Members Godsguitarist73 Posted November 17, 2003 Members Share Posted November 17, 2003 Hey guys! In lieu of my "making our own cables" post, I was thinking how nice it would be to have one cable going to our triamped mains (All carvin drivers: T1100 on top, 15" mid (a little overkill it seems, but I didn't build 'em) and an 18" for subs ) and then I realized that there are multiple-pole Speakons out there. First off, is this practical to try? Or are there going to be WAY too many expenses? Ok, so if we choose to try this... if nothing else eliminate ONE cable by just using a 4-pole speakon for the highs and mids, where do we get the cable? I'm thinking this is probably going to have to be some MASSIVE cable (we'll be running about 500 watts to the subs, 300 to mids, and around 150 to the highs) because of 6 conductors. Anyone know who makes this cable? I'm just pondering this right now. I'm sick of the speaker cable we have now... it's the standard two-strand stuff (12GA) from Home Depot. It works, but I would just like to simplify things (I think it will simplify... lol) and utilize Speakons for what they were intended for (what else would you do with an 8 pole connector? ). Thanks!! Brandon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMS Author Craig Vecchione Posted November 17, 2003 CMS Author Share Posted November 17, 2003 Originally posted by Audiopile 12-4 or 13-4 will be just fine. You'll want to go with an SO type cable or maybe and SJOW type. 12 or 13-6 is difficult to find if you want to run 8 pin. 12 or 13-8 is fairly common.Question/comment: Anyone know who makes this cable?Answer: Sure, most of the mainstream cable manufactures build suitable cable. There's plenty to choose from. Again, this is something I stock, or I'd be happy to point you to other mainstream vendors and manufactures.Question/comment: I'm just pondering this right now. I'm sick of the speaker cable we have now... it's the standard two-strand stuff (12GA) from Home Depot.Answer: Been there, done that, wore the tee shirt and threw it away... and I'll never go back. Mark, if I'm reading this right, you're recommending SO and/or SJ type cables, however you're implying that what can be had at Home Depot type places is inferior. What's the difference between the SO/SJ cable from HD and what you offer? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Godsguitarist73 Posted November 17, 2003 Author Members Share Posted November 17, 2003 Mark, thanks once again for your awesome insight. What's your price on an 8 conductor 40 to 50 feet? I noticed you don't have the prices accessable on your site. Also, how should we get this stuff to the cable from the power amps? I assume I could be mounting a speakon to a blank rack panel, mounting it on the back, and running all the indivicual cables to it from the amps. Oh, and we are DEFINITELY looking to reduce the time of setup/breakdown. There are only about 7 of us, usually and we have a decent rig (we're trying to get insurance on our bus, but until then it takes 2 pickup trucks and 3 cars to get all of our crap in... heh) It may be a little while before we actually do this because we've still got other expenses and what not, but it's definitely something I want to do and I'll talk to the rest of the band into it... lol. Thanks! Brandon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMS Author Craig Vecchione Posted November 17, 2003 CMS Author Share Posted November 17, 2003 Originally posted by Audiopile I recommended SO or SJOW, not SJ.Typically the Home Depot places sell SJTW or similar wire. There's nothing wrong with that type of wire except:1) It doesn't lay very nice unless it's pretty warm. This is partially due to the insulation material used, plus typically the extension cord stuff isn't as finely stranded.2) Typically the 12ga. or 14 ga. is only available in a 3 conductor version, when what's needed is either 2 conductor, 4 conductor, 6 conductor, or 8 conductor.3) Typically the 12-3 stuff is about 45 cents a foot. My 12-2 is 38 cents a foot, and the 13-2 is 35 cents a foot.4) Typically the Home Depot extension cords come in colors like: Hot Yellow, Hot Pink, Hot Green, Hot Orange... any color except black.So, other than the fact that the consumer grade extension cord handles and lays bad, has the wrong number of conductors, is typically more expensive, and looks bad on stage... I guess it's fine.However, that wasn't my point. I am a multipin advocate and I try to avoid stringing one cord to one item if a multipin set-up is a viable alternative. My rig used to be wired with seperate cables going to each cabinet... all banana's and 1/4" equipped 14-2. I won't go back to that method of wiring again on my bi-amped and tri-amped cabs. I don't think Home Depot sells Speakon or Cannon EP stuff. If multipin speaker cables are superior to single line speaker cable, then what I sell is superior to what Home Depot sells... since Home Depot doesn't sell multipin speaker cables and patch bay making materials. HD does indeed sell bulk rubber-jacketed and insulated cable. In black, not fancy fluorescents. As SJO, SJOW, SO, etc, in 12-2, 12-3, 12-4. I've asked, and they can get 12-6. A 250' roll of 12-4 SJOW was $110 last time I checked. What I was asking was how yours is better than theirs, though I think you were perhaps assuming that all they had was thermoplastic consumer extension cords? