Members Pawnz Posted March 5, 2005 Members Share Posted March 5, 2005 Hi All, I'm in the market for a board or module with a good Rhodes sound. I've played the Yamaha Motif ES series and was quite impressed the Rhodes sound. While I understand that the Nord Electro2's claim to fame is its Hammond emulation, I hear it does a good job with the Rhodes tones. However, I have yet to get this board under my fingers as of the present date. While I understand this is all very subjective stuff, and I do need to test-drive the Nord Electro2, I would sincerely value your opinions! Thanks! Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members eric Posted March 5, 2005 Members Share Posted March 5, 2005 The Motif ES would be a much more versatile instrument than the Electro, which is really a niche instrument. Would this be your only keyboard or do you have others? My recommendation would depend upon what else you have and what you are looking to do. I have a Yamaha S90, which is the Motif classic sound engine and I also have a Nord Electro. The S90 sound is not that different than the Motif ES. The Yamaha Rhodes are amazing. Lots of varieties and great effects to make them sound like popular recorded Rhodes sounds. The Electro also has killer Rhodes sounds that are a little more raw and realistic. It really is a toss-up. I use them both about 50/50, maybe 60/40 favoring the Electro. I would not want to play a gig without having both these keyboards. I primarily use the Electro for its Hammond sound, which is hard to beat. It also has a killer Clav sound. The Motif Rhodes sound great out of the box. The Electro Rhodes are more like sitting down at a real Rhodes, which requires some additional effects and tweaking to get that "polished album sound" that the Motif achieves due to great programming. The Electro velocity switch points are less apparent than the Motif and I think the Electro cuts a little bit better with its more raw and funky sound. You really cannot go wrong with either. I would honestly go with the Motif for its diversity in other sounds, but if you already have a Rompler-type workstation, adding an Electro could be the ticket. Regards,Eric Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Miket156 Posted March 5, 2005 Members Share Posted March 5, 2005 Eric: Thats a very objective, informed analysis of the Nord Electro and the Motif. Very cool. What else you have in your bag of tricks is very important, as you said. The Motif takes longer to learn, but I'm pretty impressed with the Rhodes sounds on it, and it wears a lot of hats. But then there's COST. The Electro will do great Hammond, Rhodes, and clav sounds, and leave some money in your wallet. If you don't need a workstation, its a nice instrument. Mike T. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members orangefunk Posted March 6, 2005 Members Share Posted March 6, 2005 The MOTIF has the classic Herbie 1974 sound a'la Buttefly to a tee... the Electro has some great rhodes sounds too, although as Eric says they are not too great out of the box... the velocity switch in the samples is noticeable on the MOTIF though... I'm very tempted to get a s/h MOTIF ES once the prices drop as I miss the flute, rhodes and pads sounds... maybe Yamaha will have a new workstation in the pipeline... The MOTIF would make the ideal all in one keyboard to take to rehearsals too... even though live I'd want to use my Promega, Z1 and so forth... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members noisestudios Posted March 6, 2005 Members Share Posted March 6, 2005 Among the Romplers, I'd say Yamaha has the best EP and organ emulations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Ed Wall Posted March 6, 2005 Members Share Posted March 6, 2005 I think Eric has nailed the issue exactly with his response. I own the Electro and have played the S90 and ES alot in the stores so .....I would agree with him. As far as Yamaha as the best rompler for EP's and Organs... EP's....yep Organs....hmmmm .... I would go with the Triton Extreme ( my humble opinion) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members C. Martin Posted March 6, 2005 Members Share Posted March 6, 2005 I prefer Yamaha Rhodes. My P-120 has a superb Rhodes. Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members dan88z Posted March 6, 2005 Members Share Posted March 6, 2005 Chris have you ever spent more than 5 minutes on a real Rhodes or an Electro? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members C. Martin Posted March 6, 2005 Members Share Posted March 6, 2005 Originally posted by dan88z Chris have you ever spent more than 5 minutes on a real Rhodes or an Electro? Hey dan88z, Yes, I have. The electro sounds great, but I prefer the Yamaha Rhodes (P-120, Motif ES, S90,...). It's really a matter of personal preference. The Electro does sound great, but I prefer the Yamaha Rhodes. Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members dan88z Posted March 6, 2005 Members Share Posted March 6, 2005 OK just wondering because most people who prefer the Yamaha epiano sound have never played a real Rhodes for any extensive amt of time. I had a Yamaha for a long time and it's Rhodes didn't compare to the Electro. You could clearly hear the difference between the samples as you hit harder or softer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members C. Martin Posted March 6, 2005 Members Share Posted March 6, 2005 Which Yamaha did you own? Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Pawnz Posted March 6, 2005 Author Members Share Posted March 6, 2005 Wow! Thank you all so much for your thoughtful analysis. Eric, a special "kudos" goes out to you for your response. I actually have a Fender Rhodes in storage to include "Fender" insignia on nameplate, wooden hammers, etc. Head-ripping upper end, barks like a dog in mid-range. The problem is that it most likely needs a new set of tines and perhaps more pragmatically, I do not wish to transport it given the stuff I'm already lugging around: Kurzweil K2600 (bottom tier) Triton Pro (top tier), Alesis QSR, Korg Trinity TR, Roland MKS-80 (Super Jupiter), Roland D-550, and Voce Micro-B II (blown through a Dynacord CLS-222). I'm looking for one more board/module, probably a module, to round out my rig (for the moment!!). Based on all of your responses, I'm probably leaning toward the new Motif ES Rack, although I could go with the Nord Electro2-rack and eliminate the Voce Micro-B/Dynacord with this acquisition. Decisions, decisions! Thanks Again to All, Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members -groovatious- Posted March 7, 2005 Members Share Posted March 7, 2005 I have played a real rhodes extensively, and, with editing, my S90 is much closer to the sound, feel and general vibe of the instrument than the electro. Everyone to their own I also have to mention the Roland Keyboards of the 60s and 70s expansion for the JV/XP line of synths. I programmed the ass off one of the rhodes patches on this card and, hooked up to the right controller equals the S90 and smashes the electro. All in my opinion of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members WhinyLittleRunt Posted March 7, 2005 Members Share Posted March 7, 2005 I think the Electro came closer to the Rhodes that I played. Plus I think the feel of the Electro is nicer and lighter to play. A bit more comfortable for me, personally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members MP3Chuck Posted March 7, 2005 Members Share Posted March 7, 2005 Yamaha does indeed have good Rhodes ... I own a P120, the Rhodes sound great and it comes in handy. But I would still suggest the Electro for its sound and for the built-in effects. Tremolo or a little bit of Overdrive can easily take the sound from "good" to "ballsy." And ballsy is good. The Wah is fun, too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ExplodingBoy Posted March 8, 2005 Members Share Posted March 8, 2005 Personally, I found the Rhodes patches on the Motif ES to be the best I had ever played on a rompler and I owned an Electro 73 for a while as well. The Electro does indeed sound more raw and in some ways more realistic.. but for some reason, the Yamaha sounded more rich, lush and full. The patches "Sweetness" and "Vintage 74" were just beautiful sounding. And those were just the stock patches. I can't imagine how good they could be tweaked. It is true that you could hear the velocity switching, but the Electro has it's own velocity problems as well in that the curve sucks. You have to hit it soo hard to get it to bark sometimes. The fact that you get soo much more with the Motif ES in addition to the amazing Rhodes makes it a clear winner IMHO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members noisestudios Posted March 9, 2005 Members Share Posted March 9, 2005 I think it's sort of undeniable that the Electro has the best Rhodes emulations available (and organ too, outside of a Hammond unit) , but in terms of value and practical use, a Yamaha rompler really has it beat. For half the price of an Electro you can pick up a used EX5 with FDSP Rhodes patches, as