A question for some of you

[adlo76]

 

ok so are you also not impressed by opera singers, first chair violinists, most big band musicians, and classical pianists or guitarists? There are a lot of musicians you "aren't impressed" by.

 

 

Are you stupid or something?

 

When did say any I wasn't impressed by any of the above?

[GCDEF]

Usually a symphony orchestra performance features very technically skilled musicians playing music from the best composers that has stood the test of time. If the first violinist played an original composition, you'd probably have the same reaction a lot of people have to EJ. Great skill, but really boring.

[book_of_lies777]

it's all subjective.

 

I can't play anywhere near something like "Cliffs of Dover".

 

But I also don't listen to stuff like that. I'd rather hear Scott Ian moshing riffs... but that's just my preference. I personally find Steve Vai or Jeff Beck as boring as watching grass grow... but that doesn't mean that what they do doesn't require skill and dedication.

 

some people like green - others like red.

 

too many people confuse OPINION with FACT.

[freemusicno34]

 

Are you stupid or something? When did say any I wasn't impressed by any of the above?

 

 

Alright man chill a bit. Not sure how this went from friendly debate to angry argument

 

First of all I'm not claiming that EVERYTHING I've said applies to you in particular. However I did get the impression that while you thought the kid was technically good, you weren't blown away or anything. Now, and maybe you in particular didn't say this, but others did and have said this: the reason they weren't impressed by it was because he didn't write it, or the reason he's not a great musician is because he's just "copying" something without actually producing anything of his own. What I am pointing out is that this line of reasoning can be applied to an ENORMOUS amount of musicians. That's all. i'm really not attacking anyone, don't yell at me pls

[freemusicno34]

 

it's all subjective. I can't play anywhere near something like "Cliffs of Dover". But I also don't listen to stuff like that. I'd rather hear Scott Ian moshing riffs... but that's just my preference. I personally find Steve Vai or Jeff Beck as boring as watching grass grow... but that doesn't mean that what they do doesn't require skill and dedication. some people like green - others like red. too many people confuse OPINION with FACT.

 

 

That's totally fair, I'm not questioning people's opinions about the music itself. While I actually do like Cliffs of Dover, most virtuoso guitar pieces don't do it for me. For instance I think For the Love of God by Vai is really cheesy (well so is cliffs, but imo in a good way).

 

The problem for me comes when people don't like it, trivialize it, whatever, simply BECAUSE the performer didn't write it.

[adlo76]

You suck at reading comprehension IMO.

 

The more I read your drivel the more it seems that you too are a 15 year old who can play Cliffs of Dover and now have sand in the vajayjay because it's not garnering you a standing O.

[freemusicno34]

 

You suck at reading comprehension IMO. The more I read your drivel the more it seems that you too are a 15 year old who can play Cliffs of Dover and now have sand in the vajayjay because it's not garnering you a standing O.

 

 

haha well I'm not exactly sure what i did to piss you off so bad, whatever it was I apologize. I am actually just looking to discuss this rather than get in a pointless argument

 

but just for the record I actually play jazz as my main style, and my favorite aspect of performing is improv, which is exactly the opposite of what I'm talking about here.

[adlo76]

piss me off?

nah.

 

you're just another internet geek on the other side of my computer screen (as am i too you i'm sure)

 

you're not worth my getting pissy over.

i'm just thinking you're arguments are lame but my posts are in the nature of fun in between practicing.

[Tone Deaf]

Playing guitar and writing a song are two completely different skills. Period. Playing guitar is a performance skill. Writing a song is artistry. With enough practice, a guitar player can learn or be taught to play most anything that has already been written. But when it comes to writing a song, only one person (unless it's a collaboration) can write that song.

 

 

So back to the original post...

 

Sure, it's impressive to a point when some dude posts himself on youtube playing an Eric Johnson solo and/or song flawlessly. But there are probably thousands of other guys who can do the same. Eric Johnson wrote the song/solo and no one else can do that now.

 

That being said, people are different. I find myself drawn to songwriting rather than playing ability for just that reason. Others are more impressed by the performance aspect. For me, there's very little that's unique about being able to pull of the performance. The songwriting however, is truly unique and personally, that's what I value.

[jrockbridge]

..someone posted a youtube vid of someone playing EJ's Cliffs of Dover. A number of people said something along the lines of "Sure he can play, but talk to me when he writes something that good." So what's the deal with that?...

 

The answer is jealousy. Most people want to tear down what they feel threatens them. When a guitarist hears a very gifted player, they feel inferior, and they try to tear it down to feel better about themselves and their playing. It's basic psychology. Anyone who tries to refute this is just in denial.

 

P.S. If any of you hear a player do a brilliant cover...believe that they can usually write a better tune than your suck ass drivel! So, go wet your pants about it and get over it!

[freemusicno34]

so does that mean you don't think very highly of big band musicians, classical guitarists/pianists, symphony members, opera singers, etc etc?