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Godsguitarist73 Posted November 17, 2003 Author Members Share Posted November 17, 2003 And, for what it's worth, we are at that "12-2, bannana plug to 1/4" stage" and that's what I'm trying to get out of. I would MUCH rather have one cable. Plus, I love building some of this stuff, such as the patchbay and what not. It's just my thing to build my own stuff, such as computers, servers, and networks. Anyways, thanks again. Mark, I'm going to PM you. Oh, and if anyone can tell me where I can find 12-6 or 8 cable, please do share. Thanks! Brandon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Godsguitarist73 Posted November 17, 2003 Author Members Share Posted November 17, 2003 Oh, another question... is this cable offered as stranded or is it solid only? I also just remembered I have a cousin who is an industrial engineer with his own company, so he may be able to hook me up. Anyways, thanks again. Brandon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMS Author Craig Vecchione Posted November 17, 2003 CMS Author Share Posted November 17, 2003 Originally posted by Godsguitarist73 Oh, another question... is this cable offered as stranded or is it solid only? I also just remembered I have a cousin who is an industrial engineer with his own company, so he may be able to hook me up. Anyways, thanks again. Brandon Stranded only....solid can't be used for portable cabling. Just try bending some 12-3 NM-B (Romex) and you've got the general idea.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Godsguitarist73 Posted November 17, 2003 Author Members Share Posted November 17, 2003 lol... ok, thanks. Makes sense. Brandon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members RickJ Posted November 17, 2003 Members Share Posted November 17, 2003 We learned a quick and easy lesson from the Disney World (Orlando) folks: No consumer-grade cabling allowed on any stage at any time. At first, I understood that to mean "No orange extension cords, and no $5 power strips." (Both outlawed.) What it really means is, soundcos who show up with consumer gear will be refused at the door. It was a major shock to me & my crew at the time, but electrical wiring is nothing to mess with. The same applies to speakers and any other cabling. Heck, people -- the cables are our only link to the performers. Would you always want to use only the best? (No, not Monster or even Mogami or other consumer audiophile krappe -- just good, down-home, pick-it-up-and-it-weighs-a-ton cables!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMS Author Craig Vecchione Posted November 17, 2003 CMS Author Share Posted November 17, 2003 Originally posted by Audiopile The HD SO, SJOW, etc... 12-2 etc... is just fine. Sometimes the 110v extension cord stuff is courser stranded than some dedicated speaker wire, and therefore some finer stranded speaker cables lay and coil a little nicer... but is more difficult to assemble ends on. I don't like the SJOW stuff quite as well because the outer casing is more "plyable" I guess you'd call it and bar floor gak is seemingly more difficult to clean off.Nothing wrong with a price of $110 for 250ft. of 12-4 SJOW (and no shipping). If you like the way it feels and lays... and the color's ok... then there you go. I know what you mean about the W-rated cable jackets....they seem to be made a little softer so they don't get too hard in cold outdoor conditions, but this also makes them seem to bond on a molecular level with floor munge...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members coolmanchad Posted November 18, 2003 Members Share Posted November 18, 2003 what would it cost to wire up the amp rack(s) to get them done professionally? how do you wire up the cabinets then to accept the 8 pole speakon connector? do you replace the connectors in the box? how about including the sub power into that and running a jumper to the subs? sorry for all the questions, just wanting to make setting up and tear down with the new rig after the first of the year to be quick easy and simple. thanks for answers. chad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted November 18, 2003 Members Share Posted November 18, 2003 S and SO may have too big of an outside diameter to fit some of the connectors available, even with the larger inserts. I prefer the SJ, SJO, SJOW and the speaker specific cable like what Mark sells over S & SO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMS Author Craig Vecchione Posted