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  • Hi Craig,



    Thanks for the review and helpful information in this thread.



    I picked up my Octa-Capture a couple of weeks ago and so far am very happy with it. However, Sonar X1 can't see the ASIO driver for it - it can only see the Octa-Capture inputs and outputs if I select WDM/KS, WASAPI or MME (32-Bit) for driver mode on the "Playback and Recording" tab in preferences. WDM/KS is working fine for now I guess.



    The thing is, I know ASIO is there because Guitar Rig 4 LE that came with Sonar X1 Producer sees the ASIO driver for the Octa-Capture and works perfectly with it.



    I did a new clean install of both Sonar and the Octa-Capture on a new Win7/64-bit box, with the X1a and X1b updates as well as the build 255 hotfix added before ever starting Sonar for the first time. So I can't say whether ASIO was visible in between any of the installation steps.



    Can you suggest any tips to try to get Sonar to see the ASIO driver for the Octa-Capture? I can't seem to find anything in the Cakewalk forums on this issue other than the notes on the X1b update saying that X1b supposedly fixed the problem. Maybe hotfix build 255 broke the X1b fix and I should roll it back?





    J

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    • Quote Originally Posted by jman979
      View Post

      Hi Craig,



      Thanks for the review and helpful information in this thread.



      I picked up my Octa-Capture a couple of weeks ago and so far am very happy with it. However, Sonar X1 can't see the ASIO driver for it - it can only see the Octa-Capture inputs and outputs if I select WDM/KS, WASAPI or MME (32-Bit) for driver mode on the "Playback and Recording" tab in preferences. WDM/KS is working fine for now I guess.




      That is really, really strange, especially because the system and software level you're describing is virtually identical to what I'm using, and it sees the Octa-Capture ASIO just fine. I assume you mean it's not there at all, not just grayed out...right?



      I would suggest doing a system reset of the Octa-Capture. It may somehow have gotten into Expansion mode and as it doesn't see anything to expand on, it doesn't know what to do. The only time I had a total head-scratch moment with the OC was when I hit wrong things. The system reset solved it.



      Also, I'm sure you know this but there are separate 32 and 64-bit drivers...are you sure you got the drivers from the right folder? Also, you have to follow the instructions carefully about connecting the OC only when instructed to do so. It sounds like you probably know all that, but I figure it doesn't hurt to mention it.
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      • Craig - Fantastic information here - thank you so much. Like you used to, I still have a full EMU 1820M setup (2 PCI) cards on a studio PC with a decent Quad cord processor, 8 Gig of RAM and running Windows 7 64bit along with Sonar X1 PE 64bit. I cannot say that it is a very stable system. Blue Screens of Death (typically says something about an IRQ issue with the audio driver) are not an uncommon occurrence and I frequently have to either restart Sonar or reboot to keep things working if I unload certain songs (I think its the TelePort server that often seems to be at the heart of this though I'm not certain). I do have the latest EMU Drivers loaded. I primarily record using VST's/VSTI's (mix of 64 and 32 bit including RealGuitar, SampleTank 2XL) and I do record vocals monitoring effects through the PC.



        That said, my questions are:

        (1) can I expect latency to be as good or better, or at worst imperceptibly slower, than what I am experiencing with my current system?

        (2) can I expect my system to operate in a much more stable manner (No BSODs, and reboots or Sonar restarts required)?

        (3) What have you seen as the advantages and disadvantages of moving from a EMU 1820m based setup to the Octo-Capture based setup?

        (4) Any thoughts on doing the actual conversion? I would prefer not to have to do a complete system rebuild, but instead just remove the 1820 h/w, uninstall the 1820m drivers and software and then go through the Octa-capture installation. Any thoughts on this?



        Thanks in advance for any insight you can provide here. This review has been a fascinating read!

        Comment








        • Quote Originally Posted by esierka
          View Post

          (1) can I expect latency to be as good or better, or at worst imperceptibly slower, than what I am experiencing with my current system?




          I'm not sure it's a fair contest, because last time I checked, the E-Mu Windows 7 drivers were still listed as being in beta. Frankly, it was frustration with some aspects of the system that caused me to switch to the Octa-Capture, and perhaps when the E-Mu drivers are finalized various stability issues will be fixed. I am getting lower latency with the OC than I did with the 1820 when it ran under 32-bit XP, but haven't done a head-to-head 64-bit comparison.








          (2) can I expect my system to operate in a much more stable manner (No BSODs, and reboots or Sonar restarts required)?



          No BSODs at all, and we're talking months and months of constant use. The OC has been extremely stable, even when running it in expanded mode. I believe any Sonar restarts I've had to do relate to Sonar abuse on my part, not the OC. But I should also add that as with many programs I run, I'm often one step ahead of what the public is using, so I'm more likely to encounter problems - in fact companies want me to encounter problems, and file bug reports!








          (3) What have you seen as the advantages and disadvantages of moving from a EMU 1820m based setup to the Octo-Capture based setup?



