Electric Drum Kit...Help!

[SirEsquire]

We are a 5-piece indie rock band (Plural Form - some links below), and our drummer insists on using an electric drum kit as opposed to a regular, normalacoustic kit. The band would prefer him to use an acoustic kit, but...

 

Being that it is an electric kit, we run it through our PA.

Here's the setup:

 

Main vocalist - thru PA

Violin - thru PA

Backing vocalist - thru PA

Electric Kit - thru PA

Myself and the other guitarist just run thru our amps

No bass

 

The main issue that has arisen from this is one of sound quality:

Since the drums are now being run through both our floor monitor (just one), and the two PA speakers, they tend to either overwhelm or wash out everything else going thru the PA (see above).

Another way of putting it would be that it seems like there is just too much going thru the PA: drums, vocals, violin, etc.

 

Do you have any suggestions, advice, or anything that could help us draw a better sound from the electric kit or PA in general?

 

We really need some help with this issue...

 

Links to some Plural Form vids:

http://www.youtube.com/user/homemadebrownies

 

Thanks!

[MXDAD]

I would think E drums would make everything easier especially stage volume? In your case I guess not if you don

[flanc]

Our drummer uses a TD20 and it definitely has it's advantages: stage volume is the biggest advantage IMHO. We put everything through the FOH to encourage lower amp volume on stage. We also have four monitor mixes. The drummer gets his own mix that is drum heavy. His mix carries the stage nicely (Nx750p). If the guitarist needs a bit more, he gets more in his monitor. All in all, a great setup. What is stopping you from putting the guitars through the mains and turning them down on stage? Do you have a separate monitor mix for the drummer to keep the drums out of everyone else's mix?

[SirEsquire]

I would think E drums would make everything easier especially stage volume? In your case I guess not if you don

[SirEsquire]

 

Our drummer uses a TD20 and it definitely has it's advantages: stage volume is the biggest advantage IMHO. We put everything through the FOH to encourage lower amp volume on stage. We also have four monitor mixes. The drummer gets his own mix that is drum heavy. His mix carries the stage nicely (Nx750p). If the guitarist needs a bit more, he gets more in his monitor. All in all, a great setup. What is stopping you from putting the guitars through the mains and turning them down on stage? Do you have a separate monitor mix for the drummer to keep the drums out of everyone else's mix?

 

 

As I just answered in my other reply, we only have one stage monitor.

Check out this link:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_8vRdThCRUs

 

In this clip we are playing acoustic (usually electric), but notice that our PA speakers are actually setup behind us. You can see the one speaker behind our one guitarist. We did not realize that if we were to move those two speakers out in front of us, that that would lessen our volume issue significantly. *Note that in that the above video was filmed in front of our left PA speaker, so the sound is not exactly a fair representation.*

[SirEsquire]

 

What is stopping you from putting the guitars through the mains and turning them down on stage?

 

 

We think that putting our guitars through the PA along with everything else would just be too much? Perhaps we are wrong...

 

So far, the replies have said that if anything our stage volume should be improvedas a result of using electric drums. So, obviously, we are missing something...probably something simple...but important.

 

It seems that now our issue is that we only have one stage floor monitor...

[flanc]

Hmmm...edrums and no drum monitor (or subwoofer for FOH). I can see why you'd want acoustic drums. IMHO, you guys need to: 1) move the FOH speakers in front of the band. 2) get a drum monitor, 3) get a couple monitors for the singer/guitarists/violin player to share. (Hopefully you mixer supports at least 2 monitor mixes). 3) Get a subwoofer or two to amplify the kick...I can't imagine your FOH speakers will give you much kick or floor tom.

[SirEsquire]

Hmmm...edrums and no drum monitor (or subwoofer for FOH). I can see why you'd want acoustic drums. IMHO, you guys need to: 1) move the FOH speakers in front of the band. 2) get a drum monitor, 3) get a couple monitors for the singer/guitarists/violin player to share. (Hopefully you mixer supports at least 2 monitor mixes). 3) Get a subwoofer or two to amplify the kick...I can't imagine your FOH speakers will give you much kick or floor tom.

 

Yeah, your suggestions are exactly what I was thinking. Thank you!!

[robertfoshizzle]

Every time a drummer uses an e-kit for anything other than practice, a puppy dies.

[monthlymixcd]

+1 to dedicated drum monitor on stage! I'd recommend a powered 15" like the NX750P mentioned earlier for better kick. Start there. If you get a powered monitor for the drums;

 

[Dark Ice]

I watched your clip. Please dont take offence or anything at this comment but, those electronic drums sound like ass

Like you say this was recorded in front of a PA speaker so, maybe it doesn't sound like that out front but, if thats what the drums sound like I would be looking to upgrade, fast.