 

Keep in mind I'm not trying to specifically argue in support of the Cliffs of Dover kid. It wasn't even that amazing, sure he's good but it wasn't flawless and he played along with the CD at a pretty loud volume so of course it's gonna sound like EJ playing, cause you're hearing EJ play it. But that's neither here nor there. I'm talking in general why people think writing music is THE characteristic people look for in musicians when imo (and traditionally/historically) there are a lot of other characteristics that are considered just as (if not more) important in defining a good musician.

 

edit: to Tone Deaf

[adlo76]

i think very highly of them if they're good at what they do.

 

the kid on the video wasn't any better than the other 5,000 vids on you tube of people covering Cliffs of Dover.

 

and again, read my original post in the original thread and you're realize you're arguing with the wrong cat.

[Fenderman1991]

I figured some people would take my statement out of context, so I'll clarify. I mean those that are dead set on being a musician, play numer ous hours a day and want to learn a song. They can learn anything, even if it takes years to learn.

 

Not anyone, but I didn'[t think it's be taken so literally. :poke:

[freemusicno34]

 

i think very highly of them if they're good at what they do. the kid on the video wasn't any better than the other 5,000 vids on you tube of people covering Cliffs of Dover. and again, read my original post in the original thread and you're realize you're arguing with the wrong cat.

 

 

alright, sorry for putting you in a group you don't belong. I admit I didn't see what you wrote in the other thread, I just assumed if someone comes in this thread and disagrees with me it's because they are the type of person I was talking about. and I agree that that kid wasn't very noteworthy, I was just using him as an example

[adlo76]

alright, sorry for putting you in a group you don't belong. I admit I didn't see what you wrote in the other thread, I just assumed if someone comes in this thread and disagrees with me it's because they are the type of person I was talking about. and I agree that that kid wasn't very noteworthy, I was just using him as an example

 

it's all good.

 

hugs n' kisses. bff's? :lol:

[freemusicno34]

it's all good. hugs n' kisses. bff's? :lol:

 

man i'm so glad we got rid of all that bad blood. now our friendship can blossom like a thousand beautiful flowers

[Tone Deaf]

I never said that I didn't think very highly of anyone specifically. I'll turn your question around and ask you one.

 

What is more impressive?

1. Someone who does something that thousands of others can do equally as well.

2. Someone who does something that no one else has done.

 

There isn't one right answer. For me, I'll take the songwriter. That doesn't mean that I have no use for performers. Although I will say that you won't catch me dead in a bar with a cover band.

[adlo76]

 

I never said that I didn't think very highly of anyone specifically. I'll turn your question around and ask you one. What is more impressive? 1. Someone who does something that thousands of others can do equally as well. 2. Someone who does something that no one else has done. There isn't one right answer. For me, I'll take the songwriter. That doesn't mean that I have no use for performers. Although I will say that you won't catch me dead in a bar with a cover band.

 

 

This was basically my orginal post in the orginal thread.

#1 is commendable but I choose #2 if I have to pick just one but no disrespect to either

[freemusicno34]

I'll point out though that thousands of people can't play like the first chair violinist of the Boston Symphony, but whatever. I do however agree with you that there isn't one right answer. and to me cover bands are usually boring

[Tone Deaf]

I'll point out though that thousands of people can't play like the first chair violinist of the Boston Symphony, but whatever. I do however agree with you that there isn't one right answer. and to me cover bands are usually boring

 

Agreed 100%. My point about being able to do something that thousands of others can do was in regard to guitarists learing to play an Eric Johnson tune, not the first chair violinist. Which is why my willingness to attend a performance of the Boston Symphony and my unwillingness to sit through a classic rock cover band is not a contradiction.

[adlo76]

damn. we're all like BFF's now.

 

i bet all the original BFF's are so unimpressed that we're copying them.

[freemusicno34]

feel good thread of the {censored}ing century

[DaveAronow]

Dee Plane!!!

 

Dee Plane!!!

[adlo76]

If we have an end of the year HC Forum awards ceremony this thread has to get a nomination.

[Oaksong]

 

I never said that I didn't think very highly of anyone specifically. I'll turn your question around and ask you one. What is more impressive? 1. Someone who does something that thousands of others can do equally as well. 2. Someone who does something that no one else has done. There isn't one right answer. For me, I'll take the songwriter. That doesn't mean that I have no use for performers. Although I will say that you won't catch me dead in a bar with a cover band.

 

 

well, this is a false comparison between 1 and 2. 1 is a measurable thing "quality", while the second is a binary "original or not".

 

It takes a similar level of dedication/skill/talent to do a high quality rendition as it does high quality writing.

 

for example:

I don't care how original a sappy love song might be. It still is a sappy love song that anyone COULD have written, but didn't cause they had better things to do and more sense.

 

also, someone could just jam an original riff and it could be crap and sound nasty. But, nobody ever did (this particular nasty riff) before. Does that make it suddenly good?

 

 

Finally, good songwriting is limited by the technical ability to perform. While crazy virtuoso pieces may not be your bag, those same skills enable ENORMOUS expression. The greatest songwriter in the world is a worthless pile of crap without someone to perform it.