          1820 advantages: PCI boards will always have a slight performance edge compared to going through another layer, as happens with USB or FireWire. Also, the OC has no ADAT light-pipe I/O although that hasn't been an issue for me, as the V-Studio - which does have ADAT I/O - can work with the OC. The 1820 has two MIDI ports, and a phono input. Finally, the 1820 includes effects but I must say I never found them all that useful as the technology progressed, and they don't work over 48kHz.



          OC advantages: Frees up a PCI slot in your computer (less heat, too), and can move among computers easily. Eight mic pres - two ins just doesn't cut it for a lot of applications, and the combo jacks accomodate line level ins when you're not using mics. I prefer the OC mic pres, which to my ears have a more "open" sound. The mixer applet is more straightforward. The onboard reverb DSP is great for putting some reverb in the cans when doing overdubs. Finally, this may sound frivolous, but the "auto-sense" feature is a real time-saver. When doing tasks like narration I don't even look at the meters any more, I just say "go" and start recording.








          (4) Any thoughts on doing the actual conversion? I would prefer not to have to do a complete system rebuild, but instead just remove the 1820 h/w, uninstall the 1820m drivers and software and then go through the Octa-capture installation. Any thoughts on this?



          That's exactly what I did, and it worked for me with no issues. Just remember to unplug the computer before pulling out the card



          Follow the OC instructions exactly, though; with Windows, don't plug it in until you're asked to do so.



          For a while I had them both running, but over time the 1820 just became redundant. For example, having two 5-pin DIN MIDI ports was important when I first got the 1820 - but now, with so much gear doing MIDI-over-USB, one MIDI port handles my needs. The OC doesn't have word clock, but I don't have enough gear any more where that matters. The OC is a simpler unit, yet handles what I need; I like the sound quality of the mic pres, and the drivers just hum along and never give me any trouble.








          Thanks in advance for any insight you can provide here. This review has been a fascinating read!



          Glad you liked the review! I think you can draw your own conclusions that the "official" part of this review ended quite a while ago, yet the OC is still connected and it's what I'm using as my main interface. With my Windows desktop machine, the only time I use a different interface is:

          • If I'm using the full V-Studio system with the Fantom synth and VS-700C

          • I'm laying down tracks with the Firebird X (which requires using Gibson's G-Node interface if you want to take advantage of features like the Editor and the hex outputs)

          • If I'm running Pro Tools, in which case I use the Eleven Rack most of the time because it's just so effing cool

          I believe in dedicating interfaces to particular machines, so I use different interfaces for my Mac and PCAL Vista-64 laptop.
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          • Craig - A great big, giant Thank You for providing such a quick, thorough response. I think this is the way I'm going to go and your information was very helpful in coming to this conclusion. You Rock!!!!

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            • yesterday bought the octacapture to jamming studio, man, that auto-sense feature is really a plus. great results, needn't worry about clipping. set the compressor for some drum mics, and that's it

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              • Quote Originally Posted by Anderton
                View Post

                My first attempt was not successful because I looked in the Octa-Capture manual about how to do expansion, and figured I'd make the Octa-Capture the timing master and slave the VS-700R to it. However, that's not the way to go. I did something that disconnected USB from the VS-700R, and thought I'd have to re-install the driver.




                I was wondering this for a while: When expanding the vs700r with the OC, is it possible to use the 700r as the timing master? My concern is I would like to use the aes input on the vs700r for two mic pres, what is not possible when it is slaved to the OC. This way, I could connect my 10 mics in the vs700r for the drums and mix it through its stereo mixer for cue mix.



                Another thing, please of course , can the s/pdif cable that is used for clock sync can carry audio signal as well? I mean, could I send a direct mix from master to slave while sending the clock?



                Thanks a lot!

                Comment


                • Well based on Craig's outstanding review, I too migrated from the EMU 1820m to the OctaCapture. I have one item I'm still trying to resolve as described in the ticket i just opened with Roland/Cakewalk. Here is a copy of the support request:



                  Just got a new Octa-Capture and am running and pretty loaded system with Sonar X1c. I was playing around with different settings trying to optimize performance/latency. I originally found that running at 44.1, with ASIO set at the lowest setting 48 samples (setting 2) on the OCTA-CAPTURE Drivers Settings) box and in the Playback and Recording tab under preferences with the Driver Mode set to ASIO, I was getting pops and clicks. So I changed the Driver Mode to WASAPI and my performance was much better with no pops/clicks (Might have been at 64 samples instead of 48). Unfortunately, when I played around with settings a few more times and eventually went to go back to WASAPI as the driver mode, I started to get the error: "Unable to open audio playback device. Device may not support the current projects's audio format or may be in use."



                  What did I do wrong and what can I do to get the wonderful WASAPI working again so that my performance is optimal?