 

The kit he's using (from what I can see in the low res video) looks like one of the cheaper kits on the market. I've played one before and although the toms and snare can sound ok, the cymbals really sound shambolic, kinda like what I'm hearing in the video there.

 

Please dont let this put you off e-drums. There are decent good kits out there that will mix and sound far better if you spend the right money on them. If moneys a problem your drummer might be able to buy a new brain and use his existing pads until he wants to upgrade them as well.

 

Another solution I've seen a lot of drummers do is to use the electric kit for toms, snare and bass, but use a real set of cymbals. This leaves you with the benefit of less storage/haulage you would have with a traditional kit, as well as eliminating tuning, head replacement, and potentially saving setup time.

 

Your ears will thank you for dumping the acoustic kit

Hope you guys get it worked out.

 

Steve.

[SirEsquire]

I watched your clip. Please dont take offence or anything at this comment but, those electronic drums sound like ass Like you say this was recorded in front of a PA speaker so, maybe it doesn't sound like that out front but, if thats what the drums sound like I would be looking to upgrade, fast. The kit he's using (from what I can see in the low res video) looks like one of the cheaper kits on the market. I've played one before and although the toms and snare can sound ok, the cymbals really sound shambolic, kinda like what I'm hearing in the video there. Please dont let this put you off e-drums. There are decent good kits out there that will mix and sound far better if you spend the right money on them. If moneys a problem your drummer might be able to buy a new brain and use his existing pads until he wants to upgrade them as well. Another solution I've seen a lot of drummers do is to use the electric kit for toms, snare and bass, but use a real set of cymbals. This leaves you with the benefit of less storage/haulage you would have with a traditional kit, as well as eliminating tuning, head replacement, and potentially saving setup time. Your ears will thank you for dumping the acoustic kit Hope you guys get it worked out. Steve.

 

Yeah, just the sound quality of the ED has been an issue for us. I mean, I much prefer the sound of an acoustic kit over an electric. However, I do agree that the volume issues drastically improve with the use of an electric kit.

 

Thanks for being honest about the video. First, it was recorded on a little Flip camcorder - the sound on those is not the best - but you are right that overall the drums don't sound that great.

 

Our drummer has actually done the hybrid idea before: mixing the acoustic cymbals with the electric kit - and that works pretty well.

[flanc]

Edrums vs acoustic drums is religion to drummers. To me, a singer and PA guy running the sound from the stage, the edrums make my job a ton easier. Our drummer uses the high-end Roland TD 20 kit too and we have (up to) 6kw of JBL subs depending on the club size. The kick will rattle your bones and his cymbals sound great. He did go to a standard hi-hat because he just couldn't get the electronic version to sound/feel right.

 

Edit: A cheap edrum kit sounds much worse than a cheap acoustic kit. A great acoustic kit can be overwhelming in a smallish club without a light-touch drummer or a plexi shield. A high-end edrum kit is a good compromise to me.

[fireax]

In our old band, our drummer went from the accoustic set to a Roland E set.

What a difference.

We could control the sound from the board.

It was easy to set up for gigs....just walk the whole set in, and hook up.

However....He did use his accoustic snare drum, not the E snare.

 

He liked the feel of it, and in the bands case...we could hear that snare and it tracked for us.

[Special J]

As a drummer, guitarist, and sound guy, I dislike electronic drums for anything besides a novelty (adding samples/sounds to an existing acoustic kit) or for rehearsals where you need to be quiet. As a player, electronic cymbals sound and feel like crap. All but the really high end electronic kits feel like you're playing on practice pads. As a sound guy, I dislike not having control over the individual drums, and there's always something lacking without the energy of the drums coming off of the stage. Unless you have a really good set and a really good PA, it's likely to sound anemic and lifeless. Manu Katche pulls it off, but I think he's the only one. He still uses real cymbals though.

[SirEsquire]

 

As a drummer, guitarist, and sound guy, I dislike electronic drums for anything besides a novelty (adding samples/sounds to an existing acoustic kit) or for rehearsals where you need to be quiet. As a player, electronic cymbals sound and feel like crap. All but the really high end electronic kits feel like you're playing on practice pads. As a sound guy, I dislike not having control over the individual drums, and there's always something lacking without the energy of the drums coming off of the stage. Unless you have a really good set and a really good PA, it's likely to sound anemic and lifeless. Manu Katche pulls it off, but I think he's the only one. He still uses real cymbals though.

 

 

 

I tend to side with you on the sound quality. I really prefer acoustic, hands-down. Like you said, electric drums just sound lifeless - there is absolutely zilch energy coming from them. Yet, we cannot seem to convince our drummer to use his acoustic kit.

 

Aside from that, this thread has provided many useful insights and ideas on how we can get our stage volume under control - so at least we can get that straight.

