Middle East... and all the other third-world suffering going on this weird little planet. And let's not even go into the rest of universe whose sheer, unimagible vasitude makes the existence of alien lifeforms an almost statistical certainty. No, somehow I doubt that Jesus has time nor inclination to worry overly much about crude language.

 

/ot rant

[Ronzo II]

Mmm. So you really think Jesus would care? I'm pretty sure "He" has bigger fish to fry. What with the whole 'unconditional love for all of God's creation' thing, I'm pretty sure that humanity's petty little taboos fall low on "His" list of things to be concerned about. Far, far below Africa's AIDS epidemic... and the worn-torn Middle East... and all the other third-world suffering going on this weird little planet. And let's not even go into the rest of universe whose sheer, unimagible vasitude makes the existence of alien lifeforms an almost statistical certainty. No, somehow I doubt that Jesus has time nor inclination to worry overly much about crude language. /ot rant

 

Well stated. I agree completely.

 

Jesus' disciples came from backgrounds where crude language was the norm. I'm sure that most of them "cursed" in Aramaic on a regular basis.

[FUBTAG]

 

Mmm. So you really think Jesus would care? I'm pretty sure "He" has bigger fish to fry. What with the whole 'unconditional love for all of God's creation' thing, I'm pretty sure that humanity's petty little taboos fall low on "His" list of things to be concerned about. Far, far below Africa's AIDS epidemic... and the worn-torn Middle East... and all the other third-world suffering going on this weird little planet. And let's not even go into the rest of universe whose sheer, unimagible vasitude makes the existence of alien lifeforms an almost statistical certainty. No, somehow I doubt that Jesus has time nor inclination to worry overly much about crude language. /ot rant

 

 

Though all the OP did was asked that posters refrain from using crude language.

Same as I would ask that you don't smoke in my house... or fart in my car. What he didn't ask for was a dissertation on WWJD. It was a very valid request and if you can't comply, then move on....

[angus_old]

 

Though all the OP did was asked that posters refrain from using crude language. Same as I would ask that you don't smoke in my house... or fart in my car. What he didn't ask for was a dissertation on WWJD. It was a very valid request and if you can't comply, then move on....

 

 

what he did was attempt to inflict his language preferences on people who were trying to help him. how about nobody says anything? that would satisfy his request

[VanR]

 

bingo. I use my wireless all the time for gigs. you never know what kind of shoddy wiring a club might have.

 

 

Yes it's really the only reason I am wireless live. I've seen to much bull{censored} wiring in my life at clubs. Once in 1978 I was playing in a little club in Osceola, AR of all places and when I went to sing this big blue flame shot out of the mic and down I went. Luckily I was just stunned for a few seconds. but it taught me a lesson. If you aren't going wireless then you need to check out the grounds of the club.

[FUBTAG]

 

what he did was attempt to inflict his language preferences on people who were trying to help him. how about nobody says anything? that would satisfy his request

 

 

Can we not let THIS post devolve into another Guitarfetich, 10,000 view 550 post count thread??? he asked that you don't curse. If you can't help him without using such language, then move on. That's all... I am sure there are MANY plain speaking individuals that are able to help..... What is the problem with this forum lately?

[psilocyborg]

 

Though all the OP did was asked that posters refrain from using crude language. Same as I would ask that you don't smoke in my house... or fart in my car. What he didn't ask for was a dissertation on WWJD. It was a very valid request and if you can't comply, then move on....

 

 

But I have complied. I haven't, to my knowledge, used any cuss words in this thread. But I will be moving on as I have no real advice to give. Though I have been jolted a time or two playing on improperly grounded amps, so I feel the OP's pain.

[JSRocker]

 

he asked that you don't curse. If you can't help him without using such language, then move on. That's all... I am sure there are MANY plain speaking individuals that are able to help..... What is the problem with this forum lately?

 

Thank You.

 

That's precisely the reason I haven't used this forum in 6 months.

 

Now, can anyone tell me a way to fix this cheaply? See the sig. I don't just get to buy guitar toys, even if they may be toys that could save my other toys and potentially my life.

 

I am definately going to check out the wiring on this place tonight. I've got a high dollar power strip that has a grounding detect light. It's not much, but it's a start. Wow... I hope I don't need to buy a new amp.