well as hundreds of other patches that include some of the best keyboard sampling ever made. With an Electro, you're pretty much limited to EP, organ and piano. And the piano is not very good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members aeon Posted March 9, 2005 Members Share Posted March 9, 2005 The best Rhodes I ever heard from a MOTIF ES was from someone who had "remapped" the Scarbee RSP73 to a 1GB memory space for the MOTIF ES. It took them some time to do, and lord knows it doesn't load that quickly from a USB hard drive, but man, the sound is worth it. cheers,aeon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members neilslade Posted July 26, 2009 Members Share Posted July 26, 2009 I've got a number of original keyboards around here, and a Yamaha Mofif XS8 I've had a MO8 and a SO8 as well. In the other room I've got a like new original 1968 Fender Rhodes Seventy Three, as well as a like new Wurli 200A. Add to this, I've got the Scarbee CEP and EEP-- these are their exceptional Rhodes and Wurli 16 and 24 bit sample programs that run on Kontakt and other platforms. So-- summary. Nothing sounds like the original keyboards-- though the Scarbee and the Yamaha keyboards come extremely close- in that order. One of the unexpected issues is that the original keyboards all make all kinds of NOISE, that you wouldn't think you would miss- but you do. The hiss, the wooden key clunk, and other things. These all add to the personality and texture of the instrument. Believe it or not, when they're primarily gone- as in the synths and to a lesser extent in the samples, you miss them. There are other more subtle things too, very subtle harmonics that are only present in the originals. Scarbee comes exceptionally close, and in a mix, you would be hard pressed to tell the difference-- but a good ear could. The average listener? Heck no. But who are we really trying to please here? Make up your mind. Bear in mind, the Scarbee sounds are $150 for each keyboard, or under $300 for the bundle of both, plus a clavinet. No synth sounds as good as these samples, and the samples are HUGE. You need a good computer to run these, besides having a decent controller keyboard, and a platform like Kontakt to run it-- not a cheap endeavor. I've carefully A/B'd the Yamaha keyboards next to the Scarbee as well, and they run a close 3rd. The thing is, after you've heard a good sampling program like Scarbee- and for that matter, something like Native Instruments Akoustic Piano for acoustic pianos-- you then start to realize how digital sounding even the top of the line Yamaha synth like the XS8 sounds. The deal is, a sampler program run on a big PC has vastly more computing power and sampling memory running than a synth, and thus, the quality of the sound is that much better. For example, Akoustic Piano sounds exactly like an acoustic piano, it is uncanny. With headphones on, you think you are sitting in front of a Steinwaym, or any of the other choices you have with this application. And, the adjustments you can make to the sound are- well- beyond fantastic. You would hardly want to be bothered recording a real piano- certainly not in a home environment, unless your home was a mansion, and you had a huge room and a $50,000 instrument. There would be no point. But, there is a more detectable difference between the Scarbee and the real Rhodes and Wurlis. The Scarbee Rhodes is clearly the better of the two- it is EXTREMELY close to the real deal, perhaps because a Rhodes piano waveform is inherently a little simpler than the Wurli. I am very hard pressed to tell the difference between the Scarbee Rhodes and the real Rhodes, except that the Scarbee is CONSIDERABLY cleaner and quieter. But as I mentioned, this is not necessarily entirely desirable. It is missing a teeny tiny bit of SOMETHING, but nearly negligibly so. The huge upside of using Scarbee, or for that matter a synth, is that recording the thing is essentially childs play. No mikes, no hassles, perfect recording every time, without waking the kids. But it's a trade off- you lose a little bit of reality by departing from the reality of the physical world. The Scarbee Wurlitzer is not quite as convincing as the Rhodes, although it is again, another level higher than the Yamaha. The Yamaha Wurlizer, and every other synth I've tried, only approaches the real thing, albeit close. There is a warmth and a beautiful richness to the real instrument that is clearly missed when you play the real thing next to the Yamaha, and even the Scarbee. That being said, I can not imagine any other synth portable keyboard sounds better at emulating the Rhodes and Wurli than the Yamaha XS8--- and yes, I've played Nord, and Korg. Nord is nice-- but it ain't the Yamaha. Walk into Guitar Center and A/B them-- it's pretty apparent quickly. Realize that the XS8, for example, has a full 100MB more sample memory to work with, so this shouldn't come as a shock. The lower priced Yamaha boards like the MO8 and the SO8 have essentially the same waveset as the newest flagship XS8-- you would be hard pressed to tell any difference if there is any at all. There are of course other features that set the Yamaha keyboards apart from each other (memory for example), but the Rhodes and Wurli basic sounds are essentially the same from one Yamaha keyboard to the other. If budget is tight, and you want the best acoustic pianos, and electric pianos- I don't see how you can beat the Yamaha. Of course, you may be considering other factors-- portability, real time tweaking-- and this may steer you in another direction, like towards a Nord if these factors are more important to you. The Yamahas sound great-- and they have the best action on the planet-- but they're big and heavy-- all that good sound and touch comes at a physical cost. So, there you have it from a guy who has tried em all. The Brain book and Music Store http://www.neilslade.com/order.html http://www.neilslade.com/cds.html Neil http://www.BrainRadar.com http://www.EasyPaintYourCar.com http://www.InkJetHelper.com http://www.MyOwnPublishing.com http://www.neilslade.com/Papers/Painting.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Tomkeen Posted July 26, 2009 Members Share Posted July 26, 2009 Welcome to 2005 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Roald Posted July 26, 2009 Members Share Posted July 26, 2009 another thing to keep in mind is that with the Electro, you are forced to think like a rhodes player: you just choose one of the available rhodes-type/setups (rhodes-does-not-equal-rhodes! depending on how the tines and pickups are set up the sound changes massively!) and then just set EQ and add effects. There is no menus, no screen, just effect on-off buttons and knobs. I recently played a Motif on a session and I was so missing the ability to switch the phaser on and off, or add a bit of wahwah. And...I had to "search" for a sound, which I normally would not do: on the Nord WYSIWYG from all leds and knobs! I agree both sound great, yam more polished, nord more "breathing", but for the UI and "oldschool way of working" it is Nord hands down for me. I have mine since 2001 (the real Rhodes came in 2003 ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Roald Posted July 26, 2009 Members Share Posted July 26, 2009 by the way, I disagree with a "good ear hearing that Scarbee is fake in a recording". You don't. Maybe you heard it because your Rhodes was not set up properly and uniformly, or not earthed thoroughly (a real Rhodes should not have funny hum or rattling stuff!) In playing, it is different to have a real rhodes and a real rhodes is inspiring and fun. But once recorded, there is absolutely no difference between real and Scarbee IMHO. And I say that is a true Rhodes devotee... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members joemmi Posted July 26, 2009 Members Share Posted July 26, 2009 Realize that the XS8, for example, has a full 100MB more sample memory to work with, so this shouldn't come as a shock. Hi Neil, I agree the XS8 has a great Rhodes sound, (don't like PCs too much so I'll never use Scarbees live). And one great advantage is that you get some great sounding presets and just start jamming.The Nord on the other hand really takes time and effort to get a good sound out of the naked samples, but you get there!But I am not sure about the 100MB more sample library-does-the-trick argument.I mean, what size is the Rhodes samples on the XS8? Pretty sure it ain't not much to do with the AVAILABLE memory size, but don't know the actual size, you know? At the Nords, the Rhodes samples tke between 6 and 9 MB which is nothing, no idea how they do it. Would be interested to know the different sample size in the Yammies or Rolands. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members -groovatious- Posted July 26, 2009 Members Share Posted July 26, 2009 Haha - such an old thread! I just read my post from 2005! Haha - I'm now a devoted Nord Electro user. They all sound great tho. All completely different flavors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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