[MXDAD]

 

Yet, we cannot seem to convince our drummer to use his acoustic kit..

 

 

Tell him you will help carry them and he might! LOL

[Speedhead]

I own a TD20 kit and have used it live and have gotten good results. Although without an adequate PA(with subs) and a decent monitor setup I would NOT reccommend doing this for most types of music. Nor would i reccommend using a low quality E-kit as they tend to not sound too great.

 

I dont think i would be comfortable playing live on any lesser E-kit than my TD20. Just my opinion...........

[flanc]

We have only used the TD20 and have had good success with ample subs and a great monitor. Our drummer also feeds me his drums on 4 seperate channels for FOH control: Kick, Toms, Snare, everything else.

 

My previous drummer used a DW kit that sounded awesome. It took much more work at each gig to get them sounding good and the stage volume was WAY louder. A plexi-shield would have been the ticket but he hated the concept and we couldn't get him to play softer.

[Dark Ice]

Thanks for being honest about the video. First, it was recorded on a little Flip camcorder - the sound on those is not the best - but you are right that overall the drums don't sound that great.

 

The guitars sound ace In fact, the only thing that I dislike about that video is the 'ride cymbal' sound thats absolutely obliterating everything else in the mix, it sounds piercing as hell.

 

If it were me, I'd get some nice sounding smallish cymbals, with a light touch you could still have a really low stage volume and I guarantee it would sound a lot better. Its just that ringing ride sound thats taking down the whole mix imho.

 

What are you using in your acoustic guitar setup? Around here nobodies got any decent moolah invested in acoustic guitar and all I hear are crappy peizo-through-a-pa sounds

 

Steve.

[twostone]

Your drummer sounds like my drummer he owns set of acoustic drum but we never use them why you ask. Load in/out takes about 15 minutes with the Td-20 kit he uses live vs the hour and half it used to take setting up the acoustic drums and mics. Plus additional time for sound checking all the mic'ed drums. Now it's almost plug in play. What e-kit is your drummer using? I own a set of TD-6v we use for practice and it sucks compared to the TD-20 kit. Also I use a Yorkville NX750P as a drum wedge these active cabs put out a lot of volume and low end which our drummer absolutely loves because the kick come thru loud and clear. I have to watch him because he get carried away with the volume because the NX can get just as loud as an acoustic set.

[SirEsquire]

The guitars sound ace In fact, the only thing that I dislike about that video is the 'ride cymbal' sound thats absolutely obliterating everything else in the mix, it sounds piercing as hell. If it were me, I'd get some nice sounding smallish cymbals, with a light touch you could still have a really low stage volume and I guarantee it would sound a lot better. Its just that ringing ride sound thats taking down the whole mix imho. What are you using in your acoustic guitar setup? Around here nobodies got any decent moolah invested in acoustic guitar and all I hear are crappy peizo-through-a-pa sounds Steve.

 

Yeah, I like the idea of having our drummer use some of his acoustic cymbals with his electric kit.

 

As far as the guitars are concerned...

In the video, that's me on the left (standing), I primarily play lead. Our acoustic guitar setup is really quite simple:

I play a Timberline acoustic with installed L.R. Baggs Element Active Pickup, and I just plug the baby right into a quite unspectacular Fender FM 212 R. Our other guitarist plays a Fender acoustic (not sure what pickup) and plugs into his Crate amp.

 

Shameless plug: you can find a couple of my solo vids here:

http://www.youtube.com/user/homemadebrownies

[ned911]

I scanned the thread. You do not mention using a sub. Cannot, I repeat cannot, use Edrums without a sub unless you want to sound bad. You basically have no kick and very little toms without a sub.

 

Our drummer uses a TD6 kick and toms with a Vista Lite snare and depending on the gig real or e-cymbals. Our little ES700P does fine getting the low end out, our SRX718S's do an even better job.

[SirEsquire]

 

I scanned the thread. You do not mention using a sub. Cannot, I repeat cannot, use Edrums without a sub unless you want to sound bad. You basically have no kick and very little toms without a sub. Our drummer uses a TD6 kick and toms with a Vista Lite snare and depending on the gig real or e-cymbals. Our little ES700P does fine getting the low end out, our SRX718S's do an even better job.

 

 

Nope, no sub.

Our drummer had been playing acoustic ever since the band began, but one day he came to practice with an e-drum kit. It was unexpected.

[jwlussow]

We also use the TD20. It sounds incredible. My drummer also bought a bunch of add on kits that blow away the stock Roland ones. He tried the other TD sets and a couple of Yamaha's but they all sounded like electronic drums. The TD20 sounds like an acoustic kit, especially with the proper care in choosing the components.

 

Even the TD20 would sound like crap without subs pushing the low end. No way would we use e-drums without subs.