                  I have also tried changing the driver settings and still get some pops and clicks at 64 samples (just running one audio track with a few pluggins and a few instruments under a 64bit version of Kontakt 4, plus EZDrummer 64bit - in all maybe 5-6 tracks). I can't get the pops and clicks to stop until I go to 96 buffers and the ASIO driver mode (RTL reported at just over 12ms and I would like to get to under 10 if possible). And again, I can't get the thing to run at all right now under WASAPI. WDM does not perform as well as ASIO.



                  Would really like to understand how to best configure my system for lowest latency (I play lots of softsynths and monitor vocals live) with good sability - what would you suggest? Which usually works best in Driver Mode: ASIO, WASAPI, WDM? And I would really like to understand what it would take to get the WASAPI driver to at least work so I can try it."



                  Thanks to anyone who can chime in!

                  Comment


                  • Lowest possible latency relates highly to processor speed and what other services you have running. My internet is intermittent due to lines being damaged by thunderstorms, but tell us more about your system and when I can post some recommendations, I will.



                    Also considering resetting the Octa-Capture so you start with a "clean slate" after your various experiments
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                    • Quote Originally Posted by Dyonight
                      View Post

                      I was wondering this for a while: When expanding the vs700r with the OC, is it possible to use the 700r as the timing master? My concern is I would like to use the aes input on the vs700r for two mic pres, what is not possible when it is slaved to the OC. This way, I could connect my 10 mics in the vs700r for the drums and mix it through its stereo mixer for cue mix.



                      Another thing, please of course , can the s/pdif cable that is used for clock sync can carry audio signal as well? I mean, could I send a direct mix from master to slave while sending the clock?



                      Thanks a lot!




                      So, any input on this? Roland do not respond either... is my question too stupid or or no one on earth knows? I looked at the manuel carefully and got no hint for this option.



                      Thanks!

                      Comment








                      • Quote Originally Posted by Dyonight
                        View Post

                        So, any input on this? Roland do not respond either... is my question too stupid or or no one on earth knows? I looked at the manuel carefully and got no hint for this option.



                        Thanks!




                        I need to set it back up with the cascaded configuration. I had to do some interface reviews and of course, that meant tearing everything apart One of the disadvantages of reviewing gear is that my setup is always in a state of flux...



                        However, I have a remix project to do this weekend, which means using the V-Studio so I'll be setting it up. I'll see if I can get you some answers.
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                        • Thanks a lot, you're a very helpful guy!



                          That being said, I know you're a busy man and I absolutely can understand if you don't have time (or simply forget) to test this setup.



                          If you do try out of curiosity, then nice I really would like to know too! If not, then I'll test it myself when I'll get it, ( this year I hope...), and find a work around if I can't have it do what I would like.



                          Either way, thanks a lot for your time and patience!

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                          • Well I was a little optimistic...I never got to mixing, I had a bunch of edits/fixes I had to do to individual tracks, and I still have a few more to go.



                            To be specific, I wanted to replace the electronic drums with real drums, but keep the original electronic kicks. However...the original kicks were quantized, and I wanted to snap them to loops of real drums (by Nashville drummer Greg Morrow, who has tremendous feel and power). It would be an insult to music to quantize Greg! So that meant using AudioSnap to place transient markers on Greg's part to create a "humanized" grid to which the kicks could snap.



                            The difference was pretty amazing. Now I need to take some bass notes and snap them to Greg as well, as the bass was overdubbed to a click.



                            But I will have to mix this at some point ;-)
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                            • Quote Originally Posted by Dyonight
                              View Post

                              I was wondering this for a while: When expanding the vs700r with the OC, is it possible to use the 700r as the timing master? My concern is I would like to use the aes input on the vs700r for two mic pres, what is not possible when it is slaved to the OC. This way, I could connect my 10 mics in the vs700r for the drums and mix it through its stereo mixer for cue mix.



                              Another thing, please of course , can the s/pdif cable that is used for clock sync can carry audio signal as well? I mean, could I send a direct mix from master to slave while sending the clock?



                              Thanks a lot!




                              Okay...I finally have your answer for you.



                              First, unless Roland knows something I don't, the Octa-Capture has to be the timing master, and the VS-700 has to be the timing slave.



                              Second, you can use the SPDIF connection to carry audio. I verified this by sending an output from Sonar though the Octa-Capture SPDIF out, inserting a second track, and setting its input to the VS-700 SPDIF in. The second track received the audio no problem, and by assigning its output to the VS-700 headphones jack, I could monitor the signal.



                              So there you have it
                              CHECK IT OUT: Lilianna!, my latest song, is now streamable from YouTube.

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                              • Hi,



                                I read your reviews of the interfaces, they are really helpful, but since I am an international student here, could hardly understand all of those, so I need some help. I am using Macbook Pro, blue kiwi mic, has logic pro installed, and thinking of getting pro tools also. I want to get an interface around 400~600 dollars, what would you suggest?I was looking at this Roland Octa-Capture Interface, and also Mbox pro. The Mbox's reviews are horrible.. For me, I care about the clearness of the sound and the sound quality. Also I hope it is not too hard to use.. Hope you could respond me

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