[FUBTAG]

 

But I have complied. I haven't, to my knowledge, used any cuss words in this thread. But I will be moving on as I have no real advice to give. Though I have been jolted a time or two playing on improperly grounded amps, so I feel the OP's pain.

 

 

You didn't -- other posters did.... I have been jolted fat too many time as well from faulty wiring in a bar and was able to break the loop created by the combination of the PA, AMP and me (plus guitar) by adding the ground lift to my amps plug.

[angus_old]

who cares if anyone did? if he's unable to tolerate the occasional '{censored}ty' then yeah, he doesn't belong here, or most other places online. or in the world, for that matter

[peavey_impact]

who cares if anyone did? if he's unable to tolerate the occasional '{censored}ty' then yeah, he doesn't belong here, or most other places online. or in the world, for that matter

 

[Prages]

 

Now, can anyone tell me a way to fix this cheaply? See the sig. I don't just get to buy guitar toys, even if they may be toys that could save my other toys and potentially my life.

 

 

The cheapest solution is to run the guitar amp and the PA on the same circuit. If you don't know which outlets are on the same circuit, then buy an extension cord and a power strip and plug everything into the same outlet. Provided you're not running a high wattage PA system and a bunch of lights, you shouldn't knock the breaker running the guitar amps, bass amp, and PA off the same circuit, and since that's all a common ground, the path of least resistance is no longer through your lips.

[Ronzo II]

 

Thank You. That's precisely the reason I haven't used this forum in 6 months. Now, can anyone tell me a way to fix this cheaply? See the sig. I don't just get to buy guitar toys, even if they may be toys that could save my other toys and potentially my life. I am definately going to check out the wiring on this place tonight. I've got a high dollar power strip that has a grounding detect light. It's not much, but it's a start. Wow... I hope I don't need to buy a new amp.

 

 

A start would be to buy, at Radio Shack for about $5, the three LED outlet checker. That may save your life on a gig or in a dodgy rehearsal space, not to mention your own home. Keith Relf of the Yardbirds died rehearsing at home from exactly what you've experienced. UK voltages at the AC outlet are twice as high as in the USA. If you have a multimeter and know how to use it, use that to check the grounds and the AC line. If you don't have one, get one. Harbor Freight can provide a basic model for $9.99. Here's the link:

 

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=92020

 

It's not a Fluke, but it's better than nothing. It should go with you to every gig. Please learn to use it properly.

 

The next thing I would do is to take your amp to a tech to check the ground. Yes, it is a relatively new amp. Yes, it is solid state. Yes, a bad ground on the AC primary side that leaks into the signal ground can kill you. This may cost what you might consider to be a significant amount of money. What is your life worth?

 

You may have to do that with the PA system, too. All of the pieces of it that receives AC mains voltage. However, you said that this has occurred in different venues, with different PA systems. The only constant is your amp in the circumstances you've described. Therefore, I'd start by checking the outlets (cheap to do), and, if they are all OK, having the amp checked.

[Roy]

 

Thank You. That's precisely the reason I haven't used this forum in 6 months. Now, can anyone tell me a way to fix this cheaply? See the sig. I don't just get to buy guitar toys, even if they may be toys that could save my other toys and potentially my life. I am definately going to check out the wiring on this place tonight. I've got a high dollar power strip that has a grounding detect light. It's not much, but it's a start. Wow... I hope I don't need to buy a new amp.

 

 

Sigh. I think we all need to show more understanding. It's not an unreasonable request given his situation.

 

Do not lift the ground on your amp. Electrical 3 line circuits have a hot, a neutral and a ground. The ground is there in case the neutral fails for safety. If you're having problems with poor ground, the last thing I would do is remove this safety alltogether.

 

I just finished fixing my problem cheaply. You need to fix the building you are in. Test the ground and neutral at the outlet(s) you are using (an LED light one will work if you can't locate a voltmeter). It's probably weak or nonexistant. Figure out why. Is the third prong even connected? What it's connected to? Once you've established the problem, you need to make a solid connection to ground. Normally you can use the conduit the wires are in but copper plumbing pipes also work or run a separate grounding wire from the buildings "Home" ground. My problem was in a garage so I pounded a 10 foot copper rod into the ground outside and strapped to that.

[Roy]

oh yeah....if you don't feel confident about doing this, call an electrician....please. it's potentially lethal stuff.