November 18, 2003 CMS Author Share Posted November 18, 2003 Originally posted by agedhorse S and SO may have too big of an outside diameter to fit some of the connectors available, even with the larger inserts.I prefer the SJ, SJO, SJOW and the speaker specific cable like what Mark sells over S & SO. Agreed, 12-4 SO (for that matter, any 600v cable variety) is too big for some Speakon connectors. Make a nice power cord. For those not in the know, any cable without a "J" in the type is 600v service, those with a "J" are classified "junior" service, for 300v. The only difference is the thickness of the insulation and jacketing. "T" means Thermoplastic insulation and jacketing. This is the hard plastic stuff you usually cut with your hedge trimmer. "O" means oil resistant jacket. "OO" means oil resistant jacket and insulation. "W" means CSA-approved for indoor-outdoor use. "W-A" means approved for indoor-outdoor use by UL. For most sound reinforcement speaker cable use, type SJ is fine. It's got rubber insulation and jacketing, and is soft and pliable enough to handle easily. If you need oil or weather resistance, you can add these to the spec: SJO, SJOW, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Godsguitarist73 Posted November 27, 2003 Author Members Share Posted November 27, 2003 Good news... I will ask my cousin tomorrow at Thanksgiving Dinner about his prices, but I have a friend whose parents own a hotel in a local tourist town (Pigeon Forge, if anyone has ever heard of it) and he also helps build houses and said that he think he may have extra and, if nothing else, may be ordering another spool soon and can possibly get me the cable for .20 to .25 a foot!!! WOOHOO!!! lol... I hope he's able to... I'll be on cloud 9... heh. Anyways, I'll let you guys know how it goes. Brandon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted November 27, 2003 Members Share Posted November 27, 2003 Originally posted by Godsguitarist73 Good news... I will ask my cousin tomorrow at Thanksgiving Dinner about his prices, but I have a friend whose parents own a hotel in a local tourist town (Pigeon Forge, if anyone has ever heard of it) and he also helps build houses and said that he think he may have extra and, if nothing else, may be ordering another spool soon and can possibly get me the cable for .20 to .25 a foot!!! WOOHOO!!! lol... I hope he's able to... I'll be on cloud 9... heh. Anyways, I'll let you guys know how it goes. Brandon Even in large quantities, a legit price for 12-4 SJanything is going to run a minimum of $0.45/foot. If you can find somebody that has surplus (eg. it has no value to them) than you might be able to negotiate a cheaper price. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members bassknave Posted November 27, 2003 Members Share Posted November 27, 2003 Originally posted by coolmanchad what would it cost to wire up the amp rack(s) to get them done professionally? Depends--really no way to answer that one how do you wire up the cabinets then to accept the 8 pole speakon connector? I usually use 16/2 or 18/2 zip with 0.187 QD crimp-ons to mate with the Speakon panel connector. In my current project: A) One 8-pole panel connector (NL8MPR) mounts on the back of one pair of sub cabs. B) On the same sub cabs are a pair of 4-pole NL4MPs C) On the other pair of subs are a pair of 4-pole NL4MPs Pair 1+/1- goes to the internal drivers. Pair 2+/2- loops up to the top NL4MP 4-pole connector, which jumpers to one top box. (Pins 2+/2- are connected in the top box. 1+/1- are NC. Pair 3+/3- connects to pin 1+/1- on the bottom NL4MP. Pair 4+/4- connects to pin 2+/2- on the bottom NL4MP. This jumpers to the other sub cab, which has 2 NL4MP connectors. In the other cab, Pair 1+/1- on the bottom NL4MP goes direct to the sub drivers. Pair 2+/2- on the bottom NL4MP goes direct to pair 2+/2- on the top NL4MP (pair 1=/1- are NC here, too. The other pair of top boxes connects via jumpers--2+/2- are wired in that box--1+/1-are NC. The system hooks up with one 4-pair hose to a single sub on each side. The bottom NL4MPs on the subs interconnnect via jumper. The top NL4MP on each sub ties to a the top box. (it's a 4/4 system). do you replace the connectors in the box? IIWY, I'd wire the 8-pole to your sub, then add a NL4MP or NL4MPR (round base) to the cabinet. Assuming your tops are two-way, I'd use NL4 to interconnect 'em. The mid would go to 1+/1-; the compression driver would go to 2+/2-. Put 2 NL4s on your top box, parallelled. Use wire nuts to make the necessary "y" connections, and use cable ties as strain relief. how about including the sub power into that and running a jumper to the subs? See above sorry for all the questions, just wanting to make setting up and tear down with the new rig after the first of the year to be quick easy and simple. thanks for answers. chad No prob. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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