Should I practice strict triplets for swing piano?

[ChinaMoBro1]

When i play or hear strict triplets, they don't sound like swing to me at all. But during last gig, the bassist , who's older and more experienced in jazz, told me to practise that way. Should I do so??I know my comping and solo might be problematic, but my ears tell me that one should not swing with strict triplets..Please give me your opinion, thank you in advance.

[niacin]

no.

[wikwox]

Swing is syncopated, triplets are not. A better but imperfect analogy would be a dotted eigth note followed by a sixteenth. Listen to bop, bebop etc. and you should get a feel for it.

[ChinaMoBro1]

it's my fault that I didn't state the question clear.

Should I practise in the following way?That is to play the first eighth note in the pair 2 times as long as the the second one, in a very accurate manner? Does this help to build a correct swing feel?

[mrcpro]

There's always a place for everything, and triplits... both sixteenth and quarter note variety, can be useful as contrast thrown in once in a while. But full-time... they're best reserved for "Blueberry Hill".

[ChinaMoBro1]

I read somewhere that it's between straight eighth notes and syncopated triplets..A bit confused now..

[niacin]

swing is not triplets or syncopated triplets. There's a thread from a while ago that discusses swing v.s. shuffle and includes some studies that actually measured the rhythmic placing of notes by a number of different drummers.

 

Forget triplets. Forget dotted rhythms. Throw on a CD of Oscar Peterson or Charlie Parker. That is swing. It is not subject to western musical notation except by vague approximation.

[jazzwee]

chinamobro1, swing eights (which is what you are talking about here), is not based on a fixed proportion of 2:1 as you suggest (Length of first 8th note:Length of second 8th note).

 

It depends on the tempo. On a slower tune, for example 120 BPM, you will be closer to 2:1. By the time you get to a faster tempo the ratio will get closer to 1:1.

 

The reference to the triplet "feel" is because of the 2:1 ratio. So listen to various jazz tunes at different tempos and you will understand what I'm talking about.

[ChinaMoBro1]

Thank you folks, now i'm confirmed that my original understanding may be close to the correct answer. I did notice it's neither 2:1 nor 1:1 most of the time , and some of my other friends including 2 western guys feel my swing is alright.

I did see there's an early post on swing rhythm, and I 've copied and read it thorouthly.

But I was still puzzled when my bandmates raised the problem to me.

Thank you again.

[Outkaster]

 

Originally posted by niacin swing is not triplets or syncopated triplets. There's a thread from a while ago that discusses swing v.s. shuffle and includes some studies that actually measured the rhythmic placing of notes by a number of different drummers. Forget triplets. Forget dotted rhythms. Throw on a CD of Oscar Peterson or Charlie Parker. That is swing. It is not subject to western musical notation except by vague approximation.

 

 

Yes that is true. Study some Stride piano as well. You can practice excercies like that but it does not mean it will neccesarily improve that style of music because it is based on feel.

[TheFoosa]

Originally posted by wikwox Swing is syncopated, triplets are not. A better but imperfect analogy would be a dotted eigth note followed by a sixteenth. Listen to bop, bebop etc. and you should get a feel for it.

 

 

Incorrect.

 

It is equivalent of 8th note triplets, where you are playing the first and last partial of each group of 3. That is if you do "strict" swing...a lot of the time you'll hear people really stretching and bending the time feel...but these are people who can do whatever the {censored} they want.

 

 

Dolphin Dance (Herbie Hancock) is a good example of this. The song is at a slow med. tempo, so with each quartet note you can think in triplets and listen to how Tony plays the ride cymbal and how the notes of the melody fall on the first and third partials. Then you get to Herbie's solo, and even though you would notate much of it as 8th notes in this style, they aren't falling exaclty on these beats, because he is taking a lot of liberties in the time feel. Because he's Herbie and he can do that, and he can make it sound bitchin'.

 

 

 

But as jazzwee said, as you approach faster tempos, you wind up getting closer to straight 8's. Somewhere between 200 and 240 is where this line lies, I think, and it also depends on the feel that the band is going for.

 

 

 

 

Practice triplets, and practice swung 8th notes (first and last partials of triplets). Both will be used a lot.

 

 

 

 

Best way to learn to swing is to listen to people who do swing.

[wendibourne]

Hi - don't know if anyone looks at this conversation anymore, but I did!! I thought you might want to know about Swing Week at Augusta (www.augustaheritage.com/swing) - where you can study with the wonderful Robert Redd for 5 mornings in a row (2.5 hours each day) and have a great time listening to, playing and even dancing to GREAT SWING MUSIC every afternoon and evening. Its July 13-18, 2008 at a college campus in Elkins West Virginia. Good luck with those swing 8ths!