[telemanjam]

 

It's a Line6 Spider II 15w that I got for Christmas about 2 years ago. It serves my purposes, since all we do live run my modeler into it and mic the amp. Fortunately, for bigger gigs I have a Flextone II, but it's a monster to use in a small place like we play every week. For your information, it has never shocked my hand. I even licked my fingers... I tried it, but nothing. I can touch it all I want, but if I touch my nose or lip to the mic, it'll get me. However, the first time this happened, when I touched the mic (with my hands off of the guitar) the natural hum on our lead player's (who loves hi-gain and has 6 distortion pedals to kill his tone with, and make lots of ambient noise) changed slightly, when I would take my hand off and on the mic. Weird, ain't it? That sounds nasty. By the way guys... my bandmates may be stopping by to check up on the problem. We are all Christians, so I would appreciate it if you didn't curse in your postings. Thanks.

 

 

So are you running your guitar into a modeler (like a POD or something) and then in to the amp? Is your modeler going to just the amp or is the modeler being run to the PA as well? If it's the latter, there is your problem. There is a ground loop between the modeler and PA.

 

 

I suggest you post this thread in the Live Sound forum. Those guys will know best.

[smurfco]

 

try touching something metal besides your guitar and touching a mic at the same time. thatll tell you if its the PA. In my old jamspace our PA always did this; if you touched your guitar strings and the mic - ZAP! If you touched anything else metal and the mic - still a ZAP!

 

 

Yeah, good idea. Start touching as many metal things as you can while touching your mic or guitar string.

 

When you're done doing that, maybe you can check for gas leaks by lighting a bunch of matches.

[telemanjam]

 

Thank You. That's precisely the reason I haven't used this forum in 6 months. Now, can anyone tell me a way to fix this cheaply? See the sig. I don't just get to buy guitar toys, even if they may be toys that could save my other toys and potentially my life. I am definately going to check out the wiring on this place tonight. I've got a high dollar power strip that has a grounding detect light. It's not much, but it's a start. Wow... I hope I don't need to buy a new amp.

 

 

This is the venues problem--not yours. If they won't be bothered to fix it, don't play there. Move on to a different venue. I don't know about you, but I wouldn't want to play at a venue that doesn't care about the lives of those playing there. Just imagine what the pay would be at such a place...it'd hardly be worth the risk...

[ozzuk1]

What mic are you using?, and what is it running into deskwise?

 

I'm guessing its either a Shure SM58 or one of the behringer ones???

 

Could be a phantom power problem where the desk is sending 48 volts to the mic which doesent need it and the metal pop shield is zapping you...

 

Friends of mine were recording once witha 58 and had this problem...

 

It'll give you a fairly nasty zap but wont harm you too much, it'll dmaage your pride more....

 

Owain

[peavey_impact]

 

Yeah, good idea. Start touching as many metal things as you can while touching your mic or guitar string. When you're done doing that, maybe you can check for gas leaks by lighting a bunch of matches.

 

 

That would just be retarded. Obviously, if the shock was that bad you should never touch the {censored} again. Ive been shocked by a mic dozens of times; its not like a {censored}in electric fence or anything. You aren't gonna get the full current unless it is royally {censored}ed up. Shock from a PA system feels like a strong pinch.

[Roy]

 

What mic are you using?, and what is it running into deskwise? I'm guessing its either a Shure SM58 or one of the behringer ones??? Could be a phantom power problem where the desk is sending 48 volts to the mic which doesent need it and the metal pop shield is zapping you... Friends of mine were recording once witha 58 and had this problem... It'll give you a fairly nasty zap but wont harm you too much, it'll dmaage your pride more.... Owain

 

 

I thought that was 48v AC? It wouldn't hurt more than suckin' on a handful of batteries.

[ozzuk1]

Not quite sure but yeah it's likely AC DC would be leathal, and seeing as it likely has metal pop shield it could the be cause of small shocks...

 

Owain

[CanuckKid_15]

Yeah, good idea. Start touching as many metal things as you can while touching your mic or guitar string. When you're done doing that, maybe you can check for gas leaks by lighting a bunch of matches.

 

 

hahahaha!!

[Roy]

You're wearing rubber soled shoes, aint ya? I was getting 110V thru the strings when I had bare feet on concrete, not when I wore the Converse. What's happening to you might be the same thing that happened to me only instead trying to find a path to ground thru your feet, the charge is finding it in your mic.

 

Stupid question - Have you checked your amp